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Burton-on-Trent South - Upper Level Tracklaying


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Thanks for the wiring plan too: most helpful.

Mine is R068 B.R. Class 25 Diesel - Blue. The date on the instructions is 14.07.77: looks like I started work just a few years before you!  Silver Seal was how they classified their new models in the 70s. Looking back, it was when they moved from the X04 and equivalent worm drive motor bogies to can style motors.  Having got it out to read the number I opened it up too. The inside looks identical to your photos.

All I need now is time and inclination!

Paul.

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1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

Thanks for the wiring plan too: most helpful.

Mine is R068 B.R. Class 25 Diesel - Blue. The date on the instructions is 14.07.77: looks like I started work just a few years before you!  Silver Seal was how they classified their new models in the 70s. Looking back, it was when they moved from the X04 and equivalent worm drive motor bogies to can style motors.  Having got it out to read the number I opened it up too. The inside looks identical to your photos.

All I need now is time and inclination!

Paul.

Paul,

 

Indeed, I started work in 1980 after spending 3-years at Liverpool University, so I know your 'new' location quite well.

 

Time? Just check your watch .... :haha:

Inclination? Add a gradient to the layout .... :haha:

 

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Rolling Stock - Updating 1980s Purchases - Coaching Stock



Further to my previous posting about updating 1980s locomotives, I've also been busy over the last months updating my fleet of 1980s vintage coaches. Back then I bought coaches at £1.85 or £2.30 ish:yahoo_mini:, so if these can be made to look 'decent' then I'm onto quite a saving over buying new, or even buying secondhand on the-Bay.

 

So, in an effort to make them look presentable for use on Burton-on-Trent South, the following work has been completed on them:

  1. Lima Mk.1
    1. Ends painted in blue to cover the moulded black
    2. C1 & OHLE marking added
    3. Coupling changed to Kadee
    4. Glazing replaced with SE Finecast
    5. Interior painted
  2. Lima Mk.1 Buffet Cars
    1. Ends painted in blue to cover the moulded black
    2. C1 & OHLE marking added
    3. Coupling changed to Kadee
    4. Glazing replaced with SE Finecast
    5. Interior lavatory partition added
    6. Interior painted
    7. Bogies replaced with correct Commonwealth type, and the underframe 'raised' to permit fitting
  3. Lima Mk2b
    1. C1 & OHLE marking added
    2. Coupling changed to Kadee
    3. Glazing replaced with SE Finecast
    4. Interior lavatory partitions added
    5. Interior painted
    6. Bogies rotated 180-degree to correct orientation
  4. Airfix Mk.2d
    1. C1 & OHLE marking added
    2. Coupling changed to Kadee
    3. Interior lavatory partitions added
    4. Interior painted, although it's not that visible through the 'tinted' windows:banghead:
    5. Underframe and bogies painted matt black to over the moulded' brown'

And, of course, all the coaches have been renumbered :read: using my trusty 1976 RCTS Coaching Stock book.

 

Here are a few photos of the results:

 

Lima Mk.1:

20191123_143547_resize.jpg.089b776eede900abb52bce57ec010257.jpg

 

Lima Mk.1 Buffet:

20191123_143200_resize.jpg.4da7fc9cb4f518af667890f65a6d8463.jpg

 

Lima Mk.2b:

20191123_143855_resize.jpg.37d7636dfde87d06a118d02066225fc0.jpg

 

Airfix Mk.2d:

20191123_144222_resize.jpg.9d0d3bebf2e90a24f5da6a1ed70cc879.jpg

 

There are still a few more 'improvements' that I could make including by adding further transfers to the coach ends. I've not resorted to changing the wheels yet (except where Commonwealth bogies were fitted), so the Lima ones retain their 'pizza cutters' and the Airfix ones still have plastic wheels :mosking:.

 

I'm pleasantly pleased with the results, and they look fairly good in a rake of 7 or 8 coaches. About my only problem is a proliferation of Lima Mk.1 CKs (corridor composites) and a dearth of Mk.1 TSOs (second opens):mad_mini:. Even the-Bay has not been helpful on that front, although I did find an early Bachmann TSO at a recent model railway show.

 

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Great to see what you are doing!

 

With the Lima restaurant coaches, are you going to add the circular vents on the roof and square gas bottle cabinets to the under frame ? It can make them stand out a bit more!

https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2932.php

 

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/MostynCoachGallery.html

Edited by muddy water
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18 hours ago, muddy water said:

Great to see what you are doing!

