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Class67005

Scaling for 10 1/4'

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What is the recommended scaling for 10 and 1/4 inch railways. I've looked at what would be a direct scale down to be the same as track gauge. My working being 1435mm/260mm, so scale should be something like 1:5.519... I thought about 1:10, but that make most loco bodies smaller than the track gauge. What is the recommended scale?

 

Thank You in Advance

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The nearest actual scale is 2 1/4" to the foot - but the most commonly used scales tend to be either 2 3/8" or often 2 1/2" in order to get a more practical loco.

 

This was a drawing I did to illustrate the difference of the three primary scales:

 

dd7a48f729f3017407101a9dd60be448_zpslyyp

Edited by Giles
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The nearest actual scale is 2 1/4" to the foot - but the most commonly used scales tend to be either 2 3/8" or often 2 1/2" in order to get a more practical loco.

 

This was a drawing I did to illustrate the difference of the three primary scales:

 

dd7a48f729f3017407101a9dd60be448_zpslyyp

Ahh, I presume you are Giles of http://www.gilesfavell.seriouslyinternet.com/Scale.htm. FYI, all the pages currently present HTTP 403 Forbidden Errors.

 

I've tried 2 1/4", however I appear to be having scaling issues. (53ft*2 1/4=119.25 Inches).+( 2/3 of a foot(8 inches)*2 14=1.5Inches.) That makes a Class 73(with buffers extended) 120.75 inches long. That seems overly long. What's the scale on the 10 1/4" Model of Starlight?, that seemed much more reasonable. Either that or I am making a major error somewhere? Is there anything smaller?

 

Thanks in Advance

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I'm metric too, but it makes it a little easier. Nonetheless, I don't have the space for that! I saw a 10 1/4 inch ?B1? Steam loco a while back, which if at any of those scales would've been huge, so I think it might be possible to go smaller. 1:8 scale appeared as if it would fit.

Edited by Class67005

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When I thought, briefly, about going this way, rather than persisting with 45mm gauge, when we moved to a new house with a 'Virgin' garden, my thoughts focused on 2/3 scale representations of Heywood 15" gauge stock, which gives a fairly practical sort of vehicle-size, a wagon about the size of a wheelbarrow.

 

Some days, I wish I'd bitten the bullet and done it.

 

Kevin

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If you want a smaller loco, surely the answer is to go for a lesser gauge than 10.25"? A Class 73 should be easy enough, given it's boxy shape, at a smaller scale/gauge. But the driver would have to ride on it rather than in it.

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Is our OP wedded to representing standard gauge, and what sort of space is available for this exercise?

 

A few visits, if not made already, can give a good idea of the achievable, in spaces ranging from a suburban back garden, to "a modest country estate" ......... Standard gauge at 10 1/4" being far better suited to the latter than the former, but narrow/minimum gauge being perfectly feasible in the former.

 

K

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Minimum scale for the gauge seems like a good idea. I reckon it's something like 1:8. This is the loco I speak of in reference: 

 

It certainly isn't the smallest 2 1/4 to the foot, as that would make it 20.125 inches in width, from an original maximum width of 9 foot. So it begs the question, there must be something smaller, it was 12, 14 inches in width at most. That would be much more reasonable. I await people's replies, but would also like to give thanks to all those who have contributed so far. Your input has been very useful. Thanks,

 

Mark

Edited by Class67005

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Mark,

 

In theory you can have any scale you want on 10 1/4" gauge, but the further you get away from from the correct scale the more out of proportion it becomes. A 1/8th model will be running on the equivalent of a 6' 10" track gauge so the proportions of the loco are going to have to be severely compromised to get the body width to cover the bogies. The problem is probably less apparent on a steam loco than a diesel, where the body is close to the bogies.

 

My view, for what it's worth, is that you either go for 10 1/4" gauge with a scale that's somewhere close, (down to 2 14"/ft), or revise your aspirations to 7 1/2" gauge with 1/8th scale. - A 'broad gauge' class 73 is likely to look a bit strange. This problem is only going to continue to repeat iteself with every piece of rolling stock or loco you build. Given you haven't yet got any track built there's still time to consider a more appropriate gauge if you haven't got enough room for 10 1/4"

 

Peter

Edited by peter220950

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What scale is that excellent class 60 that is being built to this gauge. There has been a few pictures of this loco in various magazines and some are hard to distinguish from a full sized one

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I agree with the above post, the point being that 2 1/4" to the foot will give the least distorted or most accurate proportions.  Moving up the scales to 2 1/2" to the foo, the look of the locomotive will become more like 00 model railways (ie the track gauge is too narrow but acceptable to many).  In general the inaccuracy is to a certain extent hidden by the bogies / coupling rods etc.  However, if you're looking to go seriously far in the other direction, then you will find it difficult to get a realistic representation of a mainline locomotive as the bogies / axles will start to be wider than the body unless you distort its dimensions.

 

A scale of 2" to the foot  (ie 1:6) would be equivalent to a track gauge of 5' 1.5", which is not far off the 5' 3" track gauge in Ireland.  Given that some ex-BR stock runs there, I would have thought that 2" to the foot would have been a reasonable scale to work to, but that is still massive.  If you want 1:8, then I agree you should reconsider your track gauge.

