No Steam for Hamilton

[TerryD1471]

I understand that there is a school of thought that Mallard is likely to have gone as fast as a steam loco could.

 

Let us leave aside the merit of Deutsche Reichsbahn's huge wheeled 4-6-4's effort at achieving 125 mph on LEVEL track, meritorious though it might be! I just wouldn't want to have much to do with a Nazi sponsored locomotive, no matter how good it was. I have also heard of drivers' complaints on the PRR that their T1 class 4-4-4-4 Duplexii went into wheelspin at about 125 mph. Who knows?

 

I would rather be much more parochial and consider the fact that 6220 achieved 114 mph on a pretty short stretch of track while in single chimney form, whereas Mallard achieved 126 mph on a far longer stretch when in double chimney form. What would have happened if a double chimney streamlined Duchess had been given the opportunity to stretch its legs on a location like Stoke bank? I ask the question rhetorically.

 

I have heard that there are unsubstantiated reports that in 1963, when returning from Doncaster to Kings Cross on a special working, 46245 City of London (unstreamlined) was recorded at 118 mph hauling 11 coaches down Stoke bank. Does anyone have any further information which might confirm or deny this?

 

I look forward to hearing other views.

 

Terry

[rockershovel]

....would it be a fact if it were wrong?

 

Dave

I believe that would be a "factoid"

 

Or, possibly, cromulent?

[Davey]

I believe that would be a "factoid"

 

Or, possibly, cromulent?

 

For what its worth, I've always believed that a Princess Coronation pacific,  would have easily bet Mallards record had it have been afforded the opportunity.

 

 

Davey

[RJS1977]

In terms of steam locos suitable for main line running in the National Collection, there aren't all that many which aren't already represented by another class member. Anything less than a 4-6-0 isn't really powerful enough to pull a viable charter train. 9Fs are banned from the main line, ruling out Evening Star. Green Arrow, we're told, won't run again. Mallard and Winston Churchill are duplicated by classmates on the main line - as indeed is 70013. 6229 - as the only streamlined Duchess - and 60103 are the only locos I can think of which are big enough to haul main line charters and not already duplicated.

[Dava]

The NRM will not be overhauling a loco to mainline standard itself after the Scotsman fiasco again, it does not have the capability. 70013 is running very well managed by the GCR and has more appearances than 70000. I'd like to see [4]6229 run again after those great days in the 80's and '90's but I dont think it will happen.

 

Dava

[RJS1977]

Strange, because they're currently overhauling SNG, which isn't even one of their locos!

[Paul.Uni]

While Sir Nigel Gresley's overhaul is taking place at the NRM, the work is being carried out by the Sir Nigel Gresley Locomotive Trust. http://www.sirnigelgresley.org.uk/news.shtml

[Guest]

In terms of steam locos suitable for main line running in the National Collection, there aren't all that many which aren't already represented by another class member. Anything less than a 4-6-0 isn't really powerful enough to pull a viable charter train. 9Fs are banned from the main line, ruling out Evening Star. Green Arrow, we're told, won't run again. Mallard and Winston Churchill are duplicated by classmates on the main line - as indeed is 70013. 6229 - as the only streamlined Duchess - and 60103 are the only locos I can think of which are big enough to haul main line charters and not already duplicated.

N15 Class 777 "Sir Lamiel"

'Lord Nelson' Class 850 "Lord Nelson"

 

When Sir Lamiel was down at Swanage, I asked if I could go up into the cab. When in there, I asked the locos representative if it would ever go mainline again, the response was "After it's next overhaul."

[Dava]

N15 Class 777 "Sir Lamiel" is also based & overhauled at the GCR, looked after by Tom Tighe from the former Humberside LPG for about 35 years! Possibly a record.

 

Dava

[ScRSG]

Still believe they would have been better spending the streamlining money on getting it back into steam as it was, and as how most people who can remember them in the flesh would have preferred - BR Maroon!

It seems that it is no coincidence that almost all of the currently available main line locos are in the last (or nearly) livery they were in, even Tornado is in BR green. So we have 46100, 46115, 46233, 60009, 60103, 60163 plus the standards, the odd exception being the oddly painted maroon Jubilee. Once this last generation of enthusiasts pass on then the NRM or anyone else can redo them in any historical livery they like, as no one left alive will have seen them in action!

 

Stands by for the flack!!!!

[PhilH]

Better hope that  Hosking's new toc livery isn't pink with purple stripes then...

[Zomboid]

Better hope that Hosking's new toc livery isn't pink with purple stripes then...

What have you heard? I thought it was going to be yellow swirls.

[Zomboid]

Still believe they would have been better spending the streamlining money on getting it back into steam as it was, and as how most people who can remember them in the flesh would have preferred - BR Maroon!

