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Christleton Junction - 1986 - It’s back (or it will be)

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The new 47 was sound fitted today, a Howes production with a rectangular speaker mounted in the fuel tanks. The sound is excellent but the loco performance leaves something to be desired - its top speed is embarrassingly low. I’m not sure whether it’s a decoder issue or just that the loco needs a proper running in. Ideas required!

 

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The first photo shows the fuel tanks with the cutaway for the speaker. I’ve disconnected the cab and tail light switches and used a disc cutter to create the space. I also drilled a hole for the wires to come through.

 

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The speaker in place, held in with some black tack for testing.

 

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Once done, it’s hard to spot at all from the side. I find this location gives the maximum volume and sound clarity.

 

Finally, a video of a Euston - Holyhead service having a loco swap. The 85 comes off and 47612 is pressed straight into service.

 

Love all of that, good work mate.

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An update that almost includes some proper modelling! A start has been made on the platform faces, using Slaters brick plastikard.

 

First of all the sheets were sprayed with Antelope Beige (concrete colour) and then immediately wiped with a cloth to leave just the mortar painted.

 

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When thoroughly dry, each sheet was sprayed with Halfords grey camouflage (matt dirt colour) and wiped with a rag with a little white spirit on it. This just gives each sheet a base colour. I knocked up a quick wooden jig to allow me to cut a lot of strips of the brickwork at exactly 18mm high.

 

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The strips are then attached to the wood formers using an Evo-stick-a-like solvent free glue. So far so good, although a little tricky to get a decent photo of. About half the faces are now done, so another decent session should see all the faces covered. I can then turn my attention to some steel girder work where the subway runs under the platforms.

 

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All the platform faces are now covered in bricks, which makes quite a visual difference. I now need to identify some real photos of the girders which support platforms where there is a subway; I’ve seen countless ones when planning the platforms but of course can’t find a single one now and they are a surprisingly difficult thing to search for on google. If you want pictures of trains in New York or incredibly unhealthy sandwiches, subway is a good word to search with, but otherwise...

 

First of all a general view of the whole station. Each bit of work feels like it takes me closer to a model railway and further from some tracks laid on plywood!

 

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A couple of shots from the ‘wrong side’, mainly so I could see what it looks like. I can fit the iphone on the far side of the layout to see the platforms, but not my head. I’m not sure the far side of the platforms will ever be seen, but it seemed wrong not to do them.

 

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Here’s a shot I’ve had in mind for a while, and is one of the reasons for having the stubby parcels dock in the yard as it gives a view of 4 terminal platforms and should enable me to create some classic ‘on the blocks’ photos of terminal stations. Currently though the chimney breast supporting wall gets in the way of the camera. This won’t be the layout’s long term location, so hopefully it will be more photographable by the time it is finished.

 

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Subway supports are next on the list, together with some kind of support beam in the centre roads to show where the subway runs. I then need to think about stairs and access wells before turning my attention to the platform tops. The tops need to be around 2mm think in total, to bring the platform height up to 3’. Most of the platforms will be tarmac with coping stones on the edge, whilst the parcels dock will be paved. I might keep some of platform 1 (up main), including the former bay as still paved, with the other platforms having been refurbished during the electrification works.

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An update on the fitting of the steelwork in the platforms where the subway runs. This is definitely in modelling territory and unusually for me didn’t involve any power tools. There are 5 steel girders, including one that sits between the two through roads. They are simple plastikard fabrications, sprayed Halfords bumper grey and glued onto the baseboard using solvent free adhesive.

 

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I now have to think about the platform tops, they need to add 2mm in height to bring the platform surface up to 3’ above rail height. Before that I want to build some stair wells in the platform; I’m just debating if it’s worth cutting a hole in the baseboards so that I can build full depth stairs.

 

On the motive power side I’ve identified that the 08’s driven axle is running lumpy, which causes the coupling rods to bind with the other two axles. With the legomanbiffo chip fitted, this resulted in the motor stalling. With a standard Bachmann chip fitted, the loco runs faster, with the result that when the axle ran out of true it sent the coupling rods in several different directions. Running the loco upside down you can see that at irregular intervals the driven axle will lift itself out of its proper position. I need to identify the cause of this - I don’t know if this is a bearing or gear issue, but I suspect the latter.

