South Wales Valleys in the 50s

[The Johnster]

Why didn’t I think of press studs?  The very thing needed; well done sir!

[The Johnster]

It really wasn't any trouble, either; it was fun and very satisfying.  Whether there was any long term point to it is another matter, but it has returned the favour already in the fun and satisfaction I had from doing it and will certainly do no harm!  I may embark on interior detail for more NPCCS, but I will draw the line at fully enclosed types with no windows at all...  Some may even have loads inside them!  I like this sort of modelling; it's easy to do, the challenge is to find the right materials to make screens, shelves, fittings and so on out of.

 

As of this morning, a new loco has appeared at Cwmdimbath, the Hornby 5101 orderd on Tuesday evening has arrived; well done Bure Valley Models and Parcel Farce.   More about this on the Hornby Large Prairie thread shortly.

[The Johnster]

I've had a bit of an online shopping spree, the main items of which are a Comet E147 flat ended B set coach kit, which will have to be joined by another one at a later date, and a laser cut row of terraced stone cottages from Ancorton; it's high time the village manifested itself.  There are 5 of them in the row and I'm not sure where they are going to go yet, as this will depend on the overall size.  They will probably be sited behind the station in a way that suggests that the stream runs behind them, or across the northern end of the station baseboard as if they were the other side of a road,, a location that is currently a somewhat anachronous blank wall, but behind the colliery exchange road is another possibillity.

 

The 5101 is settling in nicely and I'm hoping the transfers and number plates I've ordered for it from Railtec will turn up during the coming week; it is to be 4144, a Tondu loco for the last part of 1958.

[The Johnster]

 

Few 50s enthusiasts would have bothered with Cwmdimbath; they would head for the main line at Bridgend, or the shed and yards of Tondu, or the photogenetic Abergwynfi that was such an inspiration for this layout, but there's a good bit of action nonetheless, proven by this shot taken from the Colliery Lane overbridge, still blocked by those sheep!  4 locos are in steam in this shot: left to right, 82001 waits in the loop for her booked path with the 'Barry parcels', Tondu men bringing her up here to the distribution depot a mile down the valley where the traffic is destined after this running round move while  her Barry crew have their food break in the messroom at Tondu.  Next is the NCB's 'Forest No.1' standing clear on the colliery spur, as 4144 runs in with the evening ROF workman's from Tremains.  9642 stands on the colliery exchange road with a loaded train behind the brake van. 

 

Nobody can go anywhere until 4144 comes to a stand and the magic is done with the electric token, at which point a token can be issued to 82001's driver and that train can be on it's way, then 4144 can run around and return to Bridgend (then ecs Tondu, stable stock, and dispose loco).  At this point, 9642 can draw it's loaded coal train off the colliery exchange into the platform, clearing a path for Forest No.1 to make her way back down to the colliery to do some work!  9642 can then run around and shunt her train to the loop, as by this time an auto will be due from Tondu, then she can get away with what will be the final clearance of the day from the colliery, but there is a further train of empties due to keep the pit in empties to load into on the night shift.  This returns ebv to Tondu once the empties have been backed on to the exchange road, but is booked to carry any surplus loaded coal and any general merchandise from the colliery as required.  There's a path which is sometimes used for excursions or pigeon specials after this, which is  useful overtime for the late signalman, but normally the box shuts after this ebv movement and the home and starter signals are left off overnight.  Last train of the evening is an auto, based on the real last train to Abergwynfi, which in the early 1960 WTT got in at 23.55 after connecting with the last down Paddington of the day at Bridgend.  It was booked off Abergwynif at 00.01 ecs, but I doubt it was ever there much past 23.55 and 30 seconds...

 

This shot is take pre-1955, evidenced by the GW style of class C headcode on the 3MT, so 4144 should not really be here; she did not appear at Tondu until 1958 and the shed had no 5101 on the books at this time.  Barry got 82001 brand new in 1953, 9642 was new to Tondu in 1946, and the W4 is pure Rule 1.

[The Johnster]

 

OMG just look at the state of that telegraph pole...

