CKPR Posted November 26, 2020 Author Share Posted November 26, 2020 (edited) Did I mention the Ma & Pa caboose ?! Going by the place names, there is a part of the north eastern USA that is forever Cumberland, albeit that said caboose will be on the roster of the Aurora & Pacific RR, a fictional short line that is supposedly somewhere in California a la the Yosemite Valley RR or the Quincy RR [as in the Campbell Scale Models kits, not the CB&Q]. Edited December 3, 2020 by CKPR 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 3, 2020 Author Share Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) As promised over in the parish council minutes, I've made a start on the 4 wheel tender for No.20. Edited December 3, 2020 by CKPR 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 3, 2020 Author Share Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) Looking at No.20 with the bare bones of the tender behind the engine and I'm not entirely satisfied with the size of the cab cutout (the top edge should be slightly higher ?) or the overall height of the cab (should be slightly lower ?). Luckily, these errors suggest some re-profiling of the cab rather than any serious rebuilding. My only drawings for these engines are the LMS weight diagrams and whilst these give basic outline and dimensions, which I used for the tender chassis, they are not scale drawings by any stretch of the imagination and the variation in my working out of the cab dimensions was +/- 1mm (i.e. 3" !). It's not going to be difficult to correct and won't affect the fabrication or fitting of any other parts so I'll probably leave it for now and come back to it later - those tenders won't build themselves ! Talking of which, I've also changed the tender wheels for some slightly larger ones. Edited December 4, 2020 by CKPR 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 Having just discovered the Yosemite Valley RR [ http://www.yosemitevalleyrr.com/ ], I fear that I may be distracted from my vitally important work on the M&CR for a few days - the similarity between the YVRR's Alco 4-4-0 and those on the Ma & Pa really doesn't help, especially when there is a Bachmann Ma & Pa 4-4-0 stashed away in the attic of the Aged Ps. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 If my memory is correct. They had 45t ore hoppers similar to those on the Furness. Marc 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, Furness Wagon said: If my memory is correct. They had 45t ore hoppers similar to those on the Furness. Marc A bit like this one ? https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=198 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 That be the one. I'm building some for a client in the US from the last of our 7mm kits. Marc 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted December 5, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 hours ago, CKPR said: A bit like this one ? https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=198 Looks like the basis for the old Tri-ang model... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Regularity said: Looks like the basis for the old Tri-ang model... Easier to obtain over here than the Westerfield version ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 12, 2020 Author Share Posted December 12, 2020 The side frames for No.20's tender have been fretted out of N/S along with a set of chassis members for a 'Cotswold' L&YR 0-6-0ST (and yes, I just scribed around the ones in the Geo.Norton 'Ironclad' kit in the cupboard), and yet another M&CR double bufferbeam. I hope to get the tender parts soldered up tomorrow as well as some remedial work on the locomotive chassis to enable the new cab interior to fit. I've also tidied up the cab and rear of the firebox and it's all looking a lot more square now. Pictures tomorrow evening (after switching on our entry in the village advent display). 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 15, 2020 Author Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) A couple of days later than promised, here's a couple of pictures showing No.20 at close of play this evening - it really is 'light stops play' from now until Christmas as my modelling lamp is doing duty illuminating the advent window. I've got the basics of the tender under-frame soldered up, built up the cab interior (which has squared up the cab and made it more rigid), altered the shape and height of the rear of the mainframes and sorted out the fit of engine body and chassis. The latter two jobs were very close to bodging as I had to solder in some reinforcement and then cut away the upright protrusions above the rear wheel. Then again, with all those multiple rebuilds of the M&CR engines, it was probably exactly the sort of thing Maryport works might have done back in the day ! And then I took the photographs and noticed a problem - the tender, built to match the dimensions of No.7, is wider than the engine, which is of course essentially a GWR Dean Goods. Hmmm. I'm inclined to look at widening the engine rather than narrowing the tender but I'll have another look at it tomorrow. Edited December 16, 2020 by CKPR 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) After a bit of late night measuring and cogitation, it's obvious that it will be much easier to reduce the width of the tender by 3/16" i.e. 3/32" off each side. Update - all done now bar the inevitable cleaning up and it looks much better both in relation to the engine and also in itself. Edited December 16, 2020 by CKPR 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) Spot the difference ! Moving on at last from the under-frames, all my previous scratch-built engines have been tank engines and the closest thing to a tender that I've built have been the bunkers for these. In preparation, therefore, I've been reading the relevant parts of Guy Williams' 'The 4mm Engine Vol. 1' , which has de-mystified the marking out of the corners and the forming of the tender flares. Edited December 17, 2020 by CKPR 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) More errors that need to be corrected. I started sketching out the 6 wheel tender for No.7, which was started using the old W. Hardin Osborne drawings from the Railway Modeller, and computation of the dimensions for the body from the LMS weight diagram indicated that I've made the tender chassis and footplate 2-3mm too long. Luckily, this is all between the rear wheel and the buffer beam so more un-soldering, shortening and re-soldering is in order before I can proceed with the tender body. I'll probably mark and cut out the parts for the body just so that I feel that I've made some positive progress and I'm not just correcting my own mistakes. Moral - those old Hardin Osborne drawings are best regarded as fascinating historical sketches by someone who actually saw M&CR and FR engines in service in the early 20th century but they are not the basis for an accurate model in the early 21st century. Edited December 19, 2020 by CKPR 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 I would put Rush drawings in the same camp! Marc 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Furness Wagon said: I would put Rush drawings in the same camp! Tell me about it ! Luckily, I had read warnings discussions about the accuracy of the Rush drawings before I had built too much FR rolling stock but some of my earliest wagons are probably best accredited to the W&FJ or the WC&ER on the grounds that no-one really knows what their wagons looked like but they might have ended up with 'FR' on them (Thus says the man who these days will saw off the end of one of his scratch-built tenders to reduce it in length by 2mm i.e. 6"). Edited December 18, 2020 by CKPR 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted December 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2020 29 minutes ago, Furness Wagon said: I would put Rush drawings in the same camp! Rush by name and by nature. But nevertheless his little book is a starting-point for understanding FR rolling stock. