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Carl. H.

Shirebrook - N Gauge 1980's era layout.

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Hello Everyone,

More pics... but with the right  locos this time!

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23 hours ago, Duncan. said:

Thanks for your kind words Millerhillboy... the track is Peco code 55 so not as bad as code 80. When I started to build Shirebrook it was the best available, I do fancy building my own but it's a matter of time ( or rather the lack of it) plus I worry about the robustness of hand built track for exhibitions. Peco  track is strong. The trees are Sea Moss and the undergrowth a mix of scatter, static grass and  brambles from a war gaming outfit. Yes the locos and rolling stock have vastly improved but sometimes I think that de-skills model making, because the modeller doesn't have to do it for him/herself..., It gives me the time to do some structures instead. I did weather down the loco.

Cheers

Duncan

 

No you are right, a lot of people reckon code 55 is a good option and rightly so, my comment was in no way meant as a criticism by the way. I know full well the track dilemma, having had baseboards built for a few years now whilst pondering over which track to use, to the point of buying a load of code 55 which I'm now not using and I've now dived in a had all the track for my layout built using finetrax (I've no interest in doing it myself so someone built it for me). The layout is stalled until the winter but I've got 20+ sets of finetrax points made plus all the flex so it'll be interesting to see how that works out.

Like you I had concerns over its strength, not because I'm exhibiting in this case, but just because I have young kids. Saying that the early signs are that there is nothing to worry at least witht the plain track. I found that once the ballast was down (I've made a few test pieces) the whole thing really firms up and feels really rather robust. I've not yet had any real world experience with the points though which could be a different kettle of fish, I don't know yet.

 

Either way, code 55 still looks very good as your layout shows.

Edited by millerhillboy
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On 17/08/2019 at 19:45, Duncan. said:

I lived in Worksop for a short while in the early 90s so knew this area well.  I've seen few layouts capture a real location so perfectly as this photo shows; even if you had called the layout something else I would still have immediately said SHIREBROOK.

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5 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I lived in Worksop for a short while in the early 90s so knew this area well.  I've seen few layouts capture a real location so perfectly as this photo shows; even if you had called the layout something else I would still have immediately said SHIREBROOK.

Thanks Northmoor. Similarly at an exhibition a lady told us that as a little girl she remembers sitting right there, pointing to the grass near Station Road overbridge, we would try to guess how many trucks would be on the next train! She said the same as you that it was like walking back into her memories. Referenced site photo attached.

Cheers

Duncan 

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On 19/08/2019 at 21:37, Duncan. said:

Evening Everyone,

I have finished the catwalks and laddering and the radio mast at Shirebrook, note the cabling between the admin block and radio tower and junction boxes on the building.  The etches I drew were very fine and delicate, soldering up was difficult, I'm sure that one of you could do better, the metalwork was painted with a colour from the Humbrol Metalcote range. Trunking and junction boxes built from styrene sections.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/IMG_1471.JPG.1144470baf76136e5641e9da8479e1b2.JPG

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/IMG_1478.JPG.2edb8baeba9962cc4bdbee18d1fac15a.JPG

This looks so realistic Duncan. Fantastic work.

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Evening Everyone,

I have weathered the water tower, photo below. Please tell me what you think, criticism is fine (certainly not enough on these pages IMO I won't be offended) It is through honest observation and comment that we can all make better models, thanks.

 

Driver John Howarth has just left his loco, 'Dutch' liveried 37133 on the back road at Shirebrook depot after a Sunday shift on an engineers' train.

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Duncan,

 

The only problem I can think of is being able to describe how bloody smart that looks, seriously, that is very very nice indeed.

 

Excellent modelling

 

Cheers

 

Simon

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Hi Simon,

Good to hear from you. I might get over to Blackburn to see  Dallam Sidings... and I'm really looking forward to being at Wigan next year!

Cheers

Duncan

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Hi Duncan,

Looks great, so realistic. You say there is not enough criticism on this thread, but it’s difficult to criticise something that is very good, and far more than many of us are likely to achieve!

 

I am looking forward to starting a thread on my new 2mm Finescale layout, just waiting for Cav’s 3D printed root grills to turn up before I take a hacksaw to my 56 model! I assure you tho, all constructive criticism will be welcome!!

 

Rich

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31 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

Hi Duncan,

Looks great, so realistic. You say there is not enough criticism on this thread, but it’s difficult to criticise something that is very good, and far more than many of us are likely to achieve!

 

I am looking forward to starting a thread on my new 2mm Finescale layout, just waiting for Cav’s 3D printed root grills to turn up before I take a hacksaw to my 56 model! I assure you tho, all constructive criticism will be welcome!!

 

Rich

Thanks Rich. I certainly criticise my own work., and I am very happy to understand how others have solved a problem. I do think some times while reading other threads there appear to be lots of 'likes' but if you look a little closer , well I despair, things are not good, like buildings not sunk in to the landscape but placed on to it with a gap underneath, there should be another button along the lines of, 'You need to revisit this!' or more vaguely ' constructive criticism'. I also am not enthusiastic of layouts where items are removed from boxes and set out to form a scene, obviously if you have a large budget you can purchase many items but I believe you just have a big trainset. Modelling is, I believe, creating something from basics. Yes I use rtr stock but it is modified to varying degrees and kits are used where I can. Buildings are modified kits or scratchbuilt. I guess I enjoy most, making something on a cold, wet winter's Sunday afternoon, it may be a single wagon , a garden shed or hand built turnout.

Off my soap box, ... due to home improvement projects the layout will be stored until we take it out to the Leeds Show at the end of October, thereafter there will be a running day at our home address sometime in late November or early December. I will PM you with details when we settle on a date.