 

With the Lima restaurant coaches, are you going to add the circular vents on the roof and square gas bottle cabinets to the under frame ? It can make them stand out a bit more!

https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2932.php

 

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/MostynCoachGallery.html

 

Hmmm, that wasn't on my mind, but your comments have now put it there:bb:. I can see how the roof vents improve things, but that would mean me moving into airbrushing territory for the roof and that's not something I'm currently comfortable with:unsure_mini: (although I have bought an airbrush already. Maybe I should unbox it ...). Something to consider for next summer after some airbrushing practice:paint:.

 

The square cabinets in the underframe I could have a go at. A few rectangles of styrene and a coat of matt black paint (by brush). I will give that some more thought:scratchhead:.

 

Glad you liked the posting. With the upper level baseboards on hold until the warmer weather (don't fancy measuring a cutting in a cold garage ...:fan:) I'm keeping myself occupied with the rolling stock. I prepared a spreadsheet to document the carriage conversions and renumbering, and was somewhat surprised to find I had 58 coaches and parcels vehicles:scenic:. I have enough for 6 complete rakes and a parcels train. That makes it rather hard to justify purchasing the 'missing' Mk.1 second opens. Hard, but not impossible:lol:.

 

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30 minutes ago, muddy water said:

You could use a rattle can from Halfords or Poundland to spray the roofs separately as they are removable.

Now that does sound tempting ....

 

I do have 'previous' with Wilko grey primer on the Lima interiors.

 

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31 minutes ago, muddy water said:

Out of interest , how have you made your rakes up? A list would be useful if you have the time!

The rakes are 'currently' assembled as:

  1. Mk.1   - BCK+CK+Buffet+CK+CK+CK+BSK+BG
  2. Mk.2d - BG+FO+FO+Buffet+SO+SO+SO+BSO
  3. Mk.1   - BSK+SO+CK+Buffet+CK+CK+BSK+BG
  4. Mk.2d - FO+FO+Buffet+SO+SO+SO+BSO+BG
  5. Mk.2b - BFK+FK+FK+Buffet+SO+SO+BSO+BG
  6. Mk.2b - BG+BFK+FK+MicroBuffet+SO+SO+BSO

Obviously, all the BGs and Buffets are Mk.1 regardless of the rake make-up. And, yes I do have too many CK (corridor composites) to be properly realistic!

 

The rakes are assembled as-best-as-I-can from my memories of train-spotting back in the 1970s, which included carriage spotting in its later years. Sad, I know. 

 

There are also some 'spares' not currently in the rakes; 2x Mk.2d FO + 1s Mk.2d SO + 1x Mk.1 BCK, and there is a parcels rake 'chucked together' at present as:

BG(Express Parcels)+Siphon-G+BG(Newspapers)+GUV(Express Parcels)+CCT+CCT+BG(LMS)+BG(LMS).

 

When I can get round to it, I'll upload a PDF tabulating the 'fleet', including running numbers, manufacturer, and model number.

 

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Rolling Stock - Updating 1980s Purchases - Coaching Stock Listing

 

As mentioned in my previous posting, please find below my coaching stock listing:scenic:. You can see where I've renumbered the coaches and/or applied other 'conversions' to result in a reasonable fleet of coaches. You may also spot a few more 'recent' purchases, some of which were actually new:heat:. They are sorted by their vehicle number:

 

1137067917_CoachingStockListing_1.jpg.217c5d0997f801b4de8fdbd47657a9cc.jpg

 

2123699193_CoachingStockListing_2.jpg.8bdc5305e07f028619f9681247b4fdce.jpg

 

Still plenty of 'tweaking' to do to the fleet, especially on the markings. Many of my BGs are missing the "Load not to exceed ..." and the designation / information panel should be added to the coach ends:read:.

 

If you are wondering what the "Image Found" column is all about:dontknow:, it's to record if I've located a suitable photo / image of the coach (in model form) from the interweb; usually from the Hattons website!:haha: If you've every used JMRIs DecoderPro program for DCC computer control of locomotives, you'll know that that software includes the option to display a nice image of the locomotive. My plan is to have the spreadsheet display the image of the item selected. I've got it part working in the spreadsheet (using a bit of VBA code), but it's a bit 'clunky' at present:rtfm:. It is also in need of 'tweaking'.

 

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2 minutes ago, muddy water said:

Great !

Was this done in excel?

So you can add to JMRI?

Yep, prepared in Excel, but as far as I know, JMRI only accepts XML files (unless there is an import?).

 

I did have a look in JMRI, but couldn't see how I could enter the coaches in there. Have I missed something?:read:

 

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2 hours ago, muddy water said:

I have not touched it yet!

