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Great Southern Railway (Fictitious) - Signalling and Carriage Trucks


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On the different heights, Wainfleet, Lincs used to have a low platform that necessitated the use of a set of steps. Back in the 70’s, my sister fell between the platform and a 1st gen DMU because she stumbled on the step. The opposite platform was higher as it had been built later when the line was doubled. Both platforms are now The same height, with the original station building now slightly below the new platform level.

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30 minutes ago, Annie said:

Any self respecting 4 and 6 wheel coach must have footboards and on my (imaginary) minor Norfolk railways they have double footboards for extra pre-grouping excellence points.

Well, if you insist...

 

I've been enjoying the new workbench immensely. This evening has seen me replacing the medium-sized Mainline-style tension-locks on my ex-Thomas "Emily" 6-wheelers with short, narrow Bachmann ones (a straight unscrew, screw in replacement swap) and fitting some Lanarkshire Models and Supplies below-bufferbeam vac pipes, as well as fitting them to my 4-wheel clerestory full brake.

 

In the course of unpacking a box while glue was setting, I came across an old project, which has now been resurrected - a GSR non-clerestory 4-wheel luggage van. This has been bashed from the luggage section of a Mainline LMS PII brake-end many years ago, and is looking a little rough around the edges. It does however have full-length footboards, as its underframe is a shortened Hornby GWR Toad underframe. I'm not so sure about the end gangway connections though - they seem a little out of place on so short a vehicle. Then again,if an LMS 6-wheel Stove R can have them... This might end up running in the corridor train used for the London commuter services from Linton.

20191230_195956.jpg

 

There's a definite difference between the two designs. I considered (and even tried) painting the panelling on the shorter carriage in white but it didn't look right, especially around the ducket. More pondering required there, I think.

 

20191230_204531.jpg

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8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Re. platform heights, see this. Not so easy getting out in a full-length skirt.

 

For those not able to get the film, the platform height at Cockermouth in 1899 was a good 18" below the footboards of the carriages (LNWR 6-wheelers); several women are seen having to make an unassisted jump, one carrying a small child. 

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9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Re. platform heights, see this. Not so easy getting out in a full-length skirt.

 

7 hours ago, Annie said:

That is just so annoying.

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

For those not able to get the film, the platform height at Cockermouth in 1899 was a good 18" below the footboards of the carriages (LNWR 6-wheelers); several women are seen having to make an unassisted jump, one carrying a small child. 

 

For Annie, a still of The Great Descent.

 

6176651_LNWRCockermouth01.jpg.50c10a8088496999130cde023d6b6cbb.jpg

 

I note that the platform height is inconveniently set between the upper and lower footboards.

 

This suggests to me that this is something to be avoided. Either I set platforms really, really low, so as to suit the lower footboards, or, I should  ensure that the platforms are high enough to avoid such a significant drop from the upper board. 

 

I do want it to be visibly lower than we're used to; one of those subtle indicators that we're in Another Country when compared with the classic ('30s-'50s) steam era look.  

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Even on Blackstone West I need to consider this. I want the 'original' section of platform to look as if it was extended upwards, but have the surface sloping down with the station building at the original height.

 

Then I think there will be a brick extension, at later height and visibly newer. Finally a new (four year old at the time being modelled) concrete extension to coincide with electrification.

 

Platform two would be entirely new, and thus concrete throughout.

 

I hope this will make the platform that bit more interesting to look at than just going for one texture and style throughout.

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Yes I agree the platform heights have to be given some thought when footboards are in use.  On the tramways on my rambling little empire double footboards reign supreme and the low platforms in use on the tramways match up with them nicely.

Out on the other lines platform adjusting when I install a new station occupies a fair percentage of the task.  Most of the platform models available have white edges and are too high, but there are a precious handful of pre-grouping platforms I can use.  90% of the coaches on the layout are either 4 or 6 wheelers with the bogie coaches belonging to the GCR and since they whizz along the joint line on through trains they don't really count when it comes to footboard matters.  I don't run single footboard coaches on the tramways, - they stay on the secondary lines.  However I do agree, - a lower platform height says 'pre-grouping' very clearly and definitely not the 'modern image' 30's-50's.

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3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

This suggests to me that this is something to be avoided. Either I set platforms really, really low, so as to suit the lower footboards, or, I should  ensure that the platforms are high enough to avoid such a significant drop from the upper board. 

 

I do want it to be visibly lower than we're used to; one of those subtle indicators that we're in Another Country when compared with the classic ('30s-'50s) steam era look.  

Although it pains me to suggest aping anything the so called premier line did, why not use this as your exemplar? Yes its awkward  for passengers, but, well, the real thing could be like that.  For a minor railway network like that of Castle Aching the cost of rebuilding platforms might mean it was well down the list of priorities unless compelled by legislation.  

Regards

Duncan

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42 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

How did you do that?

 

Assuming Edwardian is running Windows, the Print Screen button on the keyboard (often labelled PrtScr, PrSc or something equally cryptic) will take a screenshot of what's on the computer screen at that instant. 

