RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted October 7, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2017 I've just come across a rather unusual photograph: http://www.miac.org.uk/ted-crocker.html#br1507 "Hawksworth designed 1500 class 0-6-0 Pannier Tank No.1507 at Worcester Shrub Hill. On the rear of the photograph is states that the train is the 10:15 Wolverhampton-Worcester-Leamington local on 19th June 1961." I've never before seen a picture of one of these machines on a passenger train (except in preservation of course). Is anyone aware of any other other instances? Wolverhampton-Worcester-Leamington seems an unexpected service. Was it via Honeybourne and Stratford? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidnutter Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Wouldn't be any trouble for a 15xx. Assuming it is going OWW to Honeybourne then up through Stratford Upon Avon. Plenty of watering holes along the way. It probably is a rarity to use one of a longer distance stopping service. More than likely it has been used because of a failure to the booked loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 I can just imagine, a loco like that once it got to any reasonable speed would be bouncing all over the place, short wheelbase, outside cylinders - sea sick pills anyone. Used to watch them on Paddington ecs waddling along. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 (edited) By pure chance I have the carriage working programme for the area and period. Set 13 - a "three coach local set" - had quite an interesting day back in 1961: 7.0 am Wolverhampton to Cosford 8.21 am SX 8.33 am SO Cosford to Wolverhampton 10.15 am Wolverhampton to Worcester Shrub Hill [arr 11.54 am] 12.27 pm Worcester to Leamington 4.20 pm Leamington to Worcester Shrub Hill 6.20 pm Worcester Shrub Hill to Wolverhampton The 10.15 was booked to convey two vans except on Mondays - one from Manchester to Leamington off the 8.25 am from Wellington, one from Wolverhampton to Worcester off the 5.12 pm from Shrewsbury the previous day. 19th June 1961 was a Monday! Later in the day the 4.20 from Leamington would convey vans for Carlisle and Crewe as far as Evesham and on Mondays only a stores van from Oxford to Wolverhampton. The 10.15 called at Dudley, Round Oak, Stourbridge Junction, Hagley, Kidderminster, Hartlebury, Droitwich Spa and Worcester SH. The 12.27 from Worcester called at all stations to Leamington via Evesham, Honeybourne and Stratford on Avon, arriving Leamington at 2.14 pm. It has been quite fun tracing its tortuous journey through the public timetable. Chris Edited October 13, 2017 by chrisf 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2017 I can just imagine, a loco like that once it got to any reasonable speed would be bouncing all over the place, short wheelbase, outside cylinders - sea sick pills anyone. Used to watch them on Paddington ecs waddling along. Old Oak men couldn't stand the trip 'round Greenford' on a 15XX so I suspect the Worcester men were not in for a pleasant trip with a lightweight trains behind them (and I doubt the trip in the leading coach would have been very comfortable either!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2017 This looks like a diagram more suited to a larger engine with better riding and more water capacity, like a 5101, and as has been suggested I would suspect that the regular loco has been 'pinched' and this is an ad hoc substitute. With poor riding and frequent water stops I doubt she kept time, but those issues apart a 15xx is perfectly capable in terms of power and haulage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidnutter Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 You certainly find all the drop joints with 1501. It wouldn't surprise me if this could have been a 94xx working along with 51xx. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlambert Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Thanks for the information. My layout is set on the line between Stratford-upon-Avon and Leamington Spa in this era, so I'm always interested in details of the services that worked over this line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted October 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2017 The loco is somewhat off piste - could she be fresh off overhaul at Wolverhampton perhaps? Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2017 The loco is somewhat off piste - could she be fresh off overhaul at Wolverhampton perhaps? Phil Quite possible Phil. Shedbash UK listed 1507 as having visited Stafford Road in 1960. 1502 and 1503 also made appearances there. It was not uncommon to find half a dozen locos from the 81 sheds at Stafford Road, mainly tanks but also some large locos. On the unusual front several of the 97xx Condenser tanks visited in the late 1950s and early1960s. 9710 was pictured at Swan village on a trip c1958. Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted October 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2017 Many thanks Eric Nov 1960 in fact so if the photo at Worcester is June that's a long stay. But looking at the photo again that looks more like a dismal January date than flaming June! Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2017 It moved from Newport to Old Oak around April 1960. I can't make out any shed plate in the picture so no help there. I would have expected a working like that to get into the railway press, but I can't see any mention in the Trains Illustrated or Railway Magazine in the 1960/61 period other than its transfer between sheds. I wonder if it got into the Railway Observer? Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) A quick check in the RO for 1961 reveals that 1507 was recently ex works at Wolverhampton on 5th February. Does this cast doubt on the date of the photograph [19th June] which started this topic? Chris Edited October 13, 2017 by chrisf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2017 Thanks for looking Chris. The weather does look more like 12th February Erkc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted October 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2017 That makes much more sense! Many thanks for the detective work chaps The MIAC site has acquired many photographic collections from railwaymen and dates on photos could well be development/printing dates rather than actual if no records were kept Will feed this gen back to the web site admin Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 A further discovery is a note in the January 1961 RO that 1507 was in Wolverhampton works on 20th November 1960. Phil's point about development dates is a good one. Some years ago Ron White of Colour-Rail was giving a slide show in Cardiff and projected an image of the Rambling 56 railtour at Bargoed which he announced as August 1965 because that is what was printed on the slide mount. It was in fact 31st July. Ron hates me! Of course, if the photo was taken earlier than 12th June it could mean that the working was not as I set it out. Oh dear. Chris 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted October 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2017 Surely not Chris? Would not be implausible for film to be in camera from Feb to June would it - probably not a peak photography time of year?Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Phil This is true. It is also true that the working seems to have ceased by September 1962 - I could not find it in the winter 1962-63 cwp and then realised that I also had the summer 1961 version. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2017 Phil This is true. It is also true that the working seems to have ceased by September 1962 - I could not find it in the winter 1962-63 cwp and then realised that I also had the summer 1961 version. Chris OWW passenger service north of Stourbridge Junction through to Wolverhampton closed in July 1962. Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted October 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2017 Thanks Eric The absence of an alternative exit at the northern end of the OWW - other than via Smethwick - is becoming a significant limiting factor . Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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