Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[Nearholmer]

Cuthbert Hamilton Ellis, yes.

 

He wrote some entertaining ‘company history’ books too, and I think a fair bit in various magazines.

[Compound2632]

C. Hamilton Ellis was an early member of the Historical Model Railway Society. He was qualified both as a technical author and an artist, being an Associate of the Institute of Locomotive Engineers and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts. I don't think his Railway Carriages in the British Isles from 1830 to 1914 has been surpassed as a general survey of the subject.

[Metropolitan H]

One of my favourite books by C Hamilton-Ellis is "The Trains We Loved", but - like my copy of FC Hambleton's "Locomotive's worth modelling" - I don't know where our family copy (was Dad's) is at present??

 

Regards

Chris H

[sncf231e]

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The one with a Trix Twin loco on the front I don’t have, but I’ve read it and I think it might have been by Twining and is more of a ‘how to’ book than a history.

 

It is by J. Joyce and not what I would call a "how to" book (but it describes how to start a collection, so maybe that is what you meant). 

 

Regards

Fred

[Nearholmer]

Ah, yes, I remember that one too.

 

Its clearly not the Twining one I was thinking of, which is older, pre-WW2, but has a similar dust jacket, but in blue, IIRC.

 

There was also a big book of colour photos, mainly very early hand-painted continental stuff, published before or about the same time as CoMT , and I have a vague idea that it might have had captions in German, French and English. Maybe it covered tin toys in general, rather than just trains. Our local library had a copy in the 1970s, but since becoming interested in old trains again I’ve never seen a copy. Any ideas what it might have been?

Edited October 29, 2020 by Nearholmer

[sncf231e]

David Pressland - The art of the Tin Toy?

Text in English only; but it was issued at about the same time as CoMT (and that is when I bought it) and has the same format (and a dust sleeve). Some years later in the same format the book on Fulgurex/Colluzi was issued.

Regards

Fred

[Nearholmer]

That could well be it, thank you.

 

TBH, I’m less into ‘collector books’ than old ‘how to’ books for modellers and, barely crossing over with these, old electrical engineering textbooks.

 

I had a major, serious, mentally-challenging book-cull in February, disposing of 95% a 40+ year collection of narrow gauge, light, and industrial railway material. I’m now trying to apply a very stern set of criteria to what I buy or keep ....... not easy!

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Nearholmer

[PatB]

14 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I think Allen Levy was a part-author or consultant on that part-work.

 

These are probably the text heavy ones, which are a strange pair, because Hamilton Ellis translated Reder (and added odd remarks of his own!) and produced his own book nearly at the same time. Reder was a retired Nazi propagandist, and Hamilton Ellis a failed British minor spy, which is an interesting mix. I wasn’t aware of these two in the 1970s, only discovering them later.

 

The one with a Trix Twin loco on the front I don’t have, but I’ve read it and I think it might have been by Twining and is more of a ‘how to’ book than a history.

The ones I'm thinking of weren't those. I have the Reder book, though haven't looked at it in a while. I don't recognise the other. 

 

The one(s) I'm thinking of were definitely of British origin, and relatively recent when I read them (late 70s). Unusually, I can remember very little about it/them. I do remember a section on the introduction of the Rovex Princess, accompanied, as I recall, by a black and white photo showing a warped acetate coach, either individually, or possibly as part of the made up train. 

 

They were smallish format (perhaps a little less than A5) and of similar thickness to the Troy Model Club books. 

 

I think some searching is in order on my part as this is bugging me now. Maybe I need to prepare myself to find out the reason I remember no detail is because they don't exist . 

 

Edit: That'll teach me to post before reading to the end of the thread. I'm pretty sure the Joyce book is the one I'm thinking of, although unreliable memory is insisting that it was one of a short series of 2 or 3. Possibly covering 00 an 0 in separate volumes? I dunno. I'm pushed enough remembering what I had for dinner yesterday, let alone the details of a book I got from the library when I was 12 . 

Edited October 29, 2020 by PatB

[brianusa]

There was a plethora of "coffee table" O gauge books at one time late in the last century probably culminating in the MTH publication of its production to that date.  A lot appeared as I was changing to tinplate so most opportune as it introduced me back to Hornby trains.  There's not so much available since as presumably the topic was well covered.

      Brian.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Would any of these books have a sizable area devoted to Bassett Lowke moguls? 

[Metropolitan H]

On 29/10/2020 at 11:16, Metropolitan H said:

One of my favourite books by C Hamilton-Ellis is "The Trains We Loved", but - like my copy of FC Hambleton's "Locomotive's worth modelling" - I don't know where our family copy (was Dad's) is at present??

 

Regards

Chris H

Well, I'm relieved to say I have found the family copy of "The Trains We Loved" - it was where I expected it to be, but I definitely could not see it there on the five (5)!!! times I looked over the last couple of days.  I blame the gremlins!!

 

Still haven't found FC Hambleton's "Locomotives Worth Modelling" yet - but I may have lent it to a friend, or put it somewhere safe??

 

Regards

Chris H

[Nearholmer]

17 hours ago, brianusa said:

There's not so much available since as presumably the topic was well covered.

 

16 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

Would any of these books have a sizable area devoted to Bassett Lowke moguls? 

