Hawick N2, and black V2s

[Richard Hall]

Browsing through shed allocations while planning my next project and found that for nearly three years (1958-60) Hawick had a Gresley N2 0-6-2T, number 69510.  Why?  Was it sent there by mistake?  I would have thought there were enough N15s around that if Hawick really wanted a big tank loco in 1958 they could have had one of those.  And the big question - did 69510 ever work the main line?  The only photos I've found show it pottering around the shed yard.

 

And while I'm here - anyone know when V2s started to appear in green?  I've just bought a lined black one at a very fair price, but can't find out whether St Margarets V2s were still black in 1958.

 

Richard

[Ian Hargrave]

Browsing through shed allocations while planning my next project and found that for nearly three years (1958-60) Hawick had a Gresley N2 0-6-2T, number 69510.  Why?  Was it sent there by mistake?  I would have thought there were enough N15s around that if Hawick really wanted a big tank loco in 1958 they could have had one of those.  And the big question - did 69510 ever work the main line?  The only photos I've found show it pottering around the shed yard.

 

And while I'm here - anyone know when V2s started to appear in green?  I've just bought a lined black one at a very fair price, but can't find out whether St Margarets V2s were still black in 1958.

 

Richard

1958? Unlikely I would think.The morph from black to green occurred circa 1956. At the same time,the WR changed its Halls,Counties ,Granges and practically everything connected with passenger work from black to green.However some examples may have lingered a while so there can be no hard and fast rule.....for example the SR.Schools..and black remained resolutely black on the LMR.....maybe a nod to old Crewe traditions ( which then commenced to repaint most of its 8P locos in red ! )

[Bill Jamieson]

Browsing through shed allocations while planning my next project and found that for nearly three years (1958-60) Hawick had a Gresley N2 0-6-2T, number 69510.  Why?  Was it sent there by mistake?  I would have thought there were enough N15s around that if Hawick really wanted a big tank loco in 1958 they could have had one of those.  And the big question - did 69510 ever work the main line?  The only photos I've found show it pottering around the shed yard.

 

And while I'm here - anyone know when V2s started to appear in green?  I've just bought a lined black one at a very fair price, but can't find out whether St Margarets V2s were still black in 1958.

 

Richard

 

Did the N2 not go to Hawick as belated replacement for a withdrawn C16 4-4-2T? I guess that implies it would most likely have seen use between St. Boswells and Kelso, but I suspect it also appeared on the afternoon school train from Hawick to Melrose. Afraid I can't offer any proof at the moment though.

 

Bill

[pH]

Browsing through shed allocations while planning my next project and found that for nearly three years (1958-60) Hawick had a Gresley N2 0-6-2T, number 69510.  Why?  Was it sent there by mistake?  I would have thought there were enough N15s around that if Hawick really wanted a big tank loco in 1958 they could have had one of those.  And the big question - did 69510 ever work the main line?  The only photos I've found show it pottering around the shed yard.

 

Apparently, the N2s were not well liked in Scotland, and were restricted in use because of damage to track and a derailment. So, a possibility for 69510 being sent to Hawick might be a shed in the Glasgow area taking advantage of a request for a 'big tank engine' to get rid of an N2. Also, it may have not been used for much else than shed pilot at Hawick. This site - https://www.lner.info/locos/N/n2.php - says " The remaining Scottish N2s spent much of their remaining lives idle or operating as pilots.". (That site also contains the information about reputation, track damage and the derailment.)

[Bill Jamieson]

 

Apparently, the N2s were not well liked in Scotland, and were restricted in use because of damage to track and a derailment. So, a possibility for 69510 being sent to Hawick might be a shed in the Glasgow area taking advantage of a request for a 'big tank engine' to get rid of an N2. Also, it may have not been used for much else than shed pilot at Hawick. This site - https://www.lner.info/locos/N/n2.php - says " The remaining Scottish N2s spent much of their remaining lives idle or operating as pilots.". (That site also contains the information about reputation, track damage and the derailment.)

 

I'm sure I've read somewhere that Hawick actually wanted another V3 but ended up with an N2 in the way that pH describes.

 

Bill

[Colin Stewart]

Didn't Canal have an N2 at one point, I'm sure there is a photo of the cab of an N2 on the Langholm branch, taken some time in the 30s

 

Colin

Edited April 22, 2017 by Colin Stewart

[Richard Hall]

Didn't Canal have an N2 at one point, I'm sure there is a photo of the cab of an N2 on the Langholm branch, taken some time in the 30s

 

Colin

So they did. 69564, sent there from Parkhead in August '57 and withdrawn June '61. The Hawick N2 was ex Parkhead as well.