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Even his stats are out I have cross referenced the loco sheet against the photos and they don't match. On the whole more fiction than fact. Marc 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 23, 2020 Author Share Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) A little bit more progress on both tenders - I've sorted out the springs for the 4w tender, remade the buffer beam for the 6w tender and cut out the sides and ends for both of them. Actually, this is the second set of sides for the 4w one as I realised that I needed to do some practice at riveting having made a hash of the prominent vertical rivets on the first set of sides. I've been poring over my M&CR photographs and decided to make the very prominent tapered 'flyaway' flares on the tenders as separate pieces rather than forming them in situ from the sides and ends. I've also realised that the tenders have great deal of 'interior detail' in the form of the water tanks. From what I can work out from the photographs & plans and from knowledge of contemporary FR, LNWR & L&Y tenders, the interior of the tenders is mostly taken up with a full height large 'C' shaped [or 'U' shape on its side] tank, hence those prominent flares to enable a decent amount of coal to be carried. All in all, quite a lot of miniature metal work involved, including fabricating the semi-circular fronts to the 'legs' of the tanks on the 6w tender. If you're wondering why progress is so slow, I've had some bad days as a result of medication side-effects, acute angina, etc and I can't really work past 3 pm without my anglepoise lamp that is currently part of the Christmas advent decorations. Edited December 24, 2020 by CKPR 3 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 Happy New Year and the start of another year of modelling a miniature version of 1908 ! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 (edited) Having not done any M&CR modelling for a couple of weeks (still waiting for the brave pills to kick in before I have another go with the rivet press), I've been keeping my hand in with the L&YR saddletank [heavily modified old Cotswold kit] and the Yosemite Valley RPO-Baggage car [cut down Roundhouse 'Harriman' RPO]. I've also been following the saga of the Hornby and Hattons 4w and 6w r-t-r "pre-group" generic* coaches and the discussion that these herald a renaissance of pre-group modelling. Aye well, I hae ma doots. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking these new products as there is obviously potential as Edwardian and others have spotted and I do appreciate that very few of us are lucky enough to have access to kits and components for specific pre-group coaches from the likes of D&S, PC Models, Mike Peascod and the late Trevor Charlton. I am just rather baffled by the Hornby and Hattons coaches that seem to be a return to the days of Exley and LMC i.e. generic r-t-r coaches in a multitude of nice liveries. My lockdown Healy-esque eyebrows are raised even further on reading of people saying that they are merely looking to buy some coaches in the right colours to run behind their latest very expensive locomotive - I can't be the only one who remembers Lima and Hornby passing off BR Mk 1 coaches in GWR , SR and LMS colours ?! That said, I think that both Hattons and Hornby have missed a trick here as a lot of pre-group rolling stock and locomotives actually were generic and supplied by outside firms and/ or designed by the same engineers. I've said before that a 'generic' pre-group 0-6-0 based on a Sharp Stewart/Beyer-Peacock / Kitson design or in the Drummond family style would be very welcome given the number of lines that used such engines and similarly, a perusal of the designs of the Metropolitan CW&F or Birmingham C&W companies would probably yield a set of generic coach and wagon designs with a wide applicability and appeal (i.e. they would look cute in pretty colours !). I suppose things are as they are because of the narrowing of commercial interest to only cover engines that survived to preservation or at least into BR days and the (over-) reliance on the scanning of preserved engines, coaches and wagons to produce hyper-accurate r-t-r models. Enough ramblings as our tea won't make itself ! * Of course, my RPO-Baggage coach is similarly 'based upon' the YVRR prototype as a quick perusal of the drawing and photographs will reveal but in my defence, it is going to be finished in the livery of the wholly fictitious Aurora & Pacific Railroad & Logging Co. Edited March 5, 2021 by CKPR 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamAle Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Just to whet your appetite you could go further back! The Cumbrian Raiways Association offered to pay to have the original Maryport & Carlisle Railway Rolling Stock plans, held by Carlisle Library in thier Jackson collection, scanned. With all the problems of lockdown etc. we did not think it would happen but it has! They were taken to Carlisle Archive Centre to be scanned, at nil cost to the CRA in the end! The CRA now has some very large TIFF files with them it. The Library have now loaded the images into the Cumbria Image Bank and the tinyurl will take you there! I do believe that these are some of the earliest drawings in existence for this type of stock. Please enjoy and feel free to share far and wide. https://tinyurl.com/y4vzbt43 Philip CRA Chairman 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 (edited) Cheers Phil ! I've got three of these plans that I bought from a vendor at a Workington show a few years ago and I'd be happy to donate them to this collection. Now, where's my old Tri-ang Rocket coach... Edited January 6, 2021 by CKPR 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 17 hours ago, CKPR said: ... - I can't be the only one who remembers Lima and Hornby passing off BR Mk 1 coaches in GWR , SR and LMS colours ?! Not to mention Farish's abysmal attempt at a CR 4-4-0 and coaches by repainting a midland compound and GWR coaches, neither of which looked even vaguely like anything CR! Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted January 7, 2021 Author Share Posted January 7, 2021 I can still picture those abominations ! I'd also forgotten about Farish's generic coaches in 4mm - that said, I recall that a couple of contemporary reviews noted that Farish had accidently created a more than passable Met. Rly.coach when they put an LNER 'teak' livery on their vaguely LMS non-corridor coach. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now