Gauge 1 1/32 and 10mm scale.

[Knuckles]

Hello everyone.

 

Progress has been made and there is now a loco body of the Extended Tank E2 for anyone who may want it in both 10mm scale and 9.525 scale.

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/XVZ5R73Q3/9-5mm-lb-scr-e2-extended-tanks?optionId=64914735

https://www.shapeways.com/product/HGZLKWCJW/10mm-lb-scr-e2-extended-tanks?optionId=64894928

 

 

 

I've almost finished both chassis for them (fixed axle, still working on compo and spring provisions as a side project for later) working to these....

 

&

 

As you can see there are notes I added at the top right so I have made the axle holes 6.3mm in diameter. I read the axles are often 6.35 so made them a bit smaller. Obviously a bush will take room up so as usual a bit of reaming should ensure a snug fit.

 

 

What I'm stuck on is the frame widths. What do people tend to use because the internet seems to not want to reveal this bit of info.

 

I know it can vary depending on side play but what would you recommend? At the moment there is about 1.7 (10mm scale) - 3.5mm (9.525mm scale) between the wheel backs and the frame and I'm thinking this is somewhat OTT.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

I have read through this http://www.markwoodwheels.co.uk/wheels/standardschoice.htm and several other pages to no avail.

 

 

 

Just so you know the initial re-scale is a 3 second job, then after that you have to tweak wall and detail thicknesses. Yet with chassis it gets more complex as I make models of the wheels in place and make them to the published dimensions, then remodel the brake pads etc all to fit clearances. You likely know this but as you can see each version needs a fair bit of re-work.

 

 

 

Could somebody please advise on the chassis frame widths if you know what is common or sensible. I'm thinking 1.5mms or 2mms to be extra generous. Progress has been put on hold until I can find an answer.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Knuckles

[Trigger123]

Hi people I had a lot of LNWR kits in my 7mm range and I had them blow up to 10mm not to much trouble but then aster launched the jumbo and we had to blow down the tools to match I spoke to the man in the photographrey room of the etchers I used at the time and he said that the coaches need to go to 3/8 scale as it works better and sure enough it did the chap who said it is 5mm at the highest point is spot on just some info

[Knuckles]

How wide did you design your Gauge 1 chassis frames, wheel back to chassis clearance etc???

 

This is what I'm trying to find it.

[Not Jeremy]

Knuckles

 

You have confused scale and track standards.

 

They are completely independent of each other, you can use standard standards in 1/32 scale and equally Finescale or even ScaleOne32 in 10mm scale.

 

Also, why do you insist on trying to quote 1/32 or 3/8th scale in terms of mm to the foot, it makes no sense at all!

 

Simon

[Knuckles]

Uuggghhhh. :-S

 

Ok. This is how things currently stand.

 

From the 4mm loco bodies I took key dimensions, ÷ 4 then x by 9.525 for one body and x by 10 for the other body. Then tweaked thicknesses and details.

 

I done the same for the two chassis so they fit the respective bodies.

 

The 9.525 scale body has a 9.525 scale chassis. The 10mm body has a 10mm chassis.

 

The 9.525 chassis has dummy wheels modelled according to the above charts to set brake pad alignment. Wheels are 5mm thick set with a BtoB of 42mms.

 

The 10mm one has 6mm thick wheels and BtoB set to 40mms, again for brake pad alignment.

 

I know these can have variation too such as 9.525 scale with a 40mm BtoB etc but I can do others later.

 

I work to mm's to the foot because that is how I comprehend best and the programs I'm using etc.

 

Please point out my errors.

 

Sigh.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Knuckles

[Knuckles]

Can someone please clear up this s h i t storm because for two days all I'm doing is refreshing like a mofo hoping for some clarity. Now you're saying I still got it wrong. Pretty sure the bodies are fine. I know different standards can be applied to both regarding scale and gauge however I'm only trying to make two chassis combinations at the moment.

 

Getting seriously wound up. Don't see what I have done wrong. And got no answers to questions.

 

Already stripped the net and can't seem to find anything pertaining to my queries.

I know no one has to answer me and maybe no one knows but I don't know where else to go.

 

Really just want to get on with it.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Knuckles

[Chris Turnbull]

The instructions for the G1MRA "Project" (4F) show the frame spacers 1 5/16th inch apart.  Since the frames are 1/16th mild steel that gives an overall frame width of 1 7/16th inch.  I have checked my Barrett Black 5 (built from a kit) and that is the same. G1MRA Back to Back is 40mm +0.5/-0 and that gives me trouble-free running with my 4F and Black 5.  Since the track is 45mm irrespective of scale these dimensions apply to both 10mm and 1/32.

 

Chris Turnbull  

[Knuckles]

Thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou!

 

This is all I needed to initially know. Thankyou a lot.

 

 

Only other query is based on what Not Jeremy said in that I am still in error and would like to know exactly where. I do understand both scales can have either standards yet for what I'm making I only intend (currently) on making two chassis options.

 

If I have read, comprehended and converted it correctly then it would be about 3.65cm wide giving about 35mms left, split each side 17.5mm side play....which is about how one currently is after the re-scale anyway. Sweet.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Knuckles

[Chris Turnbull]

The trouble with scaling up from 4mm to 10mm is that you compound any errors in the 4mm model and you don't need much to make a noticeable difference.  Also, you say 4mm but 00, EM or S4 track gauge?  00 and EM do not correspond to the standard track gauge of 4 feet 8 1/2 inches so scaling the chassis would automatically give an incorrect answer.