[The Border Reiver]

So they did. 69564, sent there from Parkhead in August '57 and withdrawn June '61. The Hawick N2 was ex Parkhead as well.

Apart from occasional trip workings, it spent most of its time shunting in London Road sidings along with N15 69155

['CHARD]

Whatever the rationale, I reckon when it turned up the local enthusiasts were delighted with a bit of unexpected exotica!

[Bill Jamieson]

Not sure if this has been posted here before:-  http://www.railpictorial.com/piwigo/picture.php?/2998/category/13

 

Bill

[Bill Jamieson]

I was speaking to Bruce this afternoon and he tells me that he has had a long phone conversation with a Galashiels enthusiast who well remembers 69510 turning up on the 16:15 school train from Hawick. The 1959 public timetable shows this train terminating at Melrose but presumably it worked ecs to Galashiels for the loco to run round.

 

Bill

[Mad McCann]

I'm not sure what the overhaul intervals were for V2s but assuming it wasn't accruing huge mileage it's probably fair to say that a V2 shopped before the changeover to municipal lamp post green in 1956 may well have retained the indisputably superior mixed-traffic black until 1958-9.

 

D.

[Richard Hall]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm leaning more towards mid-fifties now, so my new V2 is safe from ham-fisted repainting at the moment. I'll dig out my neglected Borders branch layout at the weekend and see if the V2 (or anything else) actually runs.  That's assuming I make a bit of progress on this birthday present for my father, which couldn't be more WR if it tried.  "Wandering Willie" is my first attempt at an etched brass kit, my first stab at resistance soldering, and the first loco kit I have built since 1987.  It's a steep learning curve: among other things I have no idea (apart from bad kit design) how I managed to get the splashers further back on one side than the other. One of the axles isn't perpendicular to the frames either, and that definitely isn't my fault. It's a pity I didn't notice it before I soldered the gearbox to the frames...

[DCB]

I'm not sure what the overhaul intervals were for V2s but assuming it wasn't accruing huge mileage it's probably fair to say that a V2 shopped before the changeover to municipal lamp post green in 1956 may well have retained the indisputably superior mixed-traffic black until 1958-9.

 

D.

How would you know which colour a Waverley route V2 was unless you took a rag and some white spirit and cleaned off the dirt?   Poundland Matt black is a good match for dirty BR Lined black and dirty BR Green

I read a book by Charlie Meacher which refers to N2s and Gresley inside cylinder locos in general being loathed and detested by fitters due to appalling detail design.....

[Bill Jamieson]

I probably saw my first V2s while on holiday at Stonehaven in the summer of 1957. I have a feeling that there were black examples still around then, but I would be lying if I said I was certain! However I notice that in the May edition of British Railways Illustrated there's a shot of a black Great Central line V2 at Rugby Central, thought to have been photographed in 1958, so I would have no qualms about agreeing with what Mad McCann said earlier this week.

 

Bill

Edited April 28, 2017 by Bill Jamieson

[Graham R]

The RCTS green bible 9A states that 69510 was sub-sheded at St Boswells on pilot duties when it was allocated to Hawick. It also mentions an N2 (2590, later replaced by 2594) was allocated to St Boswells from January 1928 for three years, to work trains on the Berwickshire line; another N2 (4739) was at Duns in 1929 for the same reason, although later moved to work the same duty from Heaton. A third N2, 4729, was stationed at Hawick from November 1935. So they weren't exactly unknown there.

[Daddyman]

Sorry, just found this thread. 

 

Re the N2 at Hawick, it clearly did do some work as it received a replacement boiler while there, as a perusal of photos on Railscot will show, and as Yeadon confirms: moved to Hawick 11/2/57; boiler replaced 19/4/58; condemned from Hawick 4/11/59. 

[Steamysandy]

A retired fireman based at North Berwick became the Lollipop man at North Berwick primary school when I was there from 1956 to 1960.He gave me long lost photos of N2s 4725 and 4731.They were used on Edinburgh Suburban services in the 1920s until the V1s appeared.4731 became 69510,the subject of this item.4725 however went back south and was refitted with condensing gear It was finally withdrawn as 69504.

I've seen them referred to as "Teddy Bears!"

[D9020 Nimbus]

There's a photograph of the Canal N2 operating a freight train on the Alston branch.

[Daddyman]

There's a photograph of the Canal N2 operating a freight train on the Alston branch.

Oooh! Where?!