I have used yard office. Which allows you to export files in cvs format for other uses. I would rather spent time modelling rather than data entry!!

Me thinks I'll stick with a 'simple' Excel spreadsheet for my purposes. Had a look in JMRI at the 'Cars' functions (typical Americans ...) but that's more directed towards 'operations' than fleet rosters.

 

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  • 1 month later...

A Bus Interlude ....

 

Yes, yes, there's plenty of talk on these Forums about buses on bridges:rtfm:. Well, I've been getting a little collection of buses together for the roads and bridges that will, eventually, appear on the Upper Level baseboard.:senile:

 

Being based on Burton-on-Trent there could be no other than Midland Red [1]. I used them to get to the Grammar School back in the day, for the first part of the journey at least.

 

So here is the 'fleet' as it currently stands:

20200112_202920_resize.jpg.71a9ef56491ef44dba8ffe3423e22df5.jpg

The single-deckers are the ones I would have been using. Double-deckers didn't frequent Burton:sorry:, but it's a case of getting what's available on the market.:search:

 

[1] - It would be nice to include a few of the East Staffordshire District Corporation (ESDC) buses (they took over from Burton Corporation) despite their garish colour scheme of Green / White / Red bands (Hungarian flag upside-down!) but models do not appear to exist - unless you know differently ...:help:

 

 

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On 24/11/2019 at 20:12, muddy water said:

Out of interest , how have you made your rakes up? A list would be useful if you have the time!

Recently I've started the mammoth task of scanning in my old slides:banghead:, circa 1977 to 1982. Takes an age, although the scanner (and my feeding / unloading activities) can do about 50 per hour:rtfm:, with a little preparation (some slides have mould on them that I have to clean off). I've got around 2500 to do ...:boredom:

 

I came across this one from 5th April 1978 showing 47521 on the 10:45 Aberdeen - Kings Cross (The Aberdonian), which shows a typical East Coast mainline MkIId rake of coaches, complete with MkI BG and Buffet car.

ScanImage-0128.jpg.06c06b4e2c6e98f779f636d90ae7be7b.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, ISW said:

some slides have mould on them that I have to clean off

I have slide scanning to start once we’re moved, thanks for input on the rate I can aim for.

I will also have mould to clear off them so tips about what will work safely will be gratefully accepted.

Paul.

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1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

I have slide scanning to start once we’re moved, thanks for input on the rate I can aim for.

I will also have mould to clear off them so tips about what will work safely will be gratefully accepted.

Paul.

Paul,

 

Slide scanning speed will depend on your scanner, its type, its connection to your computer and the DPI you set it to:good_mini:. My 50/hr is based on a vintage (~2003?) Konica Minolta DiMage Scan Dual IV, with a max DPI of 3200, connected by USB2. It's a purpose designed slide scanner, and takes a 'tray' of 4 slides at a time. With my scan settings of 3200 DPI it takes 1 minute (ish) for each slide, so a tray of 4 takes around 5 minutes (allowing for unloading / reloading), hence the ~50/hr figure (if  I can keep up and maintain concentration! :heat:). It's a boring process so best to have something to watch on YouTube or TV :music:.

 

I've previous experience of cleaning negatives when I did ~7,500 back in 2003/04 using the same machines. For negatives I wiped them under luke warm water using my, soft (?), fingers and then hung them up to dry on an indoor washing line, remembering to wipe clear the water drops that form at the lowest point.

 

For the current project of slide scanning the mould is nothing like as bad as the negatives were:dance_mini:, and I've found that a cotton bud dipped in water can be used to gently clean the 'back' of the slides (the mould is always on the 'back' - where the actual picture is formed). I then wipe them over with a new and clean soft cheap microfibre cloth to dry them to between 80% & 90%. No need to rub hard and get them 100% dry, this can lead to scratches:mad_mini:. These then stand (stacked actually ...) for about 5-minutes:whistle: (while the previous tray of 4 slides scan) for them to completely dry. I generally keep cleaning while the scanning proceeds until I've a good stack ready.

 

When I mount them into the tray I clean both sides of the slides with a soft brush (a typical makeup type brush) and then blow them over with one of those squeezy air-blowers (the ones you used to get to clean lenses on cameras) to get any dust or hairs off the slides.

 

Progress goes in fits-and-starts, but the overall process works well:toclue:.

 

I've also noticed that the film type of the slides affects the propensity for mould to form. FujiFilm seems the worse, and Kodak the least affected, with Agfa in the middle. Remember, these slides are >40-years old and have been stored in an attic for all them time in Boots (the Chemist) slide boxes that hold 200 in individual slots. I've also got some slides in their original Agfa / FujiFilm / Kodak slide boxes, but I don't yet know is they faired better or worse!

