dibber25 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 A couple of early items: the Suburban service handbill for the West Midlands with a DMU from what I suspect is A.N. Wolstenholme artwork, and an official BR print of W50050. (CJL) 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 These prints are stamped Feb 1965 which would tie in with a visit we made to Handborough only a week or two after Churchill's funeral (which was Jan 1965). An up 116 is seen arriving, and then alongside a down 116 in the platform. I guess Worcester line local services were mainly 116s at this time? (CJL) 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 Here is the third section of Territory. 3. Bristol DMU operation was introduced in the latter part of 1958. A substantial fleet of Cross-Country sets was allocated to Bristol, reaching places that the suburban sets did not reach. The following list covers only those routes covered by the suburban sets: Bristol – Avonmouth Dock – Severn Beach – Pilning LL – Bristol Avonmouth Dock – Henbury – Bristol Bristol – Weston-super-Mare, with journeys to Taunton Bristol – Bath Spa – Chippenham, with journeys to Swindon Chippenham – Calne Bath Spa – Trowbridge – Westbury Swindon – Melksham – Westbury One journey Chippenham – Bruton – Westbury In the Avonmouth Dock group of routes there were short workings to stations such as Clifton Down, Lawrence Hill and St Andrews Road. The summer 1959 carriage working programme shows that sets were stabled as follows: Bath Spa (1 3-car), Chippenham (2 2-car), Weston-super-Mare (1 3-car), Bristol Dr Day’s (2 3-car, 2 4-car), Bristol Marsh Junction (1 2-car, 1 3-car). On Saturday nights only a 2-car set was stabled at Westbury instead of Marsh Junction. Refuelling points were at Marsh Junction and probably Westbury. The installation at Weymouth was not scheduled to be visited by the suburban sets at this time. I also have a clarification with regard to Tyseley: The overview above omitted the afternoon working, introduced in April 1958, from Wolverhampton to Didcot and its return next day. In 1961 this was formed with one 116 and one Cross-Country set. In the Midlands CWP the diagrams are shown as London Division sets. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the London CWP refers to Birmingham Division sets. I incline to the latter interpretation, if only because as far as I am aware no Cross-Country sets were allocated to London at the time. A good historian should never rely on only one source! Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 No drawings, alas, but this film taken around later DMU days does have some shots of the Canton fueller, near the start and again towards the end. It's a great record of the Valleys and the 116 DMUs (plus guest appearances from other DMU classes), with, of course, some class 37s interspersed. Love that video, thanks for posting. Really miss that DMU engine "rasp" - I purchased a few DCC sound projects but none of them have captured a first generation DMU that well. The 101 looked "out of place" in South Wales - how dare it interlope into 116 territory! But it didn't deserve the huge CONDEMMED sign, albeit very neatly written! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 I had not seen Chris Dibber's post when I made my last one. The two 116s at Handborough in 1965 are of particular interest - thank you! I'm guessing that they belong to Tyseley, if only because I cannot find any evidence that Reading had any at this time. Heavens, what have I started?! Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted March 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) In later years in the 60s in my experience units on the Cotswold line at the Worcester end were Tyesley units ....but there were not many turns by then and IIRC none went past Moreton in Marsh .... Phil Edited March 22, 2018 by Phil Bullock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I had not seen Chris Dibber's post when I made my last one. The two 116s at Handborough in 1965 are of particular interest - thank you! I'm guessing that they belong to Tyseley, if only because I cannot find any evidence that Reading had any at this time. Heavens, what have I started?! Chris Unfortunately my interest by this time had turned away from 'train spotting' , so I never took the numbers. A pity, really, but I've checked my old notebooks and there's no Worcester line trip details. I had evidently got in to logging runs, however, and there are trips with D848, D1064 and a Hymek. (CJL) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) I've had another look at the Handborough photo and find that I overlooked a vital clue. In the driver's cab of each unit is a card with figures printed on it. Such