 

Then one can open Paint, paste the screenshot in (it's already been copied onto the clipboard), crop, edit and save. 

 

20191230_214819.jpg.9bb0dcd49b6713eef71f84d3b902fb85.jpg

 

By the end of the evening last night I had done more small tasks than I've done in a long time. I have continued work on the horsebox, although I'm not happy with the ride height - the Hornby donor chassis has very deep solebars so I will have to try a kit-bashed alternative. 

 

20191230_213025.jpg.9b8da82a83699dbcf4308aa04f091f59.jpg

 

I'm currently sat on the floor in the middle of my old bedroom. It is now empty and devoid of all my belongings, and it feels strangely sad. However, the new flat is already feeling very much like home, and I'm looking forward to living there full time.

 

Onwards and upwards! (not literally though - both old and new flats are on the first floor)

Edited by Skinnylinny
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12 hours ago, Edwardian said:

For Annie, a still of The Great Descent.

 

6176651_LNWRCockermouth01.jpg.50c10a8088496999130cde023d6b6cbb.jpg

 

Long ankle length skirts are pretty much my default clothing style so I very much feel sorry for that woman passenger.

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Well, the move is finally over! Handed in the keys yesterday after finishing cleaning and taking the last car-load of belongings (a couple of small boxes of things that had to stay until the end and things that appeared out of nowhere) to the new place, followed by a very sedate new year party (board games followed by all going to bed at 20 past midnight!). Now begins the hopefully-less-stressful task of unpacking.

20200101_222000.jpg

I've now got all of the GSR's coaching stock on the layout mock-up (although I do need to build another full-third and figure out what I'm doing with the corridor coach - does it need a matching rake? Why would they have been built? It was mainly done as an experiment in modelling...

Having the workbench as a dedicated space seems to be really helping with the modelling motivation. It's actually in a room that's a combination kitchen/dining/living room, which means I've already found myself thinking "Oh, I'll just paint/file/do a couple of minutes on something" while food's cooking. Hopefully this will translate into more things being built.

Now, where's all of my goods stock...?

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Looking through a few photos, I estimate the platforms on the Mid-Hants to be about 10-11 bricks from sleeper top to coping - so at 3" per brick plus 4.5" for the coping (bricks on their side) gives 34.5 - 37.5", or about 11.5-12.5mm in 4mm.

 

Old photos of Cowes showed a distinct ramp midway along the platforms there where they'd been extended, with the newer bit being at least 3" higher than the old...

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14 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Looking through a few photos, I estimate the platforms on the Mid-Hants to be about 10-11 bricks from sleeper top to coping - so at 3" per brick plus 4.5" for the coping (bricks on their side) gives 34.5 - 37.5", or about 11.5-12.5mm in 4mm.

 

 

The Mid-Hants stations were originally built in the 1860s. Is your brick counting for the platforms as they currently are? What height were they in the early 20th century?

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Just now, Compound2632 said:

 

The Mid-Hants stations were originally built in the 1860s. Is your brick counting for the platforms as they currently are? What height were they in the early 20th century?

That's current heights. As far as I know they are still original, I'll see if I can find any earlier photos to compare.

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@Nick C Here's a grouping-era photo of Ropley. (I'm not well up on Southern liveries but is that the "sunshine" style of lettering on the engine - late 30s at earliest?) The top of the platform is about level with the bottom of the buffer beam, so about 36" above rail level, confirming your estimate. However, I've also been looking closely at some modern photos of the same section of platform; [EDIT: I've now realised this is on the other platform, but anyway: I think one can make out a line of redder bricks at ballast level, then four regular courses, a row of side-on headers, three more courses, then the final course of side-on headers making the current coping. That suggests that the original platform may have been 13.5" lower than at present. This is in the vicinity of the wooden waiting room with canopy; it's not so clear in other photos.] I'd have to see it in the flesh to be fully convinced. Of course there might be other reasons for putting in a row of side-on headers - if the foundation had sunk, for example.

 

In this photo we also see that the Southern used spare plots of land at out-of-the-way stations to grow chairs.

 

image.png.749a647a4ae312d98b6aebeb7d35d0e6.png

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Bear in mind that the other platform at Ropley was taken out of use in the 1930s, so by the time our lot moved in there wasn't much left.

 

Alresford and Medstead provide a better guide, if the step down from the MK1s is anything to go by. I think the steps we provide are about 10-12" in height. Worthy of note is the fact that Medstead kept both of its platforms in use until 1967, Alresford always had two platforms. The photo below was taken just before dispatching the last train on Wednesday (The last one before we go back to Alton!).

IMG_20200101_161029.jpg.e2dda556d56d42d5e2ca72ed3e46f449.jpg

Same coach, same place, but back in October. Complete with me modelling a BR Porter's Jacket... :P

IMG_20200103_235601.jpg.d68b0d34166e419015ece52187e98bd1.jpg

I reckon Medstead's platform is near to original height. If you like I can probably measure it properly when I'm up there later this month?

 

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I've often found myself staring at the platform opposite while waiting for a train - looking for tell-tales in the pattern of the brickwork that indicate that the platform was raised at some time. Almost a hobby in itself... Unfortunately all too many platforms have been completely renewed with concrete block-work over the last three decades, so evidence has been destroyed.