Oddly enough, the one commissioner/maker whose model railway products haven’t been the subject of a really in-depth history, illustrated by oodles of colour photos and reproductions of contemporary literature, is The most important: Basset Lowke. Fuller gives some of it, but his is a much wider history/memoir, rather than a purely model railway product history.

 

I wonder if that might possibly be because the subject would be too large for anyone to cover comprehensively.

 

The best source of very detailed information is the BL Society magazine, and a lot has been published there about the steam moguls, both historical and practical.

 

Other than that, now that Mr Foster has covered the minor/pure-toy makers in his self-published books (very high standard of self-publishing), there are only quite obscure British makers now without a standard history.

 

I thought I ought to learn about Lionel, given their huge place in toy train history, but the book I came across is very strange - hundreds of pages telling you how wonderful the products were, through which are woven a fairly basic company history but, once you discount the hyperbole, very light on product history.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

Are you sitting comfortably?

 

Now, watch this https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bassett+lowke+video&&view=detail&mid=C0550B89E123444F548FC0550B89E123444F548F&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dbassett%2Blowke%2Bvideo%26FORM%3DHDRSC3

[sncf231e]

6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Oddly enough, the one commissioner/maker whose model railway products haven’t been the subject of a really in-depth history, illustrated by oodles of colour photos and reproductions of contemporary literature, is The most important: Basset Lowke.

I would call this  an in-depth history:

Regards

Fred

[Nearholmer]

Indeed it is, but I was thinking more of the absence of a product history of the model railways, rather than the miniatures, although even that brings up questions of where the boundary lies and the potential breadth of the topic.

 

[Compound2632]

16 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Are you sitting comfortably?

 

Modern 00 RTR has some way to go to match the variety of locomotives on display there. 

[Nearholmer]

Yes. The guys who put on that particular display can field mega-variety in old-style 0, but not only that: they can do the same in Gauges 1 and 2, the latter of which must make their displays unique.

[Compound2632]

Now, the one I'd really like to see in the flesh is the Bassett-Lowke 3¼" gauge Smith-Johnson compound:

 

 

But perhaps that does count as a model engineering rather tham model railway scale?

[Metropolitan H]

Yes, I too very much like the "Ravensrodd Central" display - it is a bit more than just Bassett-Lowke models on display. There is at least one pre-WW2 LNER D49 there, along with LMC locos and a lot of modern (last 25 years) locomotives and vehicles from various manufacturers such as ACE and ETS as well as B-L (under Corgi).

 

The other film that comes up here from your link - that shows even more of the B-L scope in the "Smaller" (???) scales - and is also worth a go is https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bassett+lowke+video&ru=%2fvideos%2fsearch%3fq%3dbassett%2blowke%2bvideo%26FORM%3dHDRSC3&view=detail&mid=0D83E1A3D6EBB7FD9DE60D83E1A3D6EBB7FD9DE6&rvsmid=C0550B89E123444F548FC0550B89E123444F548F&FORM=VDQVAP

[Donw]

Not sure whether it will interest you or not, one of the layouts shown on the Gauge 0 Guild virtual show is a coarse scale stud contact one. https://www.gaugeoguild.com/virtual2020/kettering.aspx

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

He seems to have managed to incorporate a bit of everything into that, and I was impressed by how what looked like modern, fine-wheeled r-t-r goods wagons were tracking faultlessly through the point-work. The stud system is a good compromise isn't it?

[Keith Addenbrooke]

20 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

He seems to have managed to incorporate a bit of everything into that, and I was impressed by how what looked like modern, fine-wheeled r-t-r goods wagons were tracking faultlessly through the point-work. The stud system is a good compromise isn't it?

The ballasting looks pretty good too - I wonder if the stud track helps with this as well (leaves more open space). 

[PatB]

Back when I was playing around with 0 gauge, coarse scale stud contact layouts were (or seemed so) relatively common among older members of the fraternity. Most seemed to have amassed their collections during the period when 0 gauge was unfashionable and so secondhand equipment could be bought, if not exactly cheaply, at least at a price accessible to anyone with a steady job and some budgeting skills. 

 

On the subject of the Mogul, it occurs to me that there hasn't really been (that I can think of) a definitive work on what is generically known as low pressure live steam. Greenly touches on it in his Model Locomotives and Model Engineering volumes, and Curly Lawrence described some examples in his many, many articles for Model Engineer, but I can't think of a comprehensive history or maintenance and management guide. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by PatB

[Nearholmer]

I think that if you look in the primarily 16mm/ft, rather than 0 scale, world, there are some books. I had two, both of which went in the clear-out, one by the US expert Marc Horovitz, and one by Peter Jones, both of which gave a good intro to design, build, operation and maintenance, as well as lots of loco-porn to look at.

[PatB]

3 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I think that if you look in the primarily 16mm/ft, rather than 0 scale, world, there are some books. I had two, both of which went in the clear-out, one by the US expert Marc Horovitz, and one by Peter Jones, both of which gave a good intro to design, build, operation and maintenance, as well as lots of loco-porn to look at.

Fair enough. I've been assuming that they've been concentrating on more sophisticated modern designs that lean more towards the "high pressure" end of things, rather than at the level of tech typified by things like the B-L Enterprise and the like.