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An update of a different sort - this weekend saw the first visit of a loco powered by solid carbon rather than the runny variety. An Ivatt 4 ‘Flying Pig’ was undertaking a test run on a parcel’s rake; 43106 is the sole survivor of the class and is a firm favourite of both mine and the major’s. I had the pleasure of watching him fit the 8 pin decoder into the smokebox and after the first couple of hours I was convinced that us diesel chaps are missing out of much of the pleasure of model railways, having hardly anything like the opportunity for learning new expletives. I know 43106 has worked on the mainline, but I’m not sure if it ever made it to North Wales. Anyway, here are a couple of shots as she enters the station.

 

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If you’re the kind of person who has taken apart hundreds of locomotives and never lost a screw, then this probably isn’t the right thread for you to be reading. Like most people I like to consider myself organised and will make use of the white board with a lip on it to prevent the losing of screws and pick-ups absolutley no later than having lost a second screw from an engine I’m quickly taking apart. I’m actually considering getting scientists to review the properties of the cellar floor, as it is now inconceivable that I’m not walking around on a foot deep pile of lost screws and parts, yet nothing has ever been found following the amazing spring like leap for freedom made by a seemingly incompressible 6mm long solid piece of steel. Whilst a grey floor can clearly hide an identically coloured dark grey screw, it is an amazing feat to be able to also hide things that are bright white or very shiny.

 

Anyway the point of all this story is that I have probably found the problem of the poor running 08, it looks like at some point during the thousand cycles of disassembley and reassembly necessary to fit DCC sound to a locomotive, that one of the wheel bearings wasn’t slotted in properly on the drive axle, allowing one side of it to float freely and occassionally add a few milimetres to its diameter of revolution. With that issue now resolved the drive axle runs straight and true; sadly it doesn’t turn the coupling rods smoothly as the aforementioned implosion of the rods seems to have allowed our old friend ‘shearing’ into the space between square peg and hole. A drop of superglue will hopefully fix that, however work has got in the way so we will have to wait and see,,,

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It’s been a while since my last post, which has mainly been down to moving house. We should have moved in January, but two chain collapses mean that we only moved in late July. Christleton Junction is safely stored in a garage for the moment, whilst I work out where to put it in the new home.

 

On paper the new house is slightly bigger than the last, but is missing a 4.1m x 4m room that the local powers would deem acceptable for model railway use. There are therefore several options that I’m considering. There’s a little time pressure as I’m not convinced that it’s current garage storage will be ideal over winter and I’m also keen to be able to run trains again.

 

Christleton was conceived as a layout never to be moved on the basis that where we were living was forever. The boards were barely finished when estate agent’s brochures started appearing...you could argue that as I made it portable I always knew this.

 

I would like to keep the layout roughly as is, I spent a lot of time working the concept out and it works really well. I’m not sure I can stomach starting all over again, although I wouldn’t rule it out entirely. That leaves me with some options...

 

The ‘front’ of the layout is 4.1m. South Junction (where the electric loco stabling is, to the left from the operator’s view) could be moved somewhat, there’s a curved 4 track section that could be easily reconfigured. Likewise Chester Junction (at the opposite end) could be reconfigured.

 

Option 1 is an attic space, but well insulated with a proper window. It’s about 5m x 2.7m. The layout could probably fit, but not ideal. This would need another area of roof space to be converted for general storage to free up some space.

 

Option 2 can be thought of as a cave. It’s a garage / shed dug into Sandstone with a brick arch roof. A really amazing space but damp. It could probably be tanked and would give a space of 4.5m x 3.5m, needing less modification to the layout, but a lot of upfront work.

 

Option 3 is to negotiate temporary rights to use a bedroom with a long term plan to rehouse in a shed or above a yet to be built double garage. I haven’t yet found a reasonably priced shed at the sort of size required though.

 

There are several other possibilities including just running part of it or starting all over. I guess I could sell what I’ve made so far, but I doubt I’d get back anything like the cost of what I’ve put in. I also want a railway I can run now (ish) as a distraction from having bought a wreck of a house. And I really like where I’d got it to, it was just about to get interesting!

 

Any thoughts

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Difficult one mate, can't advise as I normally sell on before a Move and then start again, I've just sold, Kings Moreton, as I needed a fresh start, but trying to fit a bigger layout into a small area will never work to any satisfaction. 