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As Compound2632, I've often stared at the platform facing walls, either from another platform or a train. I particularly note that at Whitchurch (ex LSWR) where there is a steep ramp down from the platform to either end of the station building with a surrounding retaining wall. My guess is the station booking office exit to the platforms must have been raised.

Photo here  (geograph, © Copyright Chris Talbot, CCL)

1423157_9287101e.jpg

 

It opened 3 July 1854 and is a typical Tite building in style.

 

As a child I recall seeing at the old Southampton station a wooden ramp in the booking hall up to the platform. At Gosport which I'm modelling the platform slopes down from the platform edge to the station buildings with platform extensions at a higher level.

 

The LSWR had a reputation for low platforms and I recalling reading once that the BoT told them (c1900?) to raise them. An early painting of Gosport (1841) shows very low platforms, in fact Queen Victoria seems to be walking on air as she alights in 1845!

 

gosport_old(1845)5.jpg

Note: picture is reversed - should have carriage on the left. The picture shows Prince Albert in the carriage doorway and King Louis Philippe is helping the Queen alight. Outside a huge storm was blowing and it was decided that the King could not return to France by his boat moored in the harbour. By the evening the King was restless to get home in case another revolution was brewing. The LSWR were told to provide an engine to take him back to London. He left Gosport at 7:45pm and arrived at Nine Elms at 10:30pm. His party crossed London to New Cross station where a huge fire was raging. The King reached Dover at 02:30am. Reading the historic accounts it's incredible that so many dignities and troops met the King at short notice on his journey including  directors of the railways and mayors of the London and Dover. I doubt the railway companies today would pull out the stops and achieve such timings. On the inward journey a week earlier the King asked for his congratulations to be passed to the engine driver for an outstanding performance from such a small engine!  It would be another 2 years before the Paris to Le Havre railway would be fully open.

Full account here London Illustrated News 19 Oct 1844  (scanned copy - hard to read)

 

Edited by Alan_LSWR
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I have two photos of Thankerton Station (between Carstairs Junction and Abington) which clearly show how the building has been altered to accommodate the increase in platform height.

 

The first can be dated to summer 1885 as Central Station Hotel opened on 1st June that year.

1745264337_Thankertonoriginal.jpg.449cb3ffd9b2d8f679b1817a321c5f91.jpg

 

I would put the second as perhaps 1920's-30's going by the clothing.

546794209_Thankertonaltered.jpg.7e39bbc6ab10a2addc21fdb9f7111154.jpg

 

If you compare the positions of the lintels you can see that the windows and doors have all been raised by around the depth of a quoin (9- 12"?).  Friends of ours converted the building to a house when it closed and they distinctly recall that the window sills on the platform side were unusually high, so it would seem that the internal floors remained at the same height.

 

Jim

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A funny thing happened on the way to the forum supermarket...

I stopped in at the model shop to pick up some bits, and there, languishing in the second-hand bin with a 50p price sticker on was this:

20200104_174513.jpg

 

At first glance it looks like the standard Hornby 4-wheeler, lengthened by a compartment, but the beading is actually raised on this toy. The wheels are huge, and the chassis looked like it would be an easy conversion to take pinpoint bearings, but further investigation suggests that a Ratio chassis would be a better bet, as even using 12mm wheels the original solebar is far too high. There's also a moulded face (well, nose) at the other end. Clarabel had a quick nose job with a file, and the end windows have been filled in, ready to add microstrip beading to the other end. This should be a quick, cheap bit of fun, which will hopefully result in another piece of 4-wheeled rolling stock.

I then found some DPM modular building parts (HO scale, intended for building big American warehouses and industrial buildings. Before I knew what was happening, an hour and a half had passed and this appeared on the layout:

1495248213_GoodsShed.jpg.06589ca9b6895ed12f8ed549a8eebee2.jpg

 

The windows are rather large in comparison to the horse! The stretcher-bond brick leaves something to be desired also. How long this will last remains to be seen - I suspect it will suffice as a placeholder for now. 

 

I then had a thought that it might look better with some of the soldier rows of bricks (the vertical, edge-on ones) and the arches picked out in engineer's blue... but I got distracted picking out bits of the station building instead, which has a much nicer representation of English bond brickwork. Possibly too distracted, I may have gone a little over the top! But there's still more to do...
 

1072482073_LintonStationBuilding.jpg.0d607db128f564e5919e3870c7102d61.jpg

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All in all a very productive trip to the supermarket.  Some TtTE toys are highly bashable into becoming proper models.  I've more than likely still got some in a box somewhere.

I don't think the windows on the goods shed look that far out of proportion and they look reasonable enough to me.  Some paintwork detailing on the arches and a little weathering to pull it all together would work wonders in my opinion.

 

I like what you've done with your station building.  Staff often had a lot of pride in the stations where they worked and kept up their appearance so I don't think you've gone over the top.

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  • Skinnylinny changed the title to Great Southern Railway (Fictitious) - Signalling and Carriage Trucks

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