 

Postman delivered goodies this morning, this is from 'Scalelology' and is an Ancorton laser cut wooden kit for a row of 5 stone built terraced cottages, wot I maid this evening.  Lechyd Terrace, as it will be called, after the stream which will appear to flow behind it, pretty much flew together, an ideal example of what I think kits should be for, saving distribution costs by flatpacking and not consisiting of too many pieces, or the other extreme, containing every part discrete so that some understanding of how the original was built can be gained.  It is not perfect; I haven't used the low relief chimney stacks because they have identical stonework on each one, and I don't like the tiled roof, slate is much more likely in South Wales and I will be making separate slate roofs for each cottage.

 

There are plenty like this in the area, and in fact a row not far from me in Cardiff, Cumnock Terrace, built by the South Wales Railway in the late 1840s and one of the oldest terraced rows in the city, is very similar.  I will take a stroll over there tomoz and check out what arrangements are in place for gutters and downpipes.  Interiors are a living room entered directly from the street door, with the fireplaces on the opposite dividing wall, a kitchen room at the back, and a staircase going up inside a stair cupboard between the living room and kitchen, leading to a front and back bedroom on the upper floor.  'Facilites' are in the back yard and probably no tap for running water.  Bathing is done in a tin (actually zinc) bath in front of the kitchen fire.  Even modernised cottages of this type still have no h & c or drainage/sewage upstairs, the usual arrangement is an extension to include the outside wc and a shower unit and water heater installed alongside it.  I can remember visitin Valleys relatives in cottages much like this as a child.

 

The kit is by no means all bad, though; the stonework is well represented and there is a choice of doors and windows, though I'd have liked spares and more choice.  The 1950s was the golden age of net curtains, horrible things that attract dust and cut light levels down, I hated/hate them.  One of the windows looks supspiciously modern and double glazed, but I think we'll get away with it; the trick here is to paint the frame so that it doesn't look like white pvc. 

 

Plenty of work to do; the kit doorsteps are not on yet and there will be selective lighting and the suggestion of interiors where curtains are not drawn.  No tv aerials; this sort of place had to wait until cable days for receptions and the inhabitants of Lechyd Terrace would have been unliklely to have been able to afford tvs.  One or possibly two will look a little run down, and nobody here is likely to be well off.  These cottages might well be rented, and upkeep the tenants' responsibility, so there should be some evidence of diy bodgery.  In those days, it was almost universal that doors and window frames were a mid green as this paint had been easily and cheaply available in the post war austerity economy.  3 out of my 5 doors are replacements, again pushing things a bit, this sort of improvement didn't really catch on until the 60s.  Visible through windows will be big old dark wood wardrobes in bedrooms, flowery wallpaper, flowery 3 piece suites etc.  There would certainly have been Welsh Dressers, but in the flagstoned kitchens at the back.  One or two probably still have gas lighting in the 50s!  I doubt anyone has a phone either, so no need to bother with distribution poles and terminals as the residents use the public box on the platform.

 

This is probably the best position for them, and will transform the 'town' end of the layout, and hopefully draw the eye away from the gap at the northern. left hand, end where there is supposedly a village, with shops, post office, pubs, chapels, a miner's institute, and rows of terraces up the mountain, backed by the mountaim.  As yet this only exists in my imaginiation and will only be 'suggested' when it is built, but we've made a start...

 

Painting will be to match the local Pennant Sandstone with slate blocks for the lintels and doorsteps, and the grouting will need doing on most of them.  Not a perfect kit but a good starting point and not bad for the money.  They are angled slightly in towards the left, to enhance the impression that the valley, already steep and narrow, is getting steeper and narrower towards it's northern end, and indeed will have given way to high moorland within less than half a mile.  Plenty fun to be had with interiors, curtains, lights etc.  There was never any street lighting down here, and the platform lamps do the biz.

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by The Johnster

[Ian Smeeton]

Happy Christmas, Johnster,

 

Not sure if you have come across these two on Youtube.

 

Some nice footage & photos, even if some of the film is from farther away than might be .

 

 

and 

 

 

Regards, & have a glass 

 

Ian

[The Johnster]

Grand stuff, and the subtitle captions are brilliant...