 

Maybe a small temporary Layout / Depot / BLT / Yard, or something until you can find room to re erect it permanently.

 

Just my thoughts.

Edited by Andrew P

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Difficult one mate, can't advise as I normally sell on before a Move and then start again, I've just sold, Kings Moreton, as I needed a fresh start, but trying to fit a bigger layout into a small area will never work to any satisfaction.

 

Maybe a small temporary Layout / Depot / BLT / Yard, or something until you can find room to re erect it permanently.

 

Just my thoughts.

Who would buy a half started layout? I take your point about trying to make a layout smaller being unlikely to work. Starting afresh is the logical thing to do. So we can rule that out...

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After a very long interlude, model railway time is back. Having spent the last few months in storage, Christleton is now resident at the new house. Resident, but sadly not in an operable state. Numerous attempts have proved that ‘almost fits’ isn’t the same as ‘fits’. I’ve reviewed what I think to be every conceivable option but always end up back at the same conclusion; I will need to start again.

 

The revised plan is to pretty much create the same layout, but adapted for the new room. It’s 5m long instead of 4.1m (good), 3m wide instead of 4m (less good) and has a door in a particularly awkward place (try to ignore). On the very plus side, the new room has a window and sunlight and no (current) damp.

 

The new layout will be pretty much the same as the old one (I already have the points available, at least in theory). So a through station with 2 through platforms, with a couple of centre roads, 3 or 4 terminal platforms, engine shed and goods yard.

 

The previous version had envisaged a 12 or 14 road fiddle yard, although I only ever got as far as a temporary 4 through roads and 1 siding, which worked remarkably well. Operating experience shows that a couple of terminal fiddle yards with just a couple of continuous run roads should be more than fine (and get around the door problem).

 

Initial construction has started with the framework, which again is largely Wickes kitchen units to hide all my tools. I can only do about 75% of the framework at the moment, as the 200+ year old window is awaiting restoration.

 

I’ve already decided on a few changes to last time. The baseboards will be a bit more solid, lightweight really isn’t a priority, and they will be partially accessible from underneath. I’ll probably change my method of point motor wiring to something more conventional too.

 

Layoutwise I’d like the sidings to be nearer the operator, as I’ll probably stick with 3 link couplings and I’ll reduce the amount of loco storage in the shed area.

 

Here’s some pictures of progress so far, hopefully more will follow soon.

 

A general view of the room, looking into the corner where the station will be. Using the alcove space gets me an extra 550mm of terminal platform length

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The left hand side will be fiddle yard. There’s an odd perspective that makes this look wonky - it’s not!

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The unstarted end of the room; I’ll probably lose the curtains! The old layout is stacked in front of the window. Initial measurements show that it should be possible to have more fiddle yard against the window wall, with a couple of through lines on a hinged section by the door.

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New baseboard tops loosely laid in place for planning purposes. 

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The next job is the unpleasant task of rescuing the old track (at least the points, I can face up to buying more flexi if required). Still, it is now possible to start thinking of running trains again!

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It will be good to see it up and running again mate.

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After a much longer delay than I'd intended, work has commenced in earnest on the boards. I finally braved up to the task of dismantling the old boards, which was slightly depressing, but did at least free up the points so that I could start layout planning in earnest. I said before that I would tweak the layout a little and that has pretty much been the case. I'll try to draw up a track layout for clarity. There are a few subtle changes that I've made:

 

- The South Junction has been compressed a little; the changed dimensions of the room means I needed to get the fiddle yard access started a little sooner than before. This means I've used a double slip instead of end to end points and I'll probably have reduced electric loco storage (2 locos instead of 4). 

- The main station is unchanged, being 2 through platforms with 2 centre roads for freight and loco moves.

- The two principal terminal platforms will now have a centre road, for parcels, coaches and loco stabling.

- The outer terminal platform is now longer and has a single carriage siding for DMU stabling along side it. 

- The freight yard has gone. The last one was too short and too far out of reach. I've allowed for a possible freight branch which could see a small yard at the back of the layout.

- The loco shed has changed configuration. The last shed could hold around 10 locos, I think I'll get about 8 in the new one. It seems inconceivable I'll run out of storage for locos, but I'll wager there are a few readers that will express alternative views (the Bachmann sealed beam 45 release certainly makes this more likely!).