 

Happy scanning ....

 

 

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2 hours ago, muddy water said:

Class 47 in rail brown! Must be a freight locomotive replacement!

 

Nice to see that 'rail blue' was such a varied colour ... Keeps some modellers busy for hours weathering ...

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

A Little Freightliner Project

 

Recently I made a purchase through an online auction:o, the type where you bid live online or in the auction house. Quite an interesting experience. I only bid because the actual auction was only a few miles away, so I could go there to collect, otherwise the postage would have been prohibitive:dance_mini:.

 

What I ended up with was a box containing:

  • 8x Hornby R633 freightliner wagons
  • 1x Hornby R719 freightliner wagon (same as R633 but moulded in blue/teal plastic) & missing 2 wheelsets
  • 12x 40ft containers
  • 9x 20ft containers
  • 1x Hornby R6485 KFA freightliner wagon c/w NOL container (20ft) and P&O container (40ft)

Quite a nice little auction Lot.

 

The R719 is not of much use, but it may come in useful for 'spares' at some point in the future. Ditto the R6485, which doesn't fit in with my 1970s era. I may have to put the unboxed R6485 on TheBay and recover a few pennies:clapping_mini:.

 

The 8x R633 were treated to some 'improvements':rtfm: (?). Firstly I had to get the containers off the wagons. Why do people glue them on? :banghead:. Once free of their loads, I found that the wagons were really light. Too light. This was rectified by adding some lead weights to the body and the bogies.

 

Lead weight, cut from a ~2mm sheet.

20200117_142027_resize.jpg.9a3cfa67f734db3f2d1cd3acdf63de7c.jpg

 

Weight added to inside of bogie:

20200117_142234_resize.jpg.21080a8a33af02c23f74f3b03802dc9b.jpg

 

Weight was also added to the body. I used superglue + bicarbonate of soda as this 'builds up' and physically prevents the weights falling out.

20200117_142208_resize.jpg.58d708928cba8d3776d9bf00e25fcc31.jpg

 

Next the couplings were cut off, leaving a stub of plastic to which Kadee couplers could be attached. Yep, that mess on the surface is the results of gluing on the containers. Yuck. Thankfully, it's not that visible when the wagons are on the layout.

20200131_170338_resize.jpg.85c9a4ee4713418c83617ad5948008b6.jpg

 

With having 8x R633 I decided it would be a good idea to convert 4 of them from FFA to FGA, by adding the buffers to the outer ends of the wagon. Now I know the buffers should be 'above' the bed of the wagon (I did check quite a few photos), but this is not possible with the R633 as Hornby set the bed of the wagon too high. I therefore had to 'compromise'.

 

FGA modification to R633.

20200131_170229_resize.jpg.bafb94cb304079d620c3f9905b17546b.jpg

 

I can now create 2 'sets' comprising FGA+FFA+FFA+FGA. In an ideal world there would be 3x FFA, but I only have 8 wagons total, and my layout couldn't handle a 10-wagon length anyway!

 

It does make for quite an impressive trainload.

20200131_143225_resize.jpg.92d04c891a7f8422cbc5396ad3eeb1ba.jpg

 

Finally, the wagons were treated to some FFA / FGA transfers with individual numbering.

20200131_170200_resize.jpg.205b84c5e34ad6abf7bf78b1a8feb0b7.jpg

 

I did want to have a freightliner train on the layout, but looking at TheBay and retailers, the wagons were going to cost quite a lot. I was fortunate that a local auction had a suitable Lot from which I could start this project.

 

20200119_171603_resize.jpg

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  • 2 months later...

Hi Ian

 

Having just read the thread from start to finish I am feeling rather inadequate this morning, the detail in your planning and the meticulous attention to detail in your work is impressive. Your technical background shines through very clearly and I love your use of older models. I considered using my old 80's/90's Lima and Hornby rolling stock but chose not to because I did'nt feel confident that I could make the upgrades required to get closer to the modern stuff. 

 

I will take a look at your stock list to ensure you have the correct bogies on your coaches when I get a spare few minutes, my only question is why no updates since January?

 

regards Rob

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5 hours ago, young37215 said:

Hi Ian

 

Having just read the thread from start to finish I am feeling rather inadequate this morning, the detail in your planning and the meticulous attention to detail in your work is impressive. Your technical background shines through very clearly and I love your use of older models. I considered using my old 80's/90's Lima and Hornby rolling stock but chose not to because I did'nt feel confident that I could make the upgrades required to get closer to the modern stuff. 

