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jimmysbow

Q stock questions/ help please

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Hello

 

Can anyone help me with the following please:-

 

Does anyone have a photo of the bogies/ underframe of a Q35 trailer car you can share with me?

 

and a photo of the Q23 car that has been converted to a trailer car, when these coaches were converted were the bogies changed and were the driving car windows blanked off?

 

Many thanks in advance

 

John

 

 

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There's a useful Facebook group "Early Surface Stock" which you may find interesting.

Member Adam Bailey wrote this on the subject:-

'Most of the under frame equipment was removed except for some of the equipment. The motors, fuses and shoe beams were also removed. The A2 former motor bogies were retained as they were in the Q31/35 conversions. In reality these cars were not destined to last much longer so little extra work was carried out. The headlight shutters probably remained with the guards and drivers doors locked. The guards panels were removed and used on six P stock motors which were known as P1 stock until converted to CP stock. The drivers equipment was also removed. I don't know if the J door was retained nor the handbrake but I support it would have been both or neither!'

 

Others remembered riding in the empty cab so the J door and handbrake must have been removed. Some of the Q23s retained their cab windows whilst others had them paneled over as in these photos.  

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Hi Clive

 

Thanks for taking the time to share this info and photos with me. I will check out that facebook group. I have decided to have a crack at building some Q stock so am very grateful for this.

 

Best Regards

 

John

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There's also the Facebook group for the District Line past and present which has just had a series of Q stock pictures posted.

 

Someone made a resin kit for the Q23 motor coach, I've got one in my "nearly finished" box of bits. dimensionally it varies a bit form the Skinley blueprint I have , but then they weren't always 100% accurate. the bogies in that kit were totally wrong as they were from standard stock! I cut down some Triang BR Mk1 bogies to represent the Q stock bogies.

Edited by roythebus
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Hello

 

Thanks

 

I will check out that F/B group.

 

With regards to Q stock bogies I am thinking of maybe doing some surgery on a couple of bogie sides to produce both types using them as a basis for a mould then having a try at resin casting. I am going to use the MJT compensated bogie frames which go together and run well as the basis for the bogies and tweak the wheelbase of the bogie frames to suit.

 

I have some Q stock bodies on order from Mousa (Bill Bedford) which should be arriving in a few weeks.

 

Have had a major rethink about my modelling over the last couple of months and have decided to go with a London based Very early BR(ER)/LT layout. About 20 years ago I was involved in exhibiting a BR/LT layout 'Grove Park' with the Weston Railway Modellers. It was built by some fantastic modellers and I especially like the LT element so it kind of feels right to gravitate back to it.

 

Cheers

 

John

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I have some Q stock bodies on order from Mousa (Bill Bedford) which should be arriving in a few weeks.

 

I keep looking at his website but can't find them! What type of Q are they?

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I keep looking at his website but can't find them! What type of Q are they?

They are here http://mousa.biz/fourmm/coach/etches/LT/lt4.html

 

G Stock became Q23,.

 

K Stock became Q27,

 

L Stock became Q31.

 

And for the sake of completeness, both M and N Stock became Q35, whilst Q38 was the variant of the O/P stock specifically designed to work with Q23/27/31/35 stock.

Edited by GoingUnderground
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They are here http://mousa.biz/fourmm/coach/etches/LT/lt4.html

 

G Stock became Q23,.

 

K Stock became Q27,

 

L Stock became Q31.

 

And for the sake of completeness, both M and N Stock became Q35, whilst Q38 was the variant of the O/P stock specifically designed to work with Q23/27/31/35 stock.

Thanks, I was looking for resin bodies, not etches!

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Just to add regarding the Q23 trailer conversions - it appears after some research that most of the Q23 motors converted to trailers where East end cars. This was to balance the situation and reduce the overall number of cars needed.

 

The G stock cars were of course built with hand operated doors, and end windows at the trailing end. This was the location of the guard on hand work door trains and ultimately proved useful when the two G23 Acton shuttle cars were converted - no doubt Q23 stock was used to reduce the conversion cost.