 

I've attached a couple of pictures of the first 3 boards. These are a bit more solidly built and the open plan areas are somewhat reduced. I've managed this on 4 boards rather than the previous 7, which should make wiring a little easier. The first 3 boards have been completed and I'm just getting the resulting splinters out of my hands before starting the 4th. The boards are made from 9mm hardwood ply, braced with 34 x 44 battens. The previous tops were 6mm ply and had started to deflect a little in the middle, hopefully these will be a little more sturdy.

 

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So a couple of drawings. First a track layout. I've drawn it all straight as it's a lot simpler that way, but in reality it's quite curved and the mainline along the front baseboard is laid at an angle to give interest.

 

CJ2.2.jpg.67a80b8a9883380b67704e25af0c2c1c.jpg

 

Next is a schematic of the point motor wiring. This is something I've given a lot of thought to. I always liked each motor being driven by its own capacitor; not only does it protect the motor like a CDU will, but it allows for future connection to some form of route setting system. In the previous incarnation of the wiring, the points drive normal whilst charging the capacitor (once the capacitor was charged it cut the current to the motor); reversing the polarity discharged the capacitor through the reverse point coil. If you haven't followed this far, you can probably skip the next paragraph!

 

The solution did have its drawbacks, one of which was that two or three motors driving normal at the same time didn't always get right the way across, as effectively each coil only had a third of the total current available. Seep motors like a short bang of high current, rather than a lower current for longer. I'd realised this would give me a problem if I wanted to set a route that had 8 or 9 point throws in it. You could throw any number of points reverse simultaneously because the current was stored on each local capacitor. This got me head scratching and back into some old textbooks before trialling a back to back capacitor solution (it is really important that back to back capacitors are identical, same brand and characteristics, not just the same capacitance); this looks like it shouldn't work, but is actually quite elegant. Effectively one capacitor charges whilst the other one discharges. The charging capacitor cuts the current before any damage is done to the coil, whilst the discharging capacitor gives a short burst of current to drive the solenoid. It's important to get the diodes, capacitor and solenoid windings all the right way round to avoid any damage to the components. My trial has been using 2200uF capacitors, which I think are probably a bit meaty for the job, so I'll try reducing it to see what happens. That said, double slips and long curved points do have quite a bit of friction to overcome. I suspect the downside of too much capacitance will be broken joints on the tie bars.

 

For the initial trial I just used a DPDT switch to reverse the current round the circuit, but I've now tried a £2 latched relay to do the job. I'll probably use a pair of latched relays so that I can use one to switch the frog polarity too. I wasn't convinced by the Seep's electrical switch for driving the frog polarity; some research suggests that even getting the motors perfectly aligned may not solve this reliably. I intend for the relays, diodes and capacitors to be wired alongside each motor, needing just a 5V pair of wires to go from each motor to the control panel. Initially some simple push to make switches will be used to operate the points.

 

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I do like a signalling wiring diagram. Instant ‘off the top of my head’ reaction is: do you need both capacitors?  I think one (of the correct size) would work. Put it between the coils if you like symmetry.

Paul.

5BarVT FIRSE

!

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17 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

I do like a signalling wiring diagram. Instant ‘off the top of my head’ reaction is: do you need both capacitors?  I think one (of the correct size) would work. Put it between the coils if you like symmetry.

Paul.

5BarVT FIRSE

!

I’d be interested to see that sketched out. I think you’d end up with effectively a mini CDU for each point motor. As the CDU is constantly being charged, you need to use a momentary contact to switch the points. The back to back solution means that a non-momentary switch can be used, which allows more options for selecting points and routes. 

 

(Also FIRSE)

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10 hours ago, 61656 said:

(Also FIRSE)

So we may actually have met without realising!  Are you going to either of the lunch next week or the MRS ELR visit on 22nd?

i hadn’t noticed that the point motor coils are actually floating since they are between two capacitors.  My solution can’t be done wirpth an electrolytic as the polarity is reversed.  You’ve got me intrigued now - need to do some thinking. 

Paul.

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On 05/06/2019 at 23:32, 5BarVT said:

So we may actually have met without realising!  Are you going to either of the lunch next week or the MRS ELR visit on 22nd?

i hadn’t noticed that the point motor coils are actually floating since they are between two capacitors.  My solution can’t be done wirpth an electrolytic as the polarity is reversed.  You’ve got me intrigued now - need to do some thinking. 

