Southern Railway carriage sidings

[Southernfrance]

I am building an N gauge layout very loosely based on the area around Stewarts Lane and Factory Junction, and will not be having a fiddle yard. Instead I want to have my stock on view and to that end I would like a rake of five or six carriage sidings to take both EMU stock and loco hauled stock. My problem is that I am not totally aware of how these would have been laid out on the prototype. I know that if they were close to a terminus or main station it would be easy to reverse stock into sidings. I am aware of a couple of SR locations (Micheldever and Eardley) which might meet my needs but I cannot find any plans.

 

On my layout I can only drive into the sidings, but have room for a long headshunt in the opposite direction to the sidings, meaning a train could pull in, a shunter could attach to the rear and drag the stock into the headshunt, allowing the loco that drew the stock in to depart. I suspect this is not prototypically correct, but cannot find much on the internet in the way of plans. Given that I live in the Correze in France my access to the UK library system is non-existant, hence this call for help!

[Oldddudders]

I think loco-hauled stock arriving at the Lane from Victoria, as e.g. the VSOE has done for many years, would typically be run round in the yard before being propelled into the shed. Few models have the length of baseboard to permit that even in 2mm scale. Considerable rationalisation has taken place on the layout in this area, and there were once four running lines coming round the back of the former Decca factory, two from Pouparts Junction, two from Longhedge Junction.

 

Eardley was a vast sprawl of sidings which I can just about remember. It held loco-hauled stock for both Central and South Eastern services, and I suspect had internal engine release facilities at the Mitcham end on some roads, allowing the incoming loco to return to Streatham Junction on a parallel road.

 

As far as EMUs are concerned, there were/are fans of sidings at the Lane, including the Garden, alongside the carriage shed. Adjacent to the Down Stewarts Lane line were the Cabbage Patch sidings, 2 or 3 EMU berthing sidings. EMUs are easy to berth!

[Guest]

There's a rather nice aerial shot of Eardley Carriage Sidings dated 1937 on the "Britain from Above" website, low-res thumbnail image below. You need to register (free of charge) to be able to pan around and zoom in but it may be useful:

 

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw055319

 

 

[Nearholmer]

There were some timetabled propelling moves from Victoria to the nearby CS in steam days, I think the sidings by Ebury Bridge - I was surprised to stumble upon them in 1950s WTT covering the Oxted Line workings.

 

IIRC, ECS from for Oxted Line to/from London Bridge were hauled to/from New Cross Gate CS, which I think were double ended.

 

Clapham Junction provided ECS to/from Waterloo using pilot engines, ditto Stewarts Lane to Victoria.

 

Micheldever was, I think, a special case, in that it wasn't really an ordinary CS, more of a "holding pen" for things on their way to/from Eastleigh Works.

 

It might be a bit small in N scale, but don't forget to leave a shoe-paddle in the cab window of any stabled EMU, to remind the "next driver out" to wind the handbrake off, and stable a tatty old steel bodied open at the stops, to act as a rubbish skip and unofficial bonfire site.

 

K

[KeithHC]

You can always have a look at the National Library maps site. The OS 25 ins series covers all of the Southern half of the country so all of the Southern region.

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=6&lat=53.3995&lon=-3.0305&layers=64&point=0,0

 

Keith HC,

[Southernfrance]

Thanks to all the replies so far. I have registered on both Britain from above (thanks Pete 75C) and National Library (thanks Keith HC) - Eardley looks like all dead end sidings in various fans, and appears to have some form of headshunt to drive into before reversing in from what I can make out on the photos. I will need to explore the maps site a little more but what I found of New Cross Gate looked interesting, if a little old for my period (I forgot to mention the layout is set broadly 1957 - 1963 to take advantage of the marvellous stuff available in N these days. It is 13' by 3'-3" and is a folded figure of 8, VERY loosely based on the area mentioned!)

[Nearholmer]

Here is a correct period one of N+G http://maps.nls.uk/view/102907144, you even get The Den in full detail.