 

Like the F stock, when the G stock was converted to air doors becoming Q23 stock, the guards end windows had to be blanked over - crudely it must be said - so the guards panels could be mounted. This was really the only option - the metal draught screen opposite were too thin and meant the guard would be facing the rear of the train. Also it was easier to fit the wiring at the car end.

 

The two excellent photos appear to demonstrate this - these blanked off panels are the trailing end anyway and give no clue to the subsequent work carried out in 1958. The giveaway? The two cars are 'D' end cars. The trailing K2 bogies are at this end and the chunky A2 former motor bogies at the other - retained for cost - no doubt can be seen. The A ends are visible closest to the camera with inner end pipe arrangement and the non-amended ward coupler without disengaging surround (it is said after an incident at Whitechapel!!) The guards porter buttons are also visible proving these are original trailing ends.

 

The last photo is not clear but very helpful. This car was 4159 a former D end car and previously involved with experimental door fault lights. The pipe locations and A2 leading bogie indicate that the former cab area and windows are retained. 

 

The day light through the cab window and glazing bar of the first saloon window indicates the 'J' door was removed and I can therefore assume all cab equipment (handbrake et al) aso went. I cannot tell if the marker light shutters where removed as the photo is not clear.

 

Interestingly, the standard stock control trailers converted to trailers had the shutters retained but sealed up.

 

I hope this helps.

 

I have a few Q stock cars from Radley Models. They are pretty good but not perfect as they are older kits revised. There is a Q23, Q27 and Q38 motor available and Q31/35 and Q38 trailer also available. The Q38 stock can also be converted to O/P/CO/CP stock but that's another story........ 

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Have a look at the FB District Line Past and Present group, there's been a few photos of Q stock on there recently.

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some useful photos showing opposite end, and fact that some were blanked off, some not.

I have just done my own design for 3D printing  of the Q23 bodies for HO scale , primarily, but intend to resise down to 3mm/ft and both 2mm and N scale. Probable a 4mm scale one for completeness, but as I start with a 7mm scale design, I can resize to virtually any scale.

g-q23-stock1.jpg

 

Also the Q27 stock , Had some problems with length measurements, so had to adjust some

k-q27-stock1.jpg

Edited by rue_d_etropal
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just received my models(G/Q23,K/Q27 and O/P/Q38) in HO. The Q38 was the difficult one but it printed in the end. Just painting them and I will post some photos. Just need details of Q35/Q31 stock now

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Thought you might be interested in my Q Stock (One of each car G & K) that run on 'Earl's Court'

 

They are Radley bodies but with my own Styrene overlays for the sides and ends cut on a Cameo Silhouette machine.

I decided to produce overlays for two reasons. Firstly, (as mentioned in a previous post) the door and window arrangements didn't seam to match drawings I had to hand. Secondly, I wanted to achieve a more flush glazed appearance than the resin castings would allow for.

 

The chassis are Radley with a Tenshodo motor bogie. Bogie sides and underframe components are my own resin castings based on photos.

 

Sound is from John Gymer at Youchoos. Directional lights are fitted.

 

People have question how realistic is a 2 car set. Well I justify it as follows........

Firstly, prior to the cessation of the Edgware Road to Kensington (Addison Road) shuttle in 1940 a two car unit was used (Although not Q stock I believe).

Secondly, in the excellent Brian Hardy book 'Underground Train File, Surface Stock 1933-1959' there is a photo of a 2 car unit (G+K) substituting for the single car units on the Acton Shuttle. In fact I have used the car numbers from this photo on my models.

 

Terry

Earl's Court Model Railway

ecmr.webs.com

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Terry,

 

your models are superb. One thing that did concern me was the reliability of drawings, and checked a few sources. There were also a few changes done over the years, especially when the Q stock was created from a mixture of older units. At the moment I can build up a 3 car train, but really want to have a Q31 or Q35 unit to create a 4 car train. Drawings for the trailer versions of these seem to be thin on the ground, and looking at photos, there are differences to the earlier driver units they were based on. I plan tomotorise the Q23(G) soI can use it as an Acton type shuttle as well. The lightweight nature of the WSF plastic means a single motor is enough to pull a long train.

