Model Railway Speed World Record

[andyman7]

Would the Triang Battle Space Turbo Car be eligible?

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

Triang Battle Space Turbo Car!!!!

Oh my goodness. I've never heard of that before. It's amazing!!

Been watching videos. It's so fast.

I'm going to build a copy of it. Wonderful. Thank you for mentioning it.

Rob

Edited September 21, 2016 by How about a Dictator Loco Class?

[ejstubbs]

Magnetic rail gun, or rocket power, they're the ways to go fast. Either could be applied to a model railway.

 

But, what constitutes a "model railway speed record", by which I'm not asking what a speed record is, but what constitutes a "model railway"?

 

If I somehow contrived to connect a 0.303 bullet to a lump of lead, mounted on two 00 wheel sets, then fired it down a dead-straight track, would that be a model railway?

 

Or, simply generated a decent explosion inside a closed vessel, with a plug, tightly fitted to a hole, as the only outlet, with said plug being connected to 'vehicle' as above?

 

Kevin

 

(My ideas should not be tried in a garden shed, without deep forethought)

 

You have quite elegantly and eloquently captured there the core of the problem with the illogical concept of "scale speed".

 

Of course there's nothing to stop people having fun by trying to make something that looks vaguely like a prototype vehicle go ridiculously fast on 16.5mm gauge track, but it's nonsense to then multiply its actual speed by 76.2 and assert that the result of that arithmetic actually means anything.  By that logic you could put an HO bodyshell on the same chassis, multiply its speed by 87 instead and use that to claim that the HO model is going 14% faster!

 

Perhaps a different term could be adopted to express the idea that is currently so poorly described as "scale speed".  What the idea boils down to could be expressed as: the speed that the prototype would achieve if it travelled its own length in the same time that the model does.  So perhaps something like "model speed"?

Edited September 22, 2016 by ejstubbs

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

That though is very wordy and not a common phrase. It may be obvious to you what that means but I reckon nobody on rmweb would fail to grasp what the phrase 'scale speed' means.

You have a right to your opinion though!

And if many people/or the majority of people back you up, then I'll try follow your guidance.

 

If faults are to be picked with the concept I'd say is should be called, fastest model train (scale speed)

And not 'fastest model railway' as it's not a mobile layout thundering down some tracks.

 

Done some interesting speed tests last night and baught some new bits from Charlie at Railtech who I visited today. Charlie recommend silicone spray to try as lubrication over oils.

 

24volts gave a 24% speed increase.

 

I'll buy new high power and rpm motors tomorrow.

I'll post my new speeds later.

Then a versatile, light 3d printed, adjustable, test chassis needs to be quickly drawn and ordered.

With simple active aerodynamics retrofittable.

[Zomboid]

If the concept of "scale speed" is going to be used, it'll have to be a scale model of something.

That's the kind of thing where things could get complicated quickly...

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

Suggestions on prices and places to buy, plus specs on motors would be handy please?!

Atm just suggestions better than the 38,500 King 38 NSR 310g.cm 12V to 49,000rpm Palmer slot car motors I've seen. Thank you!

 

Similar info would be good for ball races that 00 axles can run with!

As kindly suggested by Stephen (bertiedog)

 

I'll be building a LiPo powered high rpm fan driven model tonight. As kindly suggested by andyman7, like the wonderful Triang battle space turbo car.

Edited September 22, 2016 by How about a Dictator Loco Class?

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

If the concept of "scale speed" is going to be used, it'll have to be a scale model of something.

That's the kind of thing where things could get complicated quickly...

Now that is a good and fair comment!

Just scale tracks isn't really enough is it.

Thank you!

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

A large steam powered breakdown crane maybe (-:

[bertiedog]

This would be eligible..........

 

 

The Zeppelin Schienenzeppelin world record fastest, (it still stands) petrol driven train from 1930's

[PatB]

As with Land Speed Records I reckon you should have different categories. For example you could have separate classes for clockwork, electric and live steam propulsion, with sub-classes, for electrics, of self-contained power, two rail pick-up and overhead pick-up. Steam could be divided into reciprocating, turbine and, perhaps, jet reaction drive. A class for internal combustion could utilise some of the staggeringly powerful little two-stroke model aero engines now that the RC aircraft world has gone extensively electric. Now there's a thought. IC powered tethered cars are exciting little beasties. Something similar running on a suitably banked circle of track might be fun .

 

If you go so far that it doesn't at least vaguely resemble something recognisable as a model train, though, I think it misses the point a bit, just as I don't recognise anything post Donald Campbell as a proper World Land Speed Record, because the final incarnation of Bluebird was the last WLSR holder that was, recognisably if somewhat remotely, a motor car

Edited September 22, 2016 by PatB

[bertiedog]

For shear lunacy, the 148mph Budd NYC.....

 

 

Yes they put two jet engines on top of a railcar!

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

Off Youtube

 

Edited September 22, 2016 by bertiedog

[Zomboid]

That would have been... Hazardous at Grand Central...

[Zomboid]

If you go so far that it doesn't at least vaguely resemble something recognisable as a model train, though, I think it misses the point a bit, just as I don't recognise anything post Donald Campbell as a proper World Land Speed Record, because the final incarnation of Bluebird was the last WLSR holder that was, recognisably if somewhat remotely, a motor car

They're land speed records, because they were achieved in a vehicle which was rolling along the ground.