 

I will take a look at your stock list to ensure you have the correct bogies on your coaches when I get a spare few minutes, my only question is why no updates since January?

 

regards Rob

Rob,

 

Thanks for the kind words. After spending a lifetime building 1:1 scale railways around the World I'm pretty used to having things planned out properly in advance. Although I'm not a planner by profession, I've used plans in various software programs including Artemis, Open Plan, Primavera, and MS Project. And, of course, everything was drawn out in AutoCAD.

 

Having a ready-made 'fleet' of coaches, although old Lima ones, really helped me get back into modelling. Yes, they are old and not as well detailed as the current Bachmann and Hornby stuff, but it's been fun to try and bring them up to a presentable standard. This turned out to be not so difficult, and they look quite good now.

 

All the coach numbering has been done with reference to the RCTS Coaching Stock book of 1974, so (hopefully!) I've not dropped any clangers. Please let me know if I have.

 

There's not been any updates since January because there really hasn't been much to mention. The build is currently at the stage where I need to get the plan for the Upper Level finalised. The track layout is done for the Mainlines, but the Depot area needs a bit of tweaking, and the Brewery Area has to be sorted.

It's the Brewery Area layout that I've been working on of late. I want to have some exchange sidings plus some private sidings going off to various brewery buildings. And these need to pass under the Mainlines just south of the station to replicate the real-life arrangement. The Mainlines are on a gradient as well so I'm having to work in 3-dimensions, making sure I don't go so low as to clash with the ramps tracks passing underneath! And all the turnouts have to avoid the baseboard joints, which are already dictated by the baseboard support timberwork. As you can see there are many restrictions / limitations on the design of the Brewery Area. Quite how people manage to built such layouts without a detailed plan is beyond my skill level, or my imagination!

 

Plus we've had our daughters and grand-daughter with us for a number of weeks in January, February, & March so that rather kept me out of the railway room.

 

With any luck I'll get the Brewery Area completed soon, and be able to post some of it's details for others to comment.

 

On the rolling stock side, I've only made a few small purchases this year; a dummy Lima Class 20 (the motor gubbins had been removed) and a few second-hand wagons. I'm saving up the pennies to buy the timber / plywood for the Upper Level baseboards once this lockdown permits such purchases.

 

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Upper Baseboard - Track Layout

 

Well, it has been a long time since I posted something about the layout ... My excuses include, but are not necessarily limited to [1], having the family to stay with us during January, February, and March, plus finding I had come a cropper [2] with my layout design such that I was having all kinds of trouble designing the Upper Level baseboards such that they would support the Upper Level trackwork and be clear of the Ramp Tracks underneath.

Add to that my 'requirement' that each of the Upper Level baseboards had to be capable of being slid out on 'runners' to aid construction and future troubleshooting and I was really stuck.

 

[1] - Contract Document terminology

[2] - Technical term

 

Ignoring the baseboard problem for the moment, I managed to complete the layout for the Fueling Point using an arrangement that reasonably well reflects the real thing circa 1975.

 

Then I started on a layout for the Brewery Lines. I always had the intention to include some Brewery buildings and tracks serving them, including the double-track passing under the mainlines south of the station; also reflecting the real thing up to the late 1960s. After a lot of trials I managed to include a pair of exchange sidings and two Brewery complexes, either side of the Mainline.

 

The resulting layout is shown below. For orientation, the left side is the Door and the bottom is the Window. Burton-on-Trent station is top-right, the Fueling Point is at the top-middle, and the Brewery Lines at the bottom. The orange rectangles are 'placeholders' for Brewery buildings. The Ramp tracks join at 'To Connection 1' (6 tracks) and 'To Connection 2a' (2 tracks): 

1299412332_modelrailwayPlan42-upperbaseboards4.jpg.791759d65255e20672805b30b040c1ed.jpg

 

With a finalised (ha ha ... there are sure to be changes!) track layout I could draw in the supporting Baseboards (10 of them - although 2 have sub-boards) as below. As the Upper Level baseboards share the supporting timber structure with the Lower Level baseboards, they have to be identical in plan size:

808684956_modelrailwayPlan42-upperbaseboards5.jpg.14fe8b313c22e2cbfff2ef0667f1fc68.jpg

 

Now this may not look like much progress, but it's like an iceberg. 90% of the work is underneath the Upper Level baseboards! I'll explain later.

 

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  • ISW changed the title to Burton-on-Trent South - Upper Level Tracklaying

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