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sem34090

sem34090's 1930s Workbench (Pre-Grouping not currently included!!!)

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Just now, RedGemAlchemist said:

Oof. Sorry about your Spamcan, mate.

Oh don't be - it's been through the wars a bit but it's managed to survive. Need to fill the new cracks in the bufferbeam though.

Just now, RedGemAlchemist said:

And very nice CCTs.

Thank you kindly - I now have four vehicles almost ready to form up a parcels train. Need a few from other companies now - I have a GWR van somewhere, and a Siphon somewhere else.

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1 minute ago, sem34090 said:

Thank you kindly - I now have four vehicles almost ready to form up a parcels train.

Funny you should mention that. One of the pieces of stock on my workbench (floor - my bench is no longer in existence as of this evening) is a Triang short brake van which I plan to turn into a matching luggage/parcels van for my Hornby short coaches.

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So I gather!

IMG_20190817_210557.jpg.3399258d2ebb4e0a493267678eae1971.jpg

All the basic painting is done - time for transfers.

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When the Waters were dried an' the Earth did appear,
("It's all one," says the Sapper),
The Lord He created the Engineer,
Her Majesty's Royal Engineer,
With the rank and pay of a Sapper!

When the Flood come along for an extra monsoon,
'Twas Noah constructed the first pontoon
To the plans of Her Majesty's, etc.

But after fatigue in the wet an' the sun,
Old Noah got drunk, which he wouldn't ha' done
If he'd trained with, etc.

When the Tower o' Babel had mixed up men's ~bat~,
Some clever civilian was managing that,
An' none of, etc.

When the Jews had a fight at the foot of a hill,
Young Joshua ordered the sun to stand still,
For he was a Captain of Engineers, etc.

When the Children of Israel made bricks without straw,
They were learnin' the regular work of our Corps,
The work of, etc.

For ever since then, if a war they would wage,
Behold us a-shinin' on history's page --
First page for, etc.

We lay down their sidings an' help 'em entrain,
An' we sweep up their mess through the bloomin' campaign,
In the style of, etc.

They send us in front with a fuse an' a mine
To blow up the gates that are rushed by the Line,
But bent by, etc.

They send us behind with a pick an' a spade,
To dig for the guns of a bullock-brigade
Which has asked for, etc.

We work under escort in trousers and shirt,
An' the heathen they plug us tail-up in the dirt,
Annoying, etc.

We blast out the rock an' we shovel the mud,
We make 'em good roads an' -- they roll down the ~khud~,
Reporting, etc.

We make 'em their bridges, their wells, an' their huts,
An' the telegraph-wire the enemy cuts,
An' it's blamed on, etc.

An' when we return, an' from war we would cease,
They grudge us adornin' the billets of peace,
Which are kept for, etc.

We build 'em nice barracks -- they swear they are bad,
That our Colonels are Methodist, married or mad,
Insultin', etc.

They haven't no manners nor gratitude too,
For the more that we help 'em, the less will they do,
But mock at, etc.

Now the Line's but a man with a gun in his hand,
An' Cavalry's only what horses can stand,
When helped by, etc.

Artillery moves by the leave o' the ground,
But ~we~ are the men that do something all round,
For ~we~ are, etc.

I have stated it plain, an' my argument's thus
("It's all one," says the Sapper),
There's only one Corps which is perfect -- that's us;
An' they call us Her Majesty's Engineers,
Her Majesty's Royal Engineers,
With the rank and pay of a Sapper!

 

Rudyard Kipling

I felt that poem to be particularly apt for this forum, and it's one of the lesser-read/heard ones too.

 

One may think what they may about the military, the defence of a nation or even the concept of nationhood, but I think it is undeniable that there is a respect to be held for those who made the final sacrifice in defence of a cause. I think it is also important to remember, however, that although this nation is currently largely unaffected (in a direct sense) by war the latter is seemingly perpetual and today, somewhere, a war will have brought further casualties. I think it is all too easy for us in the West who have grown up in recent decades to consider war to be a thing of the past - something found only in historical documents, texts and black and white photographs. Addressing that latter, I present some colour railway photographs from the First and Second World Wars -

image.png.16f65d6f12e228f6db3cf3b06478fabe.png

I have been unable to find out where the image was taken, but it appears to be one of the few 'proper' colour photographs (there was a means of taking them, just, then - There are a series of photographs by a French Photographer taken in colour during the war) of a railway subject during the First World War.

image.png.b5ac4933619afddf55a64a72ed58a683.png

A hand-tinted one, unfortunately, depicting what looks to be a Caledonian machine (I don't think it's one of the Belgian 812 copies as the cab isn't right for one of those), again WW1.

image.png.f3b683646f6fc9d83239032230940993.png

I am unsure whether it is tinted or not, but  a photo showing part of the relief effort following Dunkirk. I would be interested to know the parentage of the coach here. I make it to be an ex-SECR vehicle (or maybe an early SR one, going by the plated-over panelling).

image.png.644dcbdedf9ce2b4434a68b34f87e92f.png

Admittedly not a railway subject, but another interesting photograph from the Dunkirk evacuation. It seems somehow less easy to gloss over the numbers of real people involved in these conflicts when they're seen in colour.

image.png.ae385694600ce24ae01ff0804fd2b48d.png

Again not a railway subject, and I imagine this to be a WW1 image, but a no less important one, I feel, when one hears of people using days such as today to air racist and other unduly prejudiced views.