[The Johnster]

Current state of play for Lechyd Terrace, first part of the working up of the town end. Still no chimney stacks as I don’t like the rather halfhearted ones Ancorton supplied.  Didn’t like the roof either; tiles are much less likely than slate in the Valleys, so I made my own.  No interiors or even light baffles inside yet either, but there are net curtains (toilet tissue) and ‘proper’ curtains (painted creased foil).  A pathway leading to a gate at the southern end accessing the rear of the row, and a bridge parapet, bit of Airfix kit signal gantry filled in with boards, indicate where the little stream, Nant Lechyd, emerges from a culvert beneath the unseen rear yards of the cottages.  The half relief nature of the end of the row is a bit jarring, and I think a tree will both soften the angularity of things and distract attention.  Work in progress but this has already made a high difference to the northern end of the layout. 
 

I’ll get around to Nant Lechyd eventually, but for now it is no more than a void running behind the platform and the station buildings, then disappearing beneath a Wills plate girder parapet on the platform between the signal box and the water tower.  The wall at the northern end now looks very bare and something has to go there to represent the village and the top end of the valley, not quite sure what yet and it might develop ‘organically rather than be a planned development; something or other will happen sooner or later.  The area is triangular and very cramped, and an ‘impressionist’ approach may work best!  A shop, post office, war memorial in the middle of the 

 

 

 

[The Johnster]

In further developments and in order to divert attention from the half-relief nature of Lechyd Terrace, a Hornby tree has appeared.  A Sessile Oak is not impossible in this position and is a good old big ‘un, the last tree standing in the Dimbath Valley, well there’s prolly a few others that survived the pit prop axes, but not many will make it onto the layout 

[The Johnster]

New stock has arrived; a nearly complete Comet A43 auto trailer built by a knd friend to a very high standard, and requiring finishing off (top coat paint, glazing, interior painting, and some detail adding).  To my delight, this coach will tolerate my setrack fiddle yard curves and watching it being propelled, with an A30 between it and the loco and the buffer heads just missing each other on the curves, is a delight.  It will be finished as W 256 W in unlined crimson; I've wanted a 'Cycplops' trailer for years, and now I've got one!  I'm starting to feel that I'm breaking the back of my coaching stock needs, and am coming off the curve into the home straight!  There is already a Comet C66/75 to run as an A43 with it.

 

Lechyd Terrace has got chimneys as have the station building and the signal box (this being a replacement for one accidentally knocked off which I claim to have been blown down in a gale), some 3D printed ground signals have been painted and put in place; and there are also some 3D printed fire hydrant markers to paint and install, but these are waiting for my round tuit to arrive.  Photos of it all when the A43 has been fettled up, maybe a week or so!  i put the windows in it this evening, I mean yesterday now; it's maker had cut them out for me using microscope slide glass, and positioning them, particularly the driver's door droplights and the end compartment end windows, was precision work; enough for one night.  I glued them in with Glue'n'Glaze, which dries clear and makes a neat job of this.  Next job will be to fit the door handles and grab rails, then paint the interior, fit battery boxes and the gong, cobble up some cab detail, put some passengers inside, no smoking triangles in the compartment next the guard's van, affix number transfers, and fit lamp irons.  Then I can screw it all back together and she'll go into service; I now have enough stock for 3 two coache auto trains or 2 three coach sandwiches. 

 

I've also been refurbising an old Mainline mk1 non-gangwayed second I picked up in a junk shop, with new underframe details and a repaint into unlined crimson livery, as a loose 'strengthener'.  It was numbered as an LMR coach and will have to be renumbered as a WR one even if I can't pin down a Tondu example..  Things have certainly progressed in the 4 years since the only passenger stock was an ancient Airfix A28/30 and and equally ancient Airfix E129 B set.  I'm a bit light on brake 3rds or brake 2nds at the moment, but that will be addressed in due course.  A Comet E147, first of a B set pair, is on it's way from Hull, but may be an anomaly.  According to Chrsi Foren of this parish, who I regard as an authority in such matters, Tondu had 3 sets of these and thus they have been on my shopping list for a while, but the John Hodge books about the Tondu valleys state that all services were 3rd class, and then second under BR, only.  It is possible that this dates from the 1953 'regular interval' timetable alterations, in which case all is well...

 

So, with cottages, trees (all right, a tree), drain and service covers including fire hydrants, markers for the fire hydrants, and various bits of coaching stock in the offing, it all adds up to some not insignificant progress!