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Thank you everyone for their replies. I have been questioning how far I could reasonably go to reduce the length, but one thing still bugs me. That V2 ought to be much longer that the planned Class 73, the real thing being 66' 5 1/8". Just 66 foot would be 148.5 inches long, which the Starlight model certainly wasn't. Nonetheless you have all given me major options to consider and I thank everybody for their input on the topic.

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1/8 scale (1 1/2" : ft) is correct (classically) for 7 1/4" gauge.

 

'Starlight' is owned by Jon Littlechild, and she's probably best part of 20" wide

 

For 2 1/4" scale, devide the full size dimension by 5.3333, and for 2 1/2" devide by 4.8

Edited by Giles

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Mark,

 

In theory you can have any scale you want on 10 1/4" gauge, but the further you get away from from the correct scale the more out of proportion it becomes. A 1/8th model will be running on the equivalent of a 6' 10" track gauge so the proportions of the loco are going to have to be severely compromised to get the body width to cover the bogies. The problem is probably less apparent on a steam loco than a diesel, where the body is close to the bogies.

 

 

It's even less apparent on a model of a broad gauge steam loco....

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JP

 

I thought the loco looked as if it might be a 'standard design', possibly a Greenly one, with V2-esque detailing, but it was hard to get a proper look at it.

 

And, OT I know, because it is 7.25", but a plug for the Bekonscot Light Railway. It is a mega-ingenious line in a very small area, comparable in size to many ordinary gardens; just try working out the track-plan from the video. https://www.bglr.org/category/bekonscot-railway/

 

K

Edited by Nearholmer
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I think I have made a decision, based on every bodies useful advice. While I didn't want to have such as massive loco, it would appear that is what will have to be done. Fortunately I have the space to construct it, the larger size however means that it will not be able to travel as much as hoped. I have chosen 2 1/4" for the scale, and hope to progress soon, with the completion of a new shed to house it.

 

Nearholmer, that is an impressive track.

 

Thank you all for your valuable input on this topic. I hope to post more updates in this thread with the progress of the engine.

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There's a fair few 10 1/4 railways about - many of whom will welcome a visiting loco, and various people well used to moving them about as well.

 

It's great fun, and they're very satisfying in their size - also being no more complicated to build than a 7 1/4 loco ( I might argue that they were actually easier...)

 

There is of course the 10 1/4" society, small and fledgling compared to the 7 1/4 society, but its membership are full of practical owners and builders.

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The size really helps with the engine. It's rather large and tall. The first task is removing the lawn shaving attaching, and fixing some gear arrangement to put the power into a generator, from a vertical axle into a horizontal axle. I need to buy some bevel gears soon. I think I'm going to have take apart the engine to get it off.

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I always thought you divided the gauge desired 10.25 into the 1:1 gauge 56.5 which gives 5.51 as the divisor.

 

The divide 12" by 5.51 to give 2.18"/ft.

 

Always nice to use Inches per foot, so much better than a ratio which you have to convert to make into a meaningful number for building your chosen model.

 

(16mm/ft was a simple 2' gauge represented by O gauge track 32mm hence 16mm/ft but it's a bu99er as a ratio 1:19.06 as is 15mm/ft and it's 1:20.3 ratio or G-scale at 1:22.5)

 

BUT why would you want to 'scale' a 10.25 loco?

 

All the handles, knobs and grips need to be turned by 1:1 scale handies what the average human is fitted with.

 

Not many build scenic roundy roundy lines they tend to be leisure and fun lines from Pier to Lifeboat station and similar destinations.

 

It's a strange hobby and a broad church, railway muddling, which I suppose is why we all do it.

 

BUT it throws up some curious points about the personalities of those involved and what drives them.

 

I appreciate the models for what they are. Representations of the 1:1 that live in a drawer or display case at home.

 

I enjoy them for their ability to keep me entertained and in a little escapist world of my own creation.

 

There are as many answers for WHY, as there are modellers.

 

The answer to WHY?

 

Usually begins 'Because...'

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If I had the space (and money), I would go with 7 1/4" narrow gauge. :)

 

441608-217957-14.jpg?v=4

Edited by Night Train

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Hi,

I'm a 10 1/4" driver. Exact scale models are rare in this gauge, though there are a few decent attempts. Even if based on a real prototype, locos of this size are usually built for practicality rather than exact scale.

 

IMG_0525.JPG.37597f066399415831500e61c7bb26f9.JPGIMG_0526.JPG.9a4f3cfe7e3d72dae2adb32c8e58547f.JPG

 

Those pictured have oversized controls, firebox doors and boiler tubes for practicality. Most locos are "a bit" oversized as it more practical to sit IN them, rather than ON them. Which I accept makes them look a bit like OO models. Roughly 1/5 scale, or 2.5"/ft are more typical (yes, I know those are not the same)

 

And btw, the 2 pictured above have scale flanges, which really struggle on most 10 1/4" lines. So I'd go for well oversized.

 

Gryffron

(My pictures)

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Agreed - most locos are 'over-scale' in order to benfit from the size.

The 10 1/4" Society has defined wheel profile standards, and I believe, wheel gauges available.

 

Here is my old web-site re-located.

http://gilesfavell.com/giles railway site.htm

 

 

This gives a variety of information on the subjct.

Edited by Giles

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