 

Anyway, I think that is quite enough waffling and image-pasting from me for now. I will say, however, that having conducted research into the association between Britain's Military and railways there is certainly a lot of interest to be found from a railway modelling perspective. I have long considerd producing a small, accurate, toned down and un-glorified model of a section of ROD-operated line in Northern Europe so perhaps I might some day achieve that.

Edited by sem34090
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9 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/image.png.f3b683646f6fc9d83239032230940993.png

I am unsure whether it is tinted or not, but  a photo showing part of the relief effort following Dunkirk. I would be interested to know the parentage of the coach here. I make it to be an ex-SECR vehicle (or maybe an early SR one, going by the plated-over panelling).

 

 

That's one of the SECR 10-compartment thirds (the 100 seaters), as per 971 and 1098 at the Bluebell.

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Looking again that's what I was leaning towards - Thanks Nick.

 

For some reason this is making me wish the MHR had something older than MK1s, but more appropriate than the 4/6-wheel LBSCR bodies we have down at Alresford. Ah well - Late to the table I guess.

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3 hours ago, sem34090 said:

Looking again that's what I was leaning towards - Thanks Nick.

 

For some reason this is making me wish the MHR had something older than MK1s, but more appropriate than the 4/6-wheel LBSCR bodies we have down at Alresford. Ah well - Late to the table I guess.

Yeah, that's something I feel is particularly missing, it'd be great to have a nice rake of Maunsells for example, but as you say, they'd all gone by the time the MHR started up. I think there's an ironclad BSK lurking around somewhere...

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I think you're right - There's certainly something vaguely interesting on the Meon Valley Siding.

 

Edit - This one: http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=319

The VCT's assessment of the underframe is encouraging, though the last update was three years ago and I'd warrant that coach probably hasn't moved since that siding was brought into use. I might ask our local authority on all things MHR what they did with it when it first arrived as we weren't even back to Medstead in 1979.

 

We used to have this one too, and it must have been having some kind of attention to have been in the carriage shop - http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=322

Looking further it looks like we used to have other interesting residents too:

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=5

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=487

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=528

Edited by sem34090

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Seems to me there's a lot of irreplaceable coaches being left on sidings to rot and then finally scrapped for one reason or another.

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That certainly looks like a CR 812 class that's come to grief!  The CR loaned 25 0-6-0's to the war department.  One book I have says that they were 'Jumbo's', but I think 812 's are more likely as they were not only more modern, but also more powerful.

 

Jim

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Seems to me there's a lot of irreplaceable coaches being left on sidings to rot and then finally scrapped for one reason or another.

These things happen, sadly. It's a difficult balancing act - The NRM is having to be careful about what it retains, and many heritage railways have to focus on keeping their main operational fleet running. On some lines this will often include older coaching stock (The Bluebell comes to mind here, with Tanfield it's almost exclusively pre-grouping stock, same on the IoWSR) but for many this will generally mean MK1s or at least late-grouping steel-bodied stock, for some it might even be MK2s. MK1s are generally very good coaches for heritage lines, and regardless of our personal biases as pre-grouping enthusiasts they are now vintage stock in their own right, all being well over 50 years old now. For the general public seeking a ride behind a steam locomotive in an 'old' carriage, they are usually more than sufficient and have the advantage of a comparatively reasonable spare parts supply, comparatively simple construction and high degrees of component standardisation. In the current MHR fleet there is only one non-MK1 vehicle in service currently, this being Bulleid BTO No.4211 and soon to be joined by a Bulleid Open and eventually another BTO. The Bulleids add variety, but have the advantage of being directly compatible with the MK1 stock we operate. I would love to see our Ironclad BTK restored and running behind No.499 when she emerges, but the cost of overhaul compared with the cost of overhauling another MK1, when compared with the issues of a non-standard coach and the fact that the Ironclad is unlikely to bring in any more revenue than that other MK1 means that it will probably be a long time before it runs again, if ever.

 

It may sound a rather hard line, but we cannot preserve everything forever. And increasingly heritage railways are having to be a bit more objective about what will make revenue. Still... I'd love to see it running, and were I in a position to be able to I might start investigating how to start a restoration. I can't think of any running Ironclads, for one thing, so it'd be brilliant to see one.

 

As for the ROD, I always had it down that they were 'Jumbos', Jim. I shall have to consult my material on the subject.

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36 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

As for the ROD, I always had it down that they were 'Jumbos', Jim. I shall have to consult my material on the subject.

The boiler looks to big, and hence the chimney too short, for it to be a Jumbo.  At least to my eye.  Also, the Jumbos' cabs didn't have the wee bit of side sheet under the rear part of the cab roof.

 

Jim

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Looks like a Belgian Type 30 to me? 

Info from wiki below says Type 30s had the same cabs as 812s whereas 32 and 32S had different cabs.