Paul.

I can’t make either event this year, although I was the fireman on last year’s MRS luncheon trip.

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I managed to find a decent amount of time and get the 4 main boards finished over the last few days. These 4 will form most of the scenic section and all the points are on 3 of them. They are all reinforced, fitted with aligning dowels and spring clips, as well as having underlay fitted.  

 

Last time I built all the boards, then laid all the track and then did the wiring. This time I’ve decided to start track laying on the main boards before I build any more. That way I can mix the jobs up a bit and hopefully get something running a bit sooner, albeit just some shunting to and fro in the station. 

 

The board tops are 3mm thicker than last time to add some rigidity, but as I want to reuse the same point motors, I needed to use a thinner underlay. I’m not sure the underlay really does much sound suppression in any case. I’m planning to fill the undersides with bubblewrap, which should help deaden the noise a bit. 

 

I’ve sprayed the underlay a matt brown colour, as not spraying the underlay last time before I put the track down was definitely a mistake. 

 

One problem I have encountered is that you can no longer buy 4mm finescale concrete sleepered flexitrack. Despite being born in Yorkshire, having to reuse the old stuff isn’t as appealing as you’d think!

 

Time to start gluing some track down...

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A very interesting read 

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I have finally got around to some track laying, having been putting it off for quite a while. In the end it was enjoyable and not nearly as tiresome as I feared! The first 5 points are down using my tried and tested Copydex and hope approach. 

 

These points are crucial in terms of the layout’s geometry, so getting them down first allows everything else to be arranged around them. 

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On 04/06/2019 at 19:27, 5BarVT said:

I do like a signalling wiring diagram. 

 

+1....

 

On 04/06/2019 at 17:44, 61656 said:

Next is a schematic of the point motor wiring..............

 

I came across this by accident, very interesting. I will be following this closely. That point drive solution looks very elegant. May I ask where you got the £2 relays from please? If my own layout plans ever get off the ground, I hope to control it from a lever frame. However I cut my teeth on RRI rather than mechanical locking, so my frame was going to be electrically locked rather than mechanically. 

 

Thanks,

TA (not FIRSE, just a license holder)

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12 hours ago, Titanius Anglesmith said:

 

+1....

 

 

I came across this by accident, very interesting. I will be following this closely. That point drive solution looks very elegant. May I ask where you got the £2 relays from please? If my own layout plans ever get off the ground, I hope to control it from a lever frame. However I cut my teeth on RRI rather than mechanical locking, so my frame was going to be electrically locked rather than mechanically. 

 

Thanks,

TA (not FIRSE, just a license holder)

 

The relays are from RS online. I can probably find the part number if you want. 

 

My test circuit has been subjected to quite a bit of hammer and unreallife testing. If you don’t waggle the wires they are very robust (although I haven’t come close to their designed 10k operations!). They are only 15mm long, which isn’t much space for soldering 10 wires, so I’ll be trying something bigger before committing to 80 odd (40 point ends and 40 frogs, although I may be able to reduce that number).

 

Always good to meet another member, the grade only tells you who buys the first round!

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A bit more track laying tonight, there are now 10 points down (15 ends and a diamond, if you’re so inclined) and all connected together. I was worried about reusing points and how many short rail lengths I’d be soldering in, but it’s working quite well. 

 

A straight pencil line to follow has proved helpful, as well as spending time neatening up soldered joints with the Dremel. There are lots of shiny bits that stick out, but they’ll soon disappear when painted. 

 

The iphone is probably an amazing camera, but limited by its operator. This is a bit of a shame as the trackwork laid so far has a satisfying station throat appearance to it. I hope to spend many long hours at the platform end waiting for a red pen peak, only to be bowled out by 47 555. I don’t ever plan to own 555, but it will still doubtless turn up!

 

A few pictures to look at, including one with a peak heading off to the North East. 

 

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19 hours ago, 61656 said:

 

The relays are from RS online. I can probably find the part number if you want. 

 

If you wouldn't mind please, it would be very helpful. But no problem if not. I've been on the lookout for cost effective 3- or 4-pole relays (general purpose) without much success; you've made me realise that two 2-pole relays in parallel is actually more economic. 

 

Incidently, that station throat point work is looking very impressive! :good:

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