cards denoted the set/duty number used by Tyseley. If [big if!] one has ones eyes peeled those cards make it possible to spot a Tyseley set a mile off. Chris Edited April 4, 2018 by chrisf 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Another few gems follow, courtesy and copyright of Robert Masterman. . Bob's notes identify the leading car as W50858 at Cardiff, Queen Street on 20th. March, 1967 (51yrs ago this week !). . He adds that this was the first such unit he recorded in rail blue livery. . Brian R Edited March 22, 2018 by br2975 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Another livery variation, courtesy and copyright of Robert Masterman. . An undated shot, of a Penarth - Rhymney (the destination blind is incorrect !) service standing at Llanbradach. . The trailing power car is sadly unidentified, but is noteworthy in that it is in umlined green livery, with a small yellow warning panel. . Brian R Edited March 22, 2018 by br2975 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Another livery gem courtesy and copyright of Robert Masterman. . A Penarth - Rhymney working is captured arriving at Ystrad Mynach during 1967. . From Bob's notes and my research, it appears the set is formed W50863 + W59371 + W50916, which as far as I can find was the only Canton unit so adorned, with wrap around yellow front, including cab doors. . Brian R Edited March 22, 2018 by br2975 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 A bumper bundle indeed! Thank you, Brian, and please thank Mr Masterman on behalf of us all. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 A bumper bundle indeed! Thank you, Brian, and please thank Mr Masterman on behalf of us all. Chris As you will no doubt be aware Chris, there are many more where these came from.......'benevolent' Bob's almost bottomless pit of images since circa 1963. . I'll trawl through his available collection as this thread develops. . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 This may seem disjointed, as I have kept the power cars in order from my previous post, added a few further sets, and prefixed the formations with their Western Region 'C' for Canton set numbers, as per my sightings between 1971 and 1973. . If anyone is confused, please let me know and I'll do my best to explain Brian R C303 - 50080+59030+50122 C306 - 50081+59031+50123 C304 - 50082+59340+50124 by 03/02/1972 prev. C344 C347 - 50084+59373+50126 C308 - 50086+59036+50128 C317 - 50087+59037+50129 C314 - 50088+59362+50130 C318 - 50089+59039+50131 C310 - 50091+59041+50133 C321 - 50834+59038+50887 C337 - 50836+59344+50889 C319 - 50839+59347+50892 C328 - 50842+59350+50895 C323 - 50843+59355+50896 C329 - 50844+59335+50897 C315 - 50845+59353+50898 C354 - 50847+59357+50900 C320 - 50848+59356+50901 C331 - 50851+59359+50904 C302 - 50855+59363+50908 C338 - 50856+59364+50909 C305 - 50857+59368+50910 C346 - 50858+59366+50911 C313 - 50863+59371+50916 C351 - 50864+59369+50917 C327 - 50866+59374+50919 C316 - 50867+59375+50920 C309 - 50869+59035+50922 C330 - 51128+59357+51141 by 20/07/1976 C311 - 51132+59034+51145 C307 - 51134+59444+51147 by 16/04/1973 prev. C304 C300 - 51135+59445+51148 C301 - 51136+59446+51149 C353 - 51138+59448+51151 C312 - 51139+59033+51152 C304 - 51140+59032+51153 by 24/04/1973 . P354 - 50868+59365+50918 by 29/06/1973 . L345 - 50862+50872 as at 29/08/1972 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Following on from my previous post; conspicuous by its' absence is the Canton power-twin formed of W50090+W50132. . The 1971-1972 WTT and DMU diagrams show it referred to as "Set No.145" which was serviced each weekend at Canton, running to Swansea on a Monday morning, with a Swindon Cross Country Unit (Cl.120). . The power-twin then spent the rest of the week shuttling around the Swansea area, with two, maybe three daily trips to Carmarthen and back, invariably coupled to a Cross Country set. . However, as I have mentioned before, the power-twin was occasionally split and each car used as a 'booster' on the North and West route services between Cardiff and Crewe, where locked out of use they were used to assist the under powered Cl.120 Swindon Cross Country buffet units in maintaining the timings. . Some sightings (with dates) were as follows; 50090+50683+59294+50735 – 23/10/71,50090+50732+59298+50674 – 20/11/71,50090+50729+59266+50660 – 28/12/7150132+50647+59265+50705+55025 – 01/05/7150132+50647+59265+50705 – 20/11/71 Brian R Edited March 26, 2018 by br2975 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Yet another 'gem' care and copyright of Robert Masterman . It's 1966, and the location is Cadoxton. . From the then current Cardiff valleys DMU Diagrams we are looking at Set No.221 and set No.224 (diagram numbers, not