Trawsfynydd Railway Society

[RJS1977]

If there's no run-round facilities at the Traws end, there's little point in running round at Blaenau either so top-n-tail or push-pull working would be the order of the day, which would mean ATW could use one SG platform at Blaenau and the Blaenau and Traws the other, with the only enroachment coming when charter trains come to Blaenau and need to run round.

 

Apart from the issue of the reservoir (apparently someone from the Ffestiniog did a survey some years ago and concluded it would be much easier to deviate round that than the Llyn Ystradau was!), one problem is the lack of intermediate stops between Blaenau and Bala. The rebuildings of both the FR and WHR benefited from there being stations at regular intervals which could act as temporary termini and as destinations in their own right. Blaenau-Bala isn't so well blessed - it's an 'all or nothing' route. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by RJS1977

[mcowgill]

There aren't two standard guage platform faces at Blaenau, the other platforms are both 2' gauge

 

Martin

[RJS1977]

There aren't two standard guage platform faces at Blaenau, the other platforms are both 2' gauge

 

Martin

 

I was wondering who'd be the first to spot that... ;-)

[Zomboid]

There aren't two standard guage platform faces at Blaenau, the other platforms are both 2' gauge

 

Martin

Isn't the Blaenau LNWR station still there? That would be a second SG platform...

[locoholic]

I'm surprised they haven't thought of relaying in 2ft gauge to link with the Bala lake or did I read somewhere they would like to join the Llangollen railway?

I had thought that too, but I suspect the Festiniog have got quite enough on their plate with the Welsh Highland, and wouldn't welcome any further competition or drain on their resources.

 

The idea of a narrow gauge network stretching from Caernarvon to Bala is very attractive, though. Maybe the Welsh Assembly could adopt it as the start of a Welsh National Railway?! Next stop Dolgellau, or Brecon..

 

As a standard gauge heritage railway it would be quite a tough proposition. The tight curves would mean that the track and wheels would be subject to more wear than usual, and covered accomodation for the rolling stock would be essential due to the poor weather the area experiences.

[andyman7]

Apart from the issue of the reservoir (apparently someone from the Ffestiniog did a survey some years ago and concluded it would be much easier to deviate round that than the Llyn Ystradau was!), one problem is the lack of intermediate stops between Blaenau and Bala. The rebuildings of both the FR and WHR benefited from there being stations at regular intervals which could act as temporary termini and as destinations in their own right. Blaenau-Bala isn't so well blessed - it's an 'all or nothing' route. 

It may be 'all or nothing'. but it is a spectacular route...it's always struck me as an opportunity if the right circumstances were to come together.

[Coryton]

I had thought that too, but I suspect the Festiniog have got quite enough on their plate with the Welsh Highland, and wouldn't welcome any further competition or drain on their resources.

 

I think there were at least certain elements in the Ffestiniog who took that view about resurrecting the Welsh Highland, and it seems to have worked out OK.

[Merfyn Jones]

Isn't the Blaenau LNWR station still there? That would be a second SG platform...

 

Platform only still there but nothing else. However it is the wrong end of town.

[TomJ]

I've often thought that the one thing that part of north wales is missing is a steam railway. How many tourists arrive at Blaneau Ffestiniog and think 'if only there was a steam train here we could ride'?

[locoholic]

I've often thought that the one thing that part of north wales is missing is a steam railway. How many tourists arrive at Blaneau Ffestiniog and think 'if only there was a steam train here we could ride'?

Well, they're in for a nice surprise, then! The alternative would be to ask how many arrive because there's a steam train to ride on, and maybe another one would attract even more. Tourists in Switzerland can get around without a car because of the tourist-orientated rail network. North Wales is almost in the same situation, and an extra line would help.

[28XX]

http://www.unseensteam.co.uk/News/Blaenau-Ffestiniog-Plans

[28XX]

http://cambrian-news.co.uk/article.cfm?id=108512

[28XX]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-37435111?SThisFB

 

Colin seems to have harnessed the the media.