[The Johnster]

The A44 is progressing; it now has painted boges and interior, but will be held up for a while as the predrilled holes for the doorknobs and grabrails need reaming out a tad, and I have a range of exactly the wrong size drill bits for this job!  Another top coat of crimson has been applied and I am happy now with the finish, and it's looking not unlike an A44 when I put the body on the chassis.  The rear end has been painted matt black and the bell attached (I do have a suitable bit for this!).  I'll probably put the numbers on later, and the no smoking triangles, and have a look at couplings so it can be put into service pending completion; it'll be ok in low light!  There is plenty work to do on the Westdale coach should the muse take me, and everything is kept in separate project boxes.

[The Johnster]

 

A43 W 256 W leads 5524 and a pair of A30s in a 3-trailer sandwich running in past the NCB stores platform on a mid-morning working through from Bridgend.  Obviously not finished yet, bit of paint tidying and the doorknobs, grab rails, and some handrails still to do, but running trials have been passed with flying colours.  She'll also need some cab details and a driver, 

 

These 'cyclops' trailers were converted by BR in 1953 from Collett brake thirds for use in South Wales, where normal height platforms and staffed stations meant that the 'normal' type of saloon auto trailer with retractable steps were not needed.  5542 is one of a number of 4575 class small prairies fitted with auto gear at the same time, also for South Wales use; auto working in the area was extended considerably in 1953.  The train is correct for Tondu during the post 1953 period until 1960, when the 4575s were transferred away; the Valleys branches had been closed to passenger traffic and 64xx could manage the Porthcawl branch.

 

The windows in this coach are real glass, microscope slides, and the clarity compared to clear plastic is perceptible.  The coach is a candidate for a Hornby battery lighting kit to show the interior off a bit, and I am considering working up the compartments with represetnations of black and white photographs, GWR system maps, and mirrors.

Edited February 20, 2021 by The Johnster

[br2975]

John,

.

Care of a friend, I thought these may be more appropriate than on  your other thread;

.

A couple of Gerald T. Robinson images of local interest to Cwmdinbath

.

(i) 4144 leaving Cymmer (Afan) for Bridgend, early 1960s.

(ii) 3738 at Tondu, coming around the curve from Ogmore Junction.

(iii) 4169 on the R&SB, passing Duffryn Rhondda Colliery. 

(iv) 4251 at Tondu shed - photographer not known.

(v) 4298 at Tondu shed, 11th August 1957 - photographer unknown.

.

I may be able to find some more....if you are interested ?

.

Brian R

 

[The Johnster]

Wow, Brian, incredible stuff on top of the amazing shots you've already sent me!  4169 is  probably on a Neath-Treherbert working; these had corridor stock because of the length of Journey.  4251 has a pile of coal that you'd never get away with if you modelled it; never seen anything quite like it!

 

Yes please if you can dig any more out, all are of interest and information.

[The Johnster]

 

Move along there now, please, nothing to see here, everybody's seen an Airfix/Dapol/Kitmaster shed even if it is a bit unusual for them to be build by an idiot who put the windows in the wrong way round, haven't you got homes to go to....

 

The colliery loco spur, which I thought looked a bit bleak and bare, has acquired a loco shed for the Colliery's Peckett, here seen posing outside waiting for the next load of empties.  A window has been deliberately left out so that the interior can be seen, and I intend to work this up a bit with some interior gubbins; workbench, cabinets, that sort of thing.  The excuse is that the window was damaged in a gale and has been removed to the colliery workshop for repair  I am also thinking about lights for it; a lot of the NCB's loco maintenance was done on nights.  Mate of mine, Tommy Horizontal (you'll see why he picked up that nickname shortly) was a loco fitter at Nantgarw, where there were 3 Hunslets into the early 70s.  Having done a job on the handbrake linkage on one of them, and with nothing much to do for the rest of the night, he decided to 'rest his eyes' in the cabin. leaving the loco with a fire in and pressure building slowly, the handbrake not as screwed down as he thought it was, and in reverse gear. 

 

The rest of the story almost tells itself.  He was awakened, sorry, the eye resting was interrupted, by the Hunlet, it's bunker full of what had been the rear wall of the shed, reversing into the staff car park and making for the main road.  Luckily slowly enough to be caught up with and boarded before any damage was done, except for the surface shift manager's Rover 2000 which was totalled.  This was the end of Tommy's NCB career...