It seems that it is no coincidence that almost all of the currently available main line locos are in the last (or nearly) livery they were in, even Tornado is in BR green. So we have 46100, 46115, 46233, 60009, 60103, 60163 plus the standards, the odd exception being the oddly painted maroon Jubilee. Once this last generation of enthusiasts pass on then the NRM or anyone else can redo them in any historical livery they like, as no one left alive will have seen them in action!

 

Stands by for the flack!!!!

Streamlining it to park next to mallard shows the competition from the 30s. Sutherland is an identical loco and is on the main line already, so Hamilton is safer and a better museum exhibit with the casing on.

[Jenny Emily]

I think it would be unwise to thrash what is in fact a very old piece of equipment to see if it could. You would be more likely to break it, possibly catastrophically. Would you thrash a 1930s car to the same extent just to see what its maxed out top speed was? I don't even thrash a twenty year old car to see what it can do - I would have visions of a loud bang and a smear of oil down the road putting paid to that. The only thing that really could be tested would be one of the new build locomotives, and again that would be risking a lot. I've seen a 5" miniature throw a water pump con rod at speed and it wasn't pretty, and that engine was less than three years old.

[RJS1977]

Still believe they would have been better spending the streamlining money on getting it back into steam as it was, and as how most people who can remember them in the flesh would have preferred - BR Maroon!

It seems that it is no coincidence that almost all of the currently available main line locos are in the last (or nearly) livery they were in, even Tornado is in BR green. So we have 46100, 46115, 46233, 60009, 60103, 60163 plus the standards, the odd exception being the oddly painted maroon Jubilee. Once this last generation of enthusiasts pass on then the NRM or anyone else can redo them in any historical livery they like, as no one left alive will have seen them in action!

 

Stands by for the flack!!!!

 

In many of these cases the loco is in the form which represented its ultimate development (and therefore most efficient, easiest to maintain etc - the exception being Tangmere, which is in unrebuilt form) and as such the loco is painted in the colour scheme which is authentic to .

 

 

PS - for some reason I keep confusing this thread with the F1 one!

[PhilH]

What have you heard? I thought it was going to be yellow swirls.

It will undoubtedly be tasteful, just like the sweaters he wears.

 

Oh, hang on a minute....

[sng7]

Strange, because they're currently overhauling SNG, which isn't even one of their locos!

 

 

That overhaul is being carried out by the trust that owns Sir Nigel in the workshops. The overhaul is not carried out by NRM staff or by the NRM as an organisation.

 

The fact that other organisations can use that space shows that the NRM has no aim to overhaul a large steam locomotive in that space in the foreseeable future.

[jjb1970]

Wiki is much better than it's often given credit for, probably 90%, or more, of the content is factual. If you know a fact to be wrong you can challenge it. Over time it gets better.

 

It's an encyclopaedia, not a news source. Reports of 'what might be happening' are, by their nature, less reliable.

I’d agree with that. Provided people use Wiki appropriately it is a very powerful resource and if you avoid politically contentious subjects I find it pretty reliable. If you’re writing a report or researching for an educational project then it is an excellent portal to further, more dependable sources of information in many cases. Even teachers and lecturers seem happy to endorse Wiki provided that students do not use it is a primary reference and verify the information from more secure sources. When I did my Masters my supervisor told me to use Wiki and make the most of it but FFS don’t list it in the references.

[Londontram]

I think it would be unwise to thrash what is in fact a very old piece of equipment to see if it could. You would be more likely to break it, possibly catastrophically. Would you thrash a 1930s car to the same extent just to see what its maxed out top speed was? I don't even thrash a twenty year old car

Actually Jenny if you go along to one of the vintage or classic car race days at Silverstone or Goodwood that's just what they do. Its great fun much better than formula one where who ever goes into the first corner on the first lap wins the race some of the races are real battles with million pound plus cars like D type Jags etc. being run flat out against other cars from the same period fighting lap after lap for first place and I've seen cars the cost as much as a large steam loco overhaul spin into and badly damaged on the crash barriers.

 

   On saying this I agree with your view and the chaps that race theses cars are aware of the risk involved but a 500 Ton train with passengers is a different matter

[RJS1977]

Actually Jenny if you go along to one of the vintage or classic car race days at Silverstone or Goodwood that's just what they do. Its great fun much better than formula one where who ever goes into the first corner on the first lap first wins the race some of the races are real battles with million pound plus cars like D type Jags etc. being run flat out against other cars from the same period fighting lap after lap for first place and I've seen cars the cost as much as a large steam loco overhaul spin into and badly damaged on the crash barriers.

 

   On saying this I agree with your view and the chaps that race theses cars are aware of the risk involved but a 500 Ton train with passengers is a different matter

 

I remember a friend of mine went to Goodwood on one occasion and took a lot of photos of a starting grid of over 20, million pound plus racing cars.

 

Good job he did it then as most of them crashed into each other at the first corner!

[great central]

Better hope that Hosking's new toc livery isn't pink with purple stripes then...

 

 

I thought that was First group livery?