actual set numbers) . This is another rarity captured by Bob. . The two units had arrived at Cadoxton on the 17:05 Sundays Only ECS from Cardiff Queen Street, due at 17:23. . For twenty minutes, the sets stabled on the stump pf the former Barry Railway Cadoxton - Wenvoe - Ty'n Y Caeau Jct. line, normally where the Penarth - Cadoxton single car shuttle would lay over between turns from Mondays to Saturdays.. . Its' twenty minute rest complete, this six car unit would return to Cadoxton from the siding, and depart as the 17:43 Sundays Only ECS to Sully, due 17:47. . The units then formed the 17:48 Sully - Cardiff Queen St. (due 18:18). . One of those workings lost to memory, but luckily saved for posterity by Bob's camera . . Brian R 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 26, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2018 Following on from my previous post; conspicuous by its' absence is the Canton power-twin formed of W50090+W50132. . The 1971-1972 WTT and DMU diagrams show it referred to as "Set No.145" which was serviced each weekend at Canton, running to Swansea on a Monday morning, with a Swindon Cross Country Unit (Cl.120). . The power-twin then spent the rest of the week shuttling around the Swansea area, with two, maybe three daily trips to Carmarthen and back, invariably coupled to a Cross Country set. . However, as I have mentioned before, the power-twin was occasionally split and each car used as a 'booster' on the North and West route services between Cardiff and Crewe, where locked out of use they were used to assist the under powered Cl.120 Swindon Cross Country buffet units in maintaining the timings. . Some sightings (with dates) were as follows; 50090+50683+59294+50735 – 23/10/71, 50090+50732+59298+50674 – 20/11/71, 50090+50729+59266+50660 – 28/12/71 50132+50647+59265+50705+55025 – 01/05/71 50132+50647+59265+50705 – 20/11/71 Brian R The 'boosters' on the North to West were in my time as a guard at Canton. Locked out of use, they were used by traincrews travelling home 'on the cushions', and it was not long before seats were taken out to be used as card tables or made into beds. They were replaced with bubble cars, to which the same happened. This was the start of a long process of providing enough power to maintain the timetables on this hilly and difficult route. The Cross Country+booster were superceded by 4-car Swindon Inter-City sets, which also failed to cut the mustard although they were undoubtedly more comfortable, then by Class 25s with 5, 4, and finally 3 mk1s. The 25s never had a hope, even with 3 on, and were in their turn replaced by 33s, which managed to keep time with 4 on. ETH stock resulted in 37/4's by the late 80s, with 4 on, and these coped well enough until replacement by 158s. It is a 90mph route and at least the loco hauled trains could manage this on the downhill stretches; the dmus never really had a hope, not being able to recover time in this way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 Evening all I hope to start the next episode this week. It will deal with Migration and cover not just movements away from the Western Region but loans and transfers within. For the past few days I have been trying to get my head round one particular chapter but it has been doing my brain in! Leave me to worry about that. In the meantime, thanks again to all who have contributed. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 The 'boosters' on the North to West were in my time as a guard at Canton. Locked out of use, they were used by traincrews travelling home 'on the cushions', and it was not long before seats were taken out to be used as card tables or made into beds. They were replaced with bubble cars, to which the same happened. [y/quote]. Pedant mode on ! . The bubble cars came first on the North and West preceding W50090 and W50132. . BR realised the Swindon Cross Country units weren't keeping time so drafted in the two bubble cars from the soon to be withdrawn Bridgend-Cymmer Afan service. . A pair of Park Royal Cl.103 units were unloaded onto Canton by the LMR at Chester, but were found to be underpowered for the Cymmer Afan service, so were made into a power-twin, the trailers being stored at Canton. . The Park Royal set(s) didn't last long and with the end of the Cymmer service wandered the WR looking for a home. . The Cl.116 boosters only appeared to be used when the Pressed Steel bubble cars were unavailable. . Brian R 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Were the wandering 103s the ones that eventually landed up on the Henley-on-Thames branch service? (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) Were the wandering 103s the ones that eventually landed up on the Henley-on-Thames branch