 

Another possibility to consider is to create a sort of "highly typical", using signature elements from a number of places. Things to think about might be:

 

- whether or not you want a carriage washing machine;

- raised walkways;

- the previously mentioned rubbish wagon;

- messing facility for cleaners

- store

- bike racks

- incinerator building with chimney

- lighting

- whether or not it should have a booking on point for train crews

- shunters cabin near the entry points

- exactly how terrifying the women cleaners should be (London area cleaners were, too a woman, utterly terrifying, and those at N+G more terrifying than all the rest put together!)

 

If you do put in a washer, you need to station someone with a long pole on each side of the track, on the "running in" side, their job being to push the drop-lights up, to prevent water getting inside the train. Trains came out of service at the London termini with many windows down, where all the commuters had lent out to open the doors.

 

Lots of opportunity to model inner-suburban grot!

 

K

 

PS: Orpington is a bit too far out in the suburbs, and being genteel had a cleaning shed, rather than all open sidings, but the track layout and washer position might be useful to you http://maps.nls.uk/view/102911923

Edited December 22, 2015 by Nearholmer

[Guest]

- exactly how terrifying the women cleaners should be

 

Thanks for reminding me of Mavis at Selhurst. Booking on as night shift shunt driver was always fraught with danger. "Pete - take that 319 from the New Shed to 4 road, Cleaning Shed". Gulp.

[Nearholmer]

Ah, many is the tale of a callow apprentice, working alone changing light bulbs or fixing door locks, caught unawares by a cackling, whooping horde of cleaners, to emerge ashen-faced and quaking, hurriedly trying to put his boiler-suit back on.

 

Remember two things:

 

- in closed compartment stock, there is nowhere to run to; and,

 

- these women were the daughters, wives and mothers of The Den crowd.

 

Nuff said.

[Oldddudders]

I concur that the NXG ladies had a reputation for not being trifled with, and there was a large notice to that effect on public display. The teams that I dealt with at Grove Park and Slade Green could be awkward, but reason often prevailed. Stew Lane ladies I never dealt with direct as they had a supervisor who prompted the weekly rostering he and I would devise when I covered the Yard Manager's post there. I think Mrs Megafu and team won some sort of award a few years later.

 

Orpington ladies apparently included one who was particularly attractive to men, ISTR, and knew it.....

 

Ramsgate ladies were positively classy by comparison.

[phil gollin]

.............   Eardley was a vast sprawl of sidings which I can just about remember. It held loco-hauled stock for both Central and South Eastern services, and I suspect had internal engine release facilities at the Mitcham end on some roads, allowing the incoming loco to return to Streatham Junction on a parallel road.  ...............

 

.

 

Thanks for that - I never knew the name of those sidings until now.

 

In the early 60's I used to pass those on trains from Mitcham Junction and gradually saw the number of coaches dwindle - they always seemed to have some wrecks stored where they could easily be seen from the passing trains.

[Dava]

Rather than start a new thread, back in #4 of this one 'Nearholmer' mentioned Micheldever carriage sidings as a 'staging post' for stock en route to Eastleigh. Passing through between Wincheter and Eastleigh en route to Bournemouth today,it's been a huge empty space [it was a quarry] with a disused [in reserve?] oil depot and a few bits of stock for as long as I remember.

 

There is not much online other than some intriguing photos of withdrawn stock in the late 60-early 70's period. But Mike Esau's 'Steam into Wessex' has a classic B&W photo from above the cutting of a steam train running past the carriage sheds and stock sidings full of steam and electric stock.

 

When did the carriage shed or works open and close? Are there photos of the buildings, history or plan of the site? Just curious!

 

Dava

[Nearholmer]

Dava

 

Are you meaning "when was there a shed/works" at Micheldever?

 

If so, I don't think there ever was one, just sidings that were used to store stock ( but, looking at a 1958 OS map, there appears to be a long shed over a few sidings, so maybe I'm wrong).

 

It might be worth pursuing NLS Maps in more detail, because I suspect that the sidings were greatly expanded, during WW2, as a staging-post for D-Day, but that is just a guess. I think the 'big hole' started in the early C20th as a quarry for material to build railway embankments, but again, I could be wrong.