 

The generally perceived wisdom in gauge 1 circles is that you can mix 10mm and 1/32 goods stock in one train as prototype goods wagons often had considerable variation but mixed coaches look wrong.  I use 10mm for my British stuff and 1/32 for my American stuff.  There's no clash then!  If I were starting from scratch today I would probably go for 1/32 for both.

 

Chris Turnbull 

[Knuckles]

As said above I rescale them in 2 seconds with a quick calculation but I then go about thinning or thickening walls and details to optimise for each scale, this way accuracy isn't really lost. If there are any major things people may not like then they can be seen on the 3D viewer at the top right corner of the render. A new feature I like as it allows people to check out the CAD and make a more informed decision as to whether the purchase would be suitable or not. It doesn't show measurements though.

 

For the chassis in 4mm I model in P4 & 00 but I offer both 00, EM & P4 (16mm frame width) and I re-scaled the P4 chassis upwards. When re-scaling downwards to 3mm scale 14.2mm gauge the frame width was about bang on this way too.

 

Going up go G1 has automatically given a space of ~1.7mm behind wheel backs and frames so that fits very close to the above if I comprehended you correctly regarding frame widths.

 

I model in several scales. In the loft I plan to have a big 4mm roundy roundy yet above as an end to end on one side I am planning a P4 layout and for the other side I want either an 0 or G1 layout. I plan a lot, how much is built will remain to be seen.

 

End to end bits only have 15' so according to Anyrail I could have a Gauge 1 'Inglenook' type thing only.

 

I appreciate the space is next to useless but I can't afford to buy a suitable place for things which is why I plan so much because everything I want to do will need to be crammed together and there is no point building something if it steals space from an area that later could also be a layout.

 

Got a 17.5' x 11' loft to play with.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Knuckles

[Chris Turnbull]

Yes, 1.74 mm I make it (to two decimal places).  If you want to go around tighter curves you can narrow the frames a bit.

 

This video shows both 1/32 and 10mm scale stock running together.  The class 68 is 3D printed.

 

 

Chris Turnbull

[Knuckles]

Thanks Chris.

 

Will likely set the gaps at 1.75 or 1.8mm then. Is about there already.

 

Video was good.

Didn't pick up on what scale was what by watching. No surprise really.

I guess like anything you will get used to seeing it with practice.

 

EDIT: Just checked the 10mm scaled chassis and the frame width is exactly 3.65mms. That's without touching it so that's good.

 

The one I scaled to 9.525 is 3.47 although not exactly.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Knuckles

[Chris Turnbull]

Speaking personally, I can only see a difference when a 10mm coach or loco is placed next to 1/32 coach or loco.  If you are careful how you mix them you can use both.

 

Going back to frames, here's two photos of the frames from a 1/32 scale loco the overall width of which is 36mm.

 

 

 

Chris Turnbull

[Knuckles]

That loco looks an absolute beast. Is what I like about the larger stuff, the extra oomph.

 

 

Ok so I have done two chassis for the 1:32 / 9.525 versions.

 

42mm Back to back brake pad setting.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/3TXWGM42S/lb-scr-e2-9-5mm-gauge-1-42mm-btob-chassis?optionId=64987251

 

&

 

40mm back to back brake pad setting.

​https://www.shapeways.com/product/PKUVSGTPQ/lb-scr-e2-9-5mm-gauge-1-40mm-btob-chassis?optionId=64987255

 

1:30.48 / 10mm version...

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/VFDR5XK7J/lb-scr-e2-10mm-gauge-1-40mm-btob-chassis?optionId=64987412

 

Likely will do a 42mm BtoB option also.

 

EDIT: Done, 42mm BtoB for 10mm...

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/AC6C9TVLM/lb-scr-e2-10mm-gauge-1-42mm-btob-chassis

Edited March 9, 2018 by Knuckles

[simon br blue]

For the models I've drawn at 1/32 I've either drawn them at 1/32 scale or scaled them up from o gauge.  I've recently scaled up a 16t mineral wagon from o gauge and the body and details don't require much modification (except thinning of the model walls to keep cost down).  To ensure the model can be used with scale wheels I already have the correct bearing holes and brake shoe widths saved so that I can import them into the model and everything fits when the model is printed.  The picture below hopefully shows what I mean, the yellow parts will accept Slaters bearings.

 

1to32 16t mineral bearing hole by simon br blue, on Flickr

Edited March 10, 2018 by simon br blue

[Beatty 139]

1/32” will on the whole design itself when you scale from full size as the gauge/body proportions match, you will have to make some allowance for wheel standards being not quite to scale.

 

Now when it comes to 10mm scale you need to do a lot more engineering, as the frames are not to scale, it was done to give bigger boilers and larger outside cylinders (but is a bit of a pain for inside cylinder live steam locos) work out who’s bearings you intend to use, work back from the back to backs of the wheel set standards and build in a few thou of side play then you know your face to face dimensions of the frames, however if you designing a loco with a smoke box saddle or exposed frames above the foot plating this will need to be dummy as they will not line up with the actual working frames and will look wrong if you try.