 

Problem with lights is the Dapol plastic, which is translucent enough to be used as a very effective lampshade, and preventing bleed is going to be difficult.  I'll just have to build up coats of cream on the interior until the light can't get through, not easy with acrylics.  Exterior lamps will be less of a problem, and a small coaling stage is planned, maybe no more than a pile of coal, a bucket, and a hoist.  The Peckett's bunker is in the left hand side of the cab, and I've put coal, real coal from Big Pit mined by Tomparryharry, in it.  Water supply is not worked out yet, maybe just a standpipe and a length of hose which would take ages to fill even the Peckett's little tank.

 

I'll probably have a go at my own roofing slates as well; this roof looks far to neat and tidy and I want to introduce some 'distressing', a few loose here and there, and maybe some algae staining from leaky gutters.  It is a huge building by Cwmdimbath standards, and dominates the central part of the layout, but is still the most NCB-like of the RTP and kit sheds available.  One could get away with something much smaller for a Peckett and there's room in there for two locos that size.  This of course means I have to buy another loco...

 

I've had to explain what loco sheds are to The Squeeze, who is absolutely delighted that locomotives have homes to live in, and now wants all my locos to have one.  Each...

[chrisf]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Wow, Brian, incredible stuff on top of the amazing shots you've already sent me!  4169 is  probably on a Neath-Treherbert working; these had corridor stock because of the length of Journey.  4251 has a pile of coal that you'd never get away with if you modelled it; never seen anything quite like it!

 

Yes please if you can dig any more out, all are of interest and information.

I don't think that's the whole story.  The details varied over the years but in winter 1956-57 two M sets had turns between Neath and Treherbert, also visiting Pontypool Road, Porthcawl, Swansea and Carmarthen in the course of their two-day diagrams.  Clearly the set in Mr Robinson's photo is not an M set!  From 1958 dmus were used on the trips over the R&SB worked from the Treherbert end.  That is how a driving motor second of what became Class 116, W50125, came to be written off in November 1959 when it was involved in a head-on collision with a pannier on a downhill coal train at Pontrhydyfen.  The ill-fated dmu was bound from Swansea to Barry Island via Treherbert - quite a long journey witb no corridors and no toilets.

 

Chris

[The Johnster]

Information useful as always, Chris.  The coal train was a runaway IIRC and the dmu driver was killed, sadly, the collision taking place in the dark.  

[Darwinian]

Johnster- regarding the light bleed problem. I assume the shed isn’t fixed down as you talk about painting the inside. Simply line the inside shell with thin white card. It will be easier to paint too. 

Not my idea, used by Faller in house kits I have from my yoof.

[The Johnster]

This sounds feasible and not difficult, probably the way to go along with building a card shade for internal lights, something like a snooker table lamp.  The shed is not fixed down but will be eventually; there is more work to be done on the interior.  As well as the various details I have in mind, there needs to be a concrete floor. 

 

Outside, current thinking is small ground level coal bunker or even just a pile on the ground (but how do we prevent pilferage; this is the South Wales valleys and the general zeitgeist was that coal was communal property there for the taking, even chapel ministers, doctors, magistrates and such joining in the pillage) and hoist for a bucket is the current plan; the hoist may be no more than a stout post with a pulley at the top and a cleat for the rope.  It needs to get the bucket to cab cut out level on the Peckett to deliver coal to the bunker. but will be capable of higher than that in case a loco with a proper bunker ever appears (does this mean Johnster is thinking about a B2 or an Austerity?  No, but never say never).  I'm thinking increasingly of a simple hose as the water supply.  NCB loco sheds in South Wales were a long way from Old Oak Common, or even Tondu; mining is a speculative business and wary of capital expenditure (which of course accounts for South Wales' appalling safety record in poorly ventilated gassy mines full of methane). 

 

 

[Northmoor]

12 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Problem with lights is the Dapol plastic, which is translucent enough to be used as a very effective lampshade, and preventing bleed is going to be difficult.  I'll just have to build up coats of cream on the interior until the light can't get through, not easy with acrylics.  Exterior lamps will be less of a problem, and a small coaling stage is planned, maybe no more than a pile of coal, a bucket, and a hoist.  The Peckett's bunker is in the left hand side of the cab, and I've put coal, real coal from Big Pit mined by Tomparryharry, in it.  Water supply is not worked out yet, maybe just a standpipe and a length of hose which would take ages to fill even the Peckett's little tank.