Edited by rue_d_etropal

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Terry,

 

your models are superb. One thing that did concern me was the reliability of drawings, and checked a few sources. There were also a few changes done over the years, especially when the Q stock was created from a mixture of older units. At the moment I can build up a 3 car train, but really want to have a Q31 or Q35 unit to create a 4 car train. Drawings for the trailer versions of these seem to be thin on the ground, and looking at photos, there are differences to the earlier driver units they were based on. I plan tomotorise the Q23(G) soI can use it as an Acton type shuttle as well. The lightweight nature of the WSF plastic means a single motor is enough to pull a long train.

 

Thanks for the nice comments Simon.

 

I agree about drawings, modifications etc. My view is (with all my models) if they look a good representation of the real thing then I'm happy.

 

I would certainly be interested in more Q stock as I am just about to start a new layout which will include more underground stock. (In 4mm).

Any idea how they will compare in price to the Radley items?

 

By the way, I'm just completing the Oerlikons of yours I got via Shapeways. I did use the unit at a recent exhibition although they were not quite fully finished.

They look very good. Did take quite a bit of sanding to get the finish I wanted and I have added further detailing but I am very pleased with the final result.

Will post a thread about them over the next 7-10 days.

 

Terry

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thanks for the feedback on the Oerlikons, The amount and way you sand down varies. I tend to give a good rub with good quality sand paer(the geen stuff which does not clob). For ridges I am testing my mini drill/engraver. I now try to only use emulsion paint(it is quite thick) and it does partly cover the roughness. I find the Wilinsons matchpot paints very good,  the shade I used on the Q's was 'Nearly Famous'. Always can darken it slightly if necessary.

I deliberately leave detail off the design to make it easier to rub down.

Price of  the Q stock is slightly cheaper, but not much, mainly I think because I have aded some of the underframe. Also it depends on length of model, and a 50ft coach is not much shorter than a 57ft one. I need to do some analysis to come up with a way of estimating price if anyone asks. Width and height is about the same for all coaches.

Suspect it is slightly more than the Radley model.Also I don't include interir and other fittings. Might think of doing that at some time.  I will resize them to see. I should be setting them to be available anyway. I think from a running perspective, 3D printed models weigh less than resin, so less heavy to pull, but need extra weigh in motor car.

 

 

Models now available, for HO, 4mm/ft and 3mm/ft.

Edited by rue_d_etropal

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how hard would it be to scratch build Q23/27/31/35 stock? Is there any existing coaches with the right roof profile?

Although my 2 car set was based around Radley Body-shells I did produce my own sides and ends in styrene using a Cameo Silhouette. The roof would be the tricky bit to scratch build.

If you could find something with a similar profile as the lower roof section then I think you could add the higher sections in styrene I think.

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Although my 2 car set was based around Radley Body-shells I did produce my own sides and ends in styrene using a Cameo Silhouette. The roof would be the tricky bit to scratch build.

If you could find something with a similar profile as the lower roof section then I think you could add the higher sections in styrene I think.

Could probably done by using the model from shapeways to make a jig: https://www.shapeways.com/product/7ST3GA4ZD/o-76-district-g-q23-stock-coach?optionId=62780562

would result in a very cheap fleet!

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roof profile is always most difficult part to scratchbuild(and do the CAD design for my own Q stock ). One reason why old way was to carve a piece of balsa wood. Fewer people these days are prepared to either scatchbuild, or build a complex kit. There are some card kits around, but there you have to do the complex profile of the roof. You possibly could just use the sides and carve a roof from balsa wood, otherwise look to the future and use 3D printing, as I have done.

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roof profile is always most difficult part to scratchbuild(and do the CAD design for my own Q stock ). One reason why old way was to carve a piece of balsa wood. Fewer people these days are prepared to either scatchbuild, or build a complex kit. There are some card kits around, but there you have to do the complex profile of the roof. You possibly could just use the sides and carve a roof from balsa wood, otherwise look to the future and use 3D printing, as I have done.

Will probably try and use the diagram of your roof profile to try and build a jig and then use a frame, thanks for the suggestions though!

Edit: would it be possible to 3D print frames like tjf4375 is doing at the moment with his class 700?

Edited by croydon junction

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My main interest is in the bodies, far more info available, and most modellers are less bothered about what goes underneath(othewise there would be a mass conversion to P4).

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