HMGunBocheBusterTrain1918.jpg

 

Belgian derivatives

A Type 30 engine used by the Railway Operating Division
Belgian State Railways (SNCB-NMBS) derived three series of steam locomotives (891 units) from the class 812 between 1899 and 1914. They had a shallower firebox, able to burn semi-bituminous coal and briquettes, allowing a shorter wheelbase due to its positioning above the rear axle. There were three classes

Type 30 [fr] – first variant with several details in common with the Caledonian engines (cab windows, gauges and tender coupling). 82 built between 1899 and 1901.
Type 32 [fr] (later renamed Type 44) – more powerful and fitted with a Belgian cab, higher steam pressure, new gauges and tender coupling. 502 built between 1901 and 1910
Type 32S [fr] (later renamed Type 41) – same features but improved with a Schmidt superheater. 307 built between 1905 and 1914
Until 1909, they were the only new engines used with freight trains. They were also used on suburban and local passenger trains and some expresses on hilly sections. Most of them were retired between 1947 and 1959. Some of them were then used as stationary boilers and two of them (44.221 and 41.195) survive in museums. A third one (44.021), kept as a parts donor, was cut up for scrap in 2002[2].

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Railway_812_and_652_Classes#Belgian_derivatives

 

 

 

Edited by Corbs
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I'm always sceptical about colour photographs from the first half of the 20th Century.  Everyday photographs (box brownie snaps) were ALWAYS monchrome. Professional photography, in the sense of press and technical pictures, were ALWAYS monochrome. Colour photography was in the realm of well off amatures and artistic experimenters, or, in the case of the movies, well off studios.  Most coloured photos were just that, hand tinted monochrome images with a bit of colour added, at home or by a photographic studio.

 

The main real colour technologies available were:

 

Autochrome - 1900s to 1930s (French)

Dufaycolour - Late 1930s to late 1950s (mainly British)

Kodachrome - Late 1930s to very recently

 

Looking at the photos, the first is probably an Autochrome and the second is hand-tinted. The rest don't "look" right for either Dufaycolour or Kodachrome which in the "early" days were vey slow speed films and there's too much "fast" detail captured for the amount of ambient light available*. Movies relied on excessive lighting to get sharp, fast colour images.  War photography using Kodachrome came in with the Americans...

 

Given modern technology (consider Peter Jacksons Memorial film "They Shall Not Grow Old"), it is very easy to colourise both stills and moving images to produce a convincing colour image from a monochrome one, and that's what the last three photos look like.

 

* And look at the "tin hats" in both the train and ship photos.  They've just come back from an arduous stint in France and look identically factory fresh.  No weathering at all!

 

 

 

 

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Just a short post - Does anyone have drawings for any of the following:

  • SR Maunsell Z Class 0-8-0
  • SR Maunsell W Class 2-6-4T
  • LSWR Urie H16 2-6-4T
  • LSWR Urie G16 4-8-0T
  • LSWR Urie S15
  • DR/LT Hunslet 0-6-0T
  • SR Maunsell 0-6-0DE Shunter
  • Any late-19th/early-20th small Outside-framed 0-6-0s.
  • WW1 Rail-Mounted Howitzer ('Boche Buster' Variety as modelled by Oxford) Ammunition Wagon

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edited by sem34090

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Mr. Russell does!

 

(I think. Not at home so can't check, but I'm pretty sure the first 5 are in there)

 

image.png.bb2920027afa96e3d59fcaa8bde374f6.png

Edited by TurboSnail

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I book that has been on my 'must-buy' list for at least 5 years now, but has somehow never been bought...

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Just another note - I've just remembered three other things for which I have been seeking drawings.

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Yep, all the above mentioned SR engines are drawn in Russell, including the Diesel.

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The LSWR H16 was in the Railway Modeller December 1969 p362 and the S15 in August 1986 p 342 - assuming they are not in the aforementioned book.

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I think they probably are in that book, all SR locos are (I think), but my other worry with it is that the drawings are all little more than outline GAs I seem to recall. RM drawings would be better, so thank you.

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Christmas generally comes about a month early for me if Warley is to be visited...

image.png.2044df94dc801fd7ccdcd36f2419f531.png

First up, then, a Kernow O2. I have been after an O2 of some description for a while to provide appropriate motive power for Odiham, but the SEF Kit isn't exactly cheap, the Wills body I have is for an IoW version and finding green Kernow ones at reasonable prices has thus far proven impossible. I was, therefore, quite lucky to find this one under the £80 mark. It will be primarily for use on Odiham but I can definitely see it appearing on Blackstone West occasionally.

image.png.d560f53a031b9f34065d9b6d475f14ab.png

I own two layouts with third rail laid on them, but from April (when I had no layouts with third rail on them and no plans for one, thus I sold my BR Green 2-BIL) until now (In the meantime I've changed my mind) I hadn't owned any SR EMUs. I have been meaning to put this right for a couple of months now, so am pleased to have finally done so. This unit was also at the lowest price I have yet found one of these at in this livery.

image.png.f9e2224615bd1744ce9730413852cf14.png

Edited by sem34090
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