 

I'll probably have a go at my own roofing slates as well; this roof looks far to neat and tidy and I want to introduce some 'distressing', a few loose here and there, and maybe some algae staining from leaky gutters.  It is a huge building by Cwmdimbath standards, and dominates the central part of the layout, but is still the most NCB-like of the RTP and kit sheds available.  One could get away with something much smaller for a Peckett and there's room in there for two locos that size.  This of course means I have to buy another loco...

 

I will second the @Darwinian suggestion of lining the inside, especially the roof (which I think is a thinner section than the walls).  Also make sure your lighting is as dim as possibly, probably very realistic based on photos I've seen of South Wales Valleys colliery sheds.

 

The Airfix shed always looks tall compared to any small loco.  It's a bit of an effort but I have seen the shed cut down in height by a row of window panes and an appropriate number of brick courses, and/or by a few courses off the bottom of the walls.

 

I defy you to resist a B2 Peckett, isn't one of the variants no.1426 which was the (smaller) Brynlliw Peckett?

[The Johnster]

I believe so. And Forest No.1 began life in a foundry at Morriston in the Swansea Valley.  A B2 will be hard to prevent, but for now I must give the wallet time to recover from the shock of the 94xx; funding for all sorts of ideas will be easier once this has been achieved! I can probably resist an Austerity on the basis that it's a bit on the modern side and probably overkill for a small, but busy, pit like Cwmdimbath; anyway, my view is that industrials should have outside cylinders... 

 

If I cut the shed down it will be by 2 or 3 courses at the bottom, for simplicity and the join will be easier to hide.  The W4 certainly looks lost in there and the building dominates the central part of the layout, so this is a definite intention.  Lighting would indeed be dim, something like 60 watt filament bulbs. I'm going to use Layout4U building swan necks for the outside lights and perhaps two warm leds in the roof for the interior; the fitters did most of their work with worklamps powered off the mains, usually 40 watt bulbs.  Well it was long ago and it was far away and it was so much better than it is today.

[Darwinian]

Johnster, regarding dim lighting the Roye England/ Pensdon light tube technique works well for this.

Make a 1cm x1cm square tube of white (on the inside at least) card leaving gaps on the face where you want the light to come from.  The bigger the opening the more light but the less at openings further along.

Mount a single LED in the middle of the tube. 

 

I’ve shown the one fitted to my goods shed on my Cwmhir thread.

 

[The Johnster]

That's so crazy it might just work; thanks for the tip, Darwinian.  If it's good enough for Roye England it's good enough for me!

[tomparryharry]

A lot of 0-4-0 locomotives were one-man operated. As the bunker was insufficient to last until the next tea break, a short plank of wood would be forced into  (what would be ) the fireman's side, and coal put onto the footplate; the driver doing two jobs.  Coaling was done with a couple of buckets, and, a hosepipe from the washery tank.  

 

Sometimes a short spur of track was laid  to enable an internal wagon to gain elevation, so the person coaling a loco could 'shovel down'. Blaenavons 'Bottom Shed ' has the capacity to house 2 Peckett-sized locomotives, or an 18" Austerity, with a few feet to spare. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by tomparryharry
More info.

[The Johnster]

Cwmdimbath has acquired a new coach; after being given a single Airfix B set coach in maroon livery I decided to work it up as an ersatz D109 brake third in 1945-7 GW livery.  Very much a layout model and not yet lined as the lining must be ordered from HMRS (which will at least help to disguise my wobbly paint masking). but numbered as 5413.  I may in time rectify some of it's faults by giving it Comet D109 sides

 

 

I have made a start on the next big project, the simultaneous building of a pair of Comet E147 B set coaches.  It's been about 3 years since ChrisF gave me the information that there were 3 sets of these at Tondu, so it's not before time!  So far all I've done is fix the droplights in and built up the end boxes ready for the bodyshell to be built.  I am doing this first because Comet sides are quite thin and more easily bent out of shape than they are bent back into shape, and I will feel happier once they are part of a rigid box with the ends and roof.  I reckon the job will take me 2 or 3 months, and the train will be perfect for my new 94xx to pull.  Livery not yet decided, and I have no information about what liveries the Tondu sets carried or when, but I am thinking maybe early 1948 BR choc/cream with Gill Sans lettering and numbers with W prefix, but not suffix.