[Coryton]

Well, they're in for a nice surprise, then! The alternative would be to ask how many arrive because there's a steam train to ride on, and maybe another one would attract even more. Tourists in Switzerland can get around without a car because of the tourist-orientated rail network. North Wales is almost in the same situation, and an extra line would help.

 

I'm rather repeating myself, but you could have said the same about the Welsh Highland.

 

I for one am extremely glad that it was re-opened.

 

And a standard gauge steam railway in that part of Wales would be something of a novelty.

[TomJ]

I would agree that 20yrs ago when I walked through the Aberglaslyn pass the thought that trains would run through it again did seem impossible. But I think there are significant differences between the two projects.

 

IIRC one of the reasons that the FR was chosen to rebuild the WHR was because they already had proven experience of rebuilding and running a railway, and all the commercial and engineering knowledge acquired in the process. The new WHR was built to compliment their existing railway not complete. They had detailed, public plans for the whole project including what stock they would use. Despite all their enthusiasm and effort the volunteer WHR(64) co never got much beyond Porthmadog in 30yrs.

 

By contrast the Trawsfynydd line has no station at either end - using even the other side of the NR loop at Ffestiniog would involve rebuilding and integrating into NR signalling - which isn't cheap or simple. At the other end there's just a former loading gantry nowhere near the village of the same name.

 

Sadly I can't see it ever competing with the 'world famous' FR. Put it simple most families and tourists won't care about the gauge difference and so I can't see what a ride on this line would offer them compared to a ride on the established FR with all its facilities, catering etc etc.

 

Finally there's the cost issue. The BBC and Daily Post article talk about £200000 so far for this new venture. The WHR cost tens of millions and involved funding from the lottery, government and EU.

I'd love to see an ex GWR tank engine with matching stock running to a beautifully restored/rebuilt heritage station but tbh the most I can see happening is a knackered DMU or an austerity shuttling along and I just can't see that being a viable long term proposal.

[Coryton]

I would agree that 20yrs ago when I walked through the Aberglaslyn pass the thought that trains would run through it again did seem impossible. But I think there are significant differences between the two projects.

 

I'd love to see an ex GWR tank engine with matching stock running to a beautifully restored/rebuilt heritage station but tbh the most I can see happening is a knackered DMU or an austerity shuttling along and I just can't see that being a viable long term proposal.

 

I agree there are huge differences between the two projects, and many reasons that this might come to nothing.

 

I just don't think "there are too many steam railways there already" is necessarily one of those reasons, and it's possible that this could find a niche. I don't know what, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out. 

 

The Welsh Highland Heritage railway seems to be providing something different from the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland and is presumably paying its way. I suspect that if it didn't exist and was proposed now people would be saying it would never work.

 

Of course there is a sizeable viaduct on the Trawsfynydd line just outside Blenau Ffestiniog - I don't know what state its in and it seems from the news story that they don't yet either...

 

But it does seem a bit of a shame that the line is just sitting there in an area that lives off tourism, with the trackbed intact (and even track still there) and just getting more overgrown. 

 

 The new WHR was built to compliment their existing railway not complete. They had detailed, public plans for the whole project including what stock they would use. Despite all their enthusiasm and effort the volunteer WHR(64) co never got much beyond Porthmadog in 30yrs.

 

 

Wasn't that largely due to legal obstacles to taking over the trackbed, and once they were resolved didn't the old Welsh Highland construct a fair amount of the line which was then handed over to the Ffestiniog once it was complete to Caernarvon?

[coachmann]

The PW bed needs attention to drainage and lots of other things but at least the track is still in situ. Even if it only ran to Llan Festiniog station, it would be a decent run through beautiful scenery andf there is land there for storage and a shed. Llan F. is a village too. Extended onward there is Maentwrog Road which retains a good shed and land for further storage. Better car parking too in the yard. Trawsfyneed itself requires development and I rather suspect the line would need to go beyond the old nuclear crane (and possibly contaminated ground) to a place where the land opens out for the construction of a station.