Though whether something like Bloodhound or Thrust SSC could be considered a "car" is debatable.

Has a train ever held the land speed record? I imagine before WW1 some train or other was the fastest thing to travel on land.

[Classsix T]

Re: the Buddy Hellfire. It's fitted with horns, and they say the Americans don't understand irony!

 

C6T.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Classsix T

[bertiedog]

The car speed records are both fully recognised, at the time of Donald Campbell's record it was not considered that a vehicle without powered wheels would be used, as a plane could in theory be used running along the ground.

 

So Campbell's record still stands in it's class, but it took 30 years to get the rocket/jet powered cars to register a record outside the US. Also the jet cars used three wheels in several designs and this was classed separately to four wheeled cars, causing further confusion.

 

Quite where the 6 wheeled Thunderbolt stood in the rules per war was not raised as it had powered wheels.

 

 

What is certain and obvious from the 60's is that it is a UK pastime that we dominate, somewhat surprising when you consider the US companies backup is not used much in their attempts.

 

However it seems the reason is that many in the US consider it old fashioned to attempt speed records, when aircraft go so much faster. In the days of Thunderbolt it could overtake almost any pre-war plane, and was even used to test airbrake design.

 

Stephen

[inglenookfan]

I reckon a little lathe should be purchased(cheap chinese bench thing) for making axles to fit small sealed bearings and I am thinking home brew wheels that are flanged front and back for stability.  I would definitely separate the driving wheels from the pick ups and tyre bands for grip. 

 

Like alot of things; resistance is a problem. You have mechanical, wind, heat and electrical in this case. The 'test mile' and lead up track needs to be as straight and flat as is possible. The track needs to have as little variance of voltage along its whole length and of the best material for conductivity. Same goes for anything involved on the electrical side of things regarding resistance and conductivity. Weight isnt a prob if you can have a run up so maybe maybe make a bespoke flat floor(low CofG) out of alloy to use as a heat sink for the motor(s) which may see little gain in performance over such short runs but should extend the life of the motor(s). The flat alloy floor is good for aero, longevity, and stability all in one go.

 

Aero is cheap to experiment with. Flat bottom the underneath as above, fair in the wheels and flush glaze or tape windows etc. Every surface jut needs to be smooth step/indent free and no sharp changes from one surface to another. Hatchbacks please leave the room!

.

As with alot of performance things(machine or human) there is alot to be had in marginal gains, once they are all added up, before lashing out on expensive shiny bits.

 

Inglenookfan       

[sandwich station]

Wow I've never heard of that HO HST!!

 

I think it was a Eurostar not an HST.

[ejstubbs]

That though is very wordy and not a common phrase.

 

How is "model speed" more 'wordy' than "scale speed"?

 

The point is that the common phrase ("scale speed") represents an illogical and flawed concept.

 

If faults are to be picked with the concept I'd say is should be called, fastest model train (scale speed)

 

Just "fastest model train" would be honest.  As I argued above, if you try to invoke "scale speed" in the comparison then you could take the same train and make it 'faster' by putting a smaller-scale bodyshell on it (of a bigger prototype vehicle if necessary, to accommodate the drive mechanism).  That's clearly a nonsense.

[ParkeNd]

Just as the world's fastest motor vehicle is a rented Transit van, then surely the world's fastest model train is one where a 5 year old boy has got hold of the controller.

[adb968008]

And after your finished with the model railway rainhill trials.... you can always wrap up with a Bachmann Gandy Dancer.

 

http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=66_68_181

Edited September 23, 2016 by adb968008

[adb968008]

I have rocket motors in my bedroom ....

 

 

I find this line a bit worrisome :-)

[Doorslammer]

DRS Group 7 or Group 20 motors would be a must!

[PatB]

They're land speed records, because they were achieved in a vehicle which was rolling along the ground.

Though whether something like Bloodhound or Thrust SSC could be considered a "car" is debatable.

Has a train ever held the land speed record? I imagine before WW1 some train or other was the fastest thing to travel on land.

 

Regardless of whether they comply with the strict definition, I still don't consider them "proper", whatever the governing authorities might say .

 

When City of Truro came down Wellington Bank in 1904 the ton had already been exceeded by the motor car, but there were certainly several US claimants to 3 figures prior to 1900, which is certainly ahead of the car, although how credible any of them are might be open to debate.

 

Of course, there are some fairly quick animals around but for this to make any sense we probably need to narrow the field to things, whether animal or mechanical, made to go fast at the instigation of humans. That being so, I guess, for the period between rail conveyances exceeding the speed of a galloping horse or a greyhound (say 40mph; a barrier broken fairly early in main line railway development) and road vehicles (or their close relatives) getting up speeds comparable to fast locomotives in the first year or two of the 20th century, an express train was the fastest thing to move on the surface of the earth.

[Wacol]

Reading an old Hornby-dublo advert for the then new ringfield motor, they stated that the 2-8-0 FREIGHT locomotive pictured

would be able to exceed 130 scale mph. Obviously they new what a 5 year old boy would do with it.