 

There was definitely 'something' there pre-WW2, possibly just a couple of sidings, because Eastleigh works used to operate trial trips with new/rebuilt things to Micheldever, because it was a convenient place to turn back, and, I think, tuck a trial train out of the way for a bit.

 

Kevin

Edited January 12, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Dava]

Thanks Kevin,

 

Just returned from a very long journey to B'mouth, I do wish people would not jump in front of XC or any other trains, it plays havoc with the timetable let alone the effects on the drivers. Or for that matter commit arson at Nottingham station [ladies lavs apparently, causing major fire and damage].

 

Attached is a rather poor copy of the Mike Esau photo of Micheldever which shows a long, double-gabled shed or workshop which would hold at least 4 tracks, in addition to the long sidings. The shed roofs don't appear to have top lights so a carriage storage shed may be more likely than workshop. It was this photo which excited my interest, back to 1976 when I bought the book! You are I believe correct that the stone was quarried for Southampton Docks, and the site then used for the stock sidings which were expanded in WW2 ahead of D-Day. A local history refers to large numbers of people working at the site but I wouldn't take this as fact without some confirmation.

 

 

I have to say the GWR green on the new electric trains seen at Reading does not flatter them, but that's another topic and a personal view.

[Nearholmer]

Intruiging. Until I spotted it on the map, I never knew there had been a shed there, and I've certainly not seen a picture. The photo seems to show CR on the main line, so 1966 (when it was laid, not switched-on until 1967) or later, so I ought to recall the shed, but I don't.

 

I'm now concocting a conspiracy theory that it was actually on off-loading point for an underground storage facility, built during WW2, and which later became the fuel-storage facility, in fact, maybe it was under-cover tanker unloading, out of the eye of German bombers. But remember, I made all that up!

 

Edit: looks as if I might be right.

 

http://sussexhistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=5701.0

 

Hopefully someone better informed can confirm what what in the sheds.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Nearholmer

[hmrspaul]

Some Micheldever photos https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=23987565%40N05&view_all=1&text=micheldever

 

Paul

[Dava]

Thanks to both,

 

Looking at John Turner's photos, the massive concrete block of the oil storage depot is still there, but the unloading gantries in front are not. These could well date from WW2 and have been concealed inside the shed, so Kevin could well be right. The shed may have been to conceal tank wagons and the facility from Luftwaffe aircraft. It certainly fooled me. If so, mystery solved and another possible traffic flow for SR modellers.

 

Lionheart do very fine oil tank wagons in Gauge 0 for just this era.....?

 

Dava

[Wickham Green]

Dava

 

Are you meaning "when was there a shed/works" at Micheldever?

 

If so, I don't think there ever was one, just sidings that were used to store stock ( but, looking at a 1958 OS map, there appears to be a long shed over a few sidings, so maybe I'm wrong).

 

It might be worth pursuing NLS Maps in more detail, because I suspect that the sidings were greatly expanded, during WW2, as a staging-post for D-Day, but that is just a guess. I think the 'big hole' started in the early C20th as a quarry for material to build railway embankments, but again, I could be wrong.

 

There was definitely 'something' there pre-WW2, possibly just a couple of sidings, because Eastleigh works used to operate trial trips with new/rebuilt things to Micheldever, because it was a convenient place to turn back, and, I think, tuck a trial train out of the way for a bit.

 

Kevin

I think most of the chalk they dug out of Micheldever went to expand the docks at So'ton.

[retiredoperator]

Hi Modellers. If only I had enough space, a gymnasium? or the likes of? I too would like to build a similar “ extravaganza “, nothing wrong with that. But limited as I am to a modest space , I have come up with a possible solution, a back scene of either an MPD full of Locos, or a carriage sidings likewise full of empty stock. But if this is available in OO Gauge I haven’t seen one. 

Have any of you knowledgeable Modellers got any ideas? 

Happy Modelling Kev 

[Sabato]

I've just been looking up some info on Eardley Sidings for a friend, and found this thread. I thought some might find the diagrammatic plan below of interest, altho' probably way too late for those who contributed a few years ago.