service? (CJL) I'm pretty sure they were. I looked it up a while back but at this time of the morning I'm not very good at finding things - or knowing where to look, for that matter. Chris EDIT - found it. I wrote this for a forum post in 2010: CLASS 103 ON THE WR To replace W55025 [CTN101] and W55026 [CTN102] on the Cymmer – Bridgend service M50413+56168 and M50414+56169 were transferred to Canton from Chester in May 1970. The two power cars were formed into set CTN100 and the trailers stored. The two displaced 121 cars were then used as additional power cars on the Cardiff – Crewe service. The 103 power cars were clearly an outstanding success [not] for on 7th June they were reunited with their trailers and sent to Reading, replaced at Canton by W55022 [CTN10] and W55023 [CTN103]. They were put to work on the Henley branch. By November 1970 four 103 sets were based at Reading [50411-4 and 56166-9, sets RDG111-4] working on diagrams taking them to Marlow, Windsor, Greenford and, as a special treat on Sundays, Paddington. On 7th January 1971 50413+56168 failed on the Henley branch and were replaced by taxis until a 3-car 123 set could be found. On 27th August 1971 50414+56169 were on a Reading – Paddington diagram, which was described as most unusual. Perhaps that member didn’t get out much. Edited March 27, 2018 by chrisf 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) CLASS 103 ON THE WR ........................................................ M50413+56168 and M50414+56169 were transferred to Canton from Chester in May 1970. The two power cars were formed into set CTN100 and the trailers stored. The two displaced 121 cars were then used as additional power cars on the Cardiff – Crewe service. The 103 power cars were clearly an outstanding success [not] for on 7th June they were reunited with their trailers and sent to Reading, There I was, late spring in 1970, a love struck teenager, 'saying good night' to my then flame Janet ( who was unaware of my hobby !), at her garden gate..........from where a glimpse of the South Wales main line could be had. . During this romantic interlude, I raised my right eye to look over her head to check out what was burbling past.......................to my utmost shock, the Park Royal power-twin, working ECS from Bridgend to Canton. . Janet dumped me soon afterwards, and later moved 'up country'...................I remain unsure whether it was anything I did, or said that spring evening ? . Brian R Edited March 27, 2018 by br2975 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted March 27, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) There I was, late spring in 1970, a love struck teenager, 'saying good night' to my then flame Janet ( who was unaware of my hobby !), at her garden gate..........from where a glimpse of the South Wales main line could be had. . During this romantic interlude, I raised my right eye to look over her head to check out what was burbling past.......................to my utmost shock, the Park Royal power-twin, working ECS from Bridgend to Canton. . Janet dumped me soon afterwards, and later moved 'up country'...................I remain unsure whether it was anything I did, or said that spring evening ? . Brian R Just think-if that dmu hadn't worked past at that moment, the whole course of your life could have turned out totally different! Kids may have been born that weren't, who knows what they & you would be doing, and where, now! The whole course of history may have been changed but for that one ECS working! Edited March 28, 2018 by rodent279 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 I'm pretty sure they were. I looked it up a while back but at this time of the morning I'm not very good at finding things - or knowing where to look, for that matter. Chris Now I'll have to go find the photo! (CJL) Sorry for going off topic - must remember this is about 116s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Now I'll have to go find the photo! (CJL) Sorry for going off topic - must remember this is about 116s. Lateral thinking Chris......... The Cymmer Afan service from Bridgend only lasted as long as it for two reasons (I) an unadvertised workmen's service from Llangynwyd to Duffryn Rhondda washery via a reversal at Cymmer, and (II) a school contract taking kids from Cymmer to school in the next valley. Both services were or had been Derby Suburban Cl.116 diagrams,whereas the normal weekday service was a Pressed Steel Cl.121 single car...... so there is a tenuous link between the Park Royals, bubble cars and the subject matter of 116s. The benefits of research are the spin off topics ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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