 

I photographed and filmed this line as much as anyone. A Pannier and a couple of coaches would be ideal. No doubt a new terminus would need to be built in the cutting just outside of Blaenau Central station but it would only be a short walk from there to the Traws trains. I hope it comes off......It has been talked about for some years now.

 

Larry Goddard

Edited September 23, 2016 by coachmann

[RJS1977]

I'm not quite sure where the crane is/was but when I visited Traws earlier this year, the area round the lake appeared to be being developed as some sort of country park so maybe that would be a good southern terminus.

 

As for rolling stock, I know the Llangollen railway hire out 6430 and an autocoach from time to time - just down the road!

[coachmann]

As for rolling stock, I know the Llangollen railway hire out 6430 and an autocoach from time to time - just down the road!

Just down the road is how we talk in Wales.  My wife "pops" into Llandudno for things and its 15 miles away. We had a difference perception of distance when we lived in Oldham. Popping down to Manchester was around 8½ miles and so 15 miles could take one through Ashton, Hyde, Stockport and still leave some miles to spare! Popping from Trawsfynedd  into Llangollen is around 38 miles.

[RJS1977]

Just down the road is how we talk in Wales.  My wife "pops" into Llandudno for things and its 15 miles away. We had a difference perception of distance when we lived in Oldham. Popping down to Manchester was around 8½ miles and so 15 miles could take one through Ashton, Hyde, Stockport and still leave some miles to spare! Popping from Trawsfynedd  into Llangollen is around 38 miles.

 

We've (Cholsey & Wallingford Railway) hired 6430 three times so compared to us, Traws is "Just down the road" from Llangollen!

[coachmann]

A short slip of 6430 last Saturday.....Easy to imagine it at Trawsfynedd..........

[Ohmisterporter]

Trawsfynydd is on the list for building a Small Modular Reactor power station, so IF it ever gets close to fruition NR will perhaps want to run trains over the line again. This being so, the preservation group should be looking to NR to help with any track rebuilding costs. On the other hand, off the top of my head I cannot think of any other preserved lines that have nuclear flask trains running over them. 

 

http://nuclearmatters.co.uk/2016/05/small-modular-reactors-to-bring-new-life-to-trawsfynydd/

Edited September 27, 2016 by Ohmisterporter

[coachmann]

Trawsfynedd is on the list for building a Small Modular Reactor power station, so IF it ever gets close to fruition NR will perhaps want to run trains over the line again. This being so, the preservation group should be looking to NR to help with any track rebuilding costs. On the other hand, off the top of my head I cannot think of any other preserved lines that have nuclear flask trains running over them. 

I very much doubt the two are compatible Geoff. NR have set paths for their trains, then of course there could be out of course trains bringing in perhaps more construction materials. Would a heritage line then re-structure its passenger timetables to suit? And what if a heritage trains 'sits down' and delays a nuclear train....Litigation.  We will have to wait and see.

Edited September 26, 2016 by coachmann

[Zomboid]

Nuclear trains tend to run once a week. Actually I see that as a possible bonus for the preservationists, as they won't have to be responsible for most of the track etc, and I'm sure they'd be able to clear their toys away on Thursdays.

Of course, they'd have to be subject to similar regulations to the NYMR (but that provides a precedent at least for a sharing arrangement).

[Coryton]

I very much doubt the two are compatible Geoff. NR have set paths for their trains, then of course there could be out of course trains bringing in perhaps more construction materials. Would a heritage line then re-structure its passenger timetables to suit? And what if a heritage trains 'sits down' and delays a nuclear train....Litigation.  We will have to wait and see.

 

If it does all happen then there are two obvious options:

 

1) NR owned line that permits heritage services to run when appropriate

2) Line sold by NR to private organisation that both runs heritage services and also allows freight to operate over it.

 

Either way I could see a heritage railway being very accommodating if it was worth their while.

 

Some precedent for both in the UK, but admittedly NOT involving nuclear traffic.

 

Edited to add a strategic NOT in the previous sentence.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Coryton