I too am really looking forward to your 2mm finescale project! i will be doing my small Hobb's bridge layout to Cavs track standards- I have some finetrax turnouts but the disadvantage with these is the set geometry, if I'm going to go to all that trouble I want the flowing curves to continue through the turnouts, any way hopefully we can compare notes.

Cheers

Duncan

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Hi Duncan,

 

I am also finding it very hard to find anything I could add. I really appreciate all the time you've taken to send me a few tips. In an attempt to find something I can add I compared your pictures above to some 'real' pictures. (A tip I learnt from your help with one of my 86s). The bits I noticed:

 

The brick work at the base of the tower looks too clean. The bricks would probably be slightly weathered and the grouting would probably have collected darker dirt and a few weeds. 

 

The hard standing in the foreground looks brilliant with the cracks and the weathering, but if it's old enough to crack I would be amazed to see not a single little weed, they seem to get everywhere. 

 

The water tower is an absolutely brilliant model. But it almost looks too perfect if that makes any sense. A light weathering and some bubbled paintwork would probably have creeped in over time. Possibly some light rust? I've noticed this kind of bubbling and ageing of paintwork done very well on airfix tanks, I am afraid I can't offer any first hand advice, just thing's I've noticed in 'how to' videos. 

 

I hope you realize I am only trying to help and your modeling skills are far far ahead of mine. I feel a bit out of place offering advice and I am just trying to help return a few favours for all the helpful comments you've given me. I agree that at time's some models (mine included) are not up to the amazing standards you've set here. But you must remember for some of us even getting a 'train set' to run is a big achievement. The main thing should always be enjoyment and trying to improve :).  Taking of enjoyment I've been patiently waiting for a few pictures of the A4 Pacific from one of your recent running day's. 

 

All the best

Dave

Edited by DavidMcKenzie
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1 hour ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

Hi Duncan,

 

I am also finding it very hard to find anything I could add. I really appreciate all the time you've taken to send me a few tips. In an attempt to find something I can add I compared your pictures above to some 'real' pictures. (A tip I learnt from your help with one of my 86s). The bits I noticed:

 

The brick work at the base of the tower looks too clean. The bricks would probably be slightly weathered and the grouting would probably have collected darker dirt and a few weeds. 

 

The hard standing in the foreground looks brilliant with the cracks and the weathering, but if it's old enough to crack I would be amazed to see not a single little weed, they seem to get everywhere. 

 

The water tower is an absolutely brilliant model. But it almost looks too perfect if that makes any sense. A light weathering and some bubbled paintwork would probably have creeped in over time. Possibly some light rust? I've noticed this kind of bubbling and ageing of paintwork done very well on airfix tanks, I am afraid I can't offer any first hand advice, just thing's I've noticed in 'how to' videos. 

 

I hope you realize I am only trying to help and your modeling skills are far far ahead of mine. I feel a bit out of place offering advice and I am just trying to help return a few favours for all the helpful comments you've given me. I agree that at time's some models (mine included) are not up to the amazing standards you've set here. But you must remember for some of us even getting a 'train set' to run is a big achievement. The main thing should always be enjoyment and trying to improve https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png.  Taking of enjoyment I've been patiently waiting for a few pictures of the A4 Pacific from one of your recent running day's. 

 

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave, I really appreciate your views, thank you. The last item first, I'm waiting too for one of my pals to send me the photos of the A4 and Pullmans, I'll have to give him a nudge!

In the photo with the 37 and Driver John Howarth I have weathered the tower, do you think it needs more? Certainly around the base. I also intend to add some bits'n bobs around the base and a member of staff having a crafty smoke! There are several areas around the depot area where we need to add weeds, but remember we have set the model in winter so there would be less than in summer and they will need to be 'dead'! I fully agree with you comments on the brick work. I will do something before the tower is permanently set into the baseboard, want to add some gloss varnish to represent 'wet' possibly a slight leak or overflow from the tank or supply pipework.

Cheers

Duncan

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2 hours ago, Duncan. said:

Hi Dave, I really appreciate your views, thank you. The last item first, I'm waiting too for one of my pals to send me the photos of the A4 and Pullmans, I'll have to give him a nudge!

In the photo with the 37 and Driver John Howarth I have weathered the tower, do you think it needs more? Certainly around the base. I also intend to add some bits'n bobs around the base and a member of staff having a crafty smoke! There are several areas around the depot area where we need to add weeds, but remember we have set the model in winter so there would be less than in summer and they will need to be 'dead'! I fully agree with you comments on the brick work. I will do something before the tower is permanently set into the baseboard, want to add some gloss varnish to represent 'wet' possibly a slight leak or overflow from the tank or supply pipework.

Cheers

Duncan

For the tower, I am not even sure that I needs more weathering in the typical way of adding more colour or powders. Maybe more along the lines of the faiding that occurs over time from the sun. It was possibly you who taught me this, but when I've done a few locos I've been happy with the results of when I've added at some point in the process a very washed down coat of white (or thinners) to get rid of the idea that it's perfectly new paint model and just dirty. It could also be that the towers had a fresh coat of paint of course, but then maybe the weathings too much for a freshly painted tower. There are also different ways of making the paint look slightly chipped in places. I couldn't find a picture of the original tower at the time you are modeling for a reference.

 

Another idea (non of which you need to do of course) is the slight watermarks and water staining that comes from lot's of winters in the rain and the water running down the metal structure. The example in this article is a model plane is too much and only to try to explain the rough idea (I am not a fan of things weathered to an inch of their lives) but if you could imagine something along the lines of how they have done the little the fluid streamlines coming from the motor and flip them through 90 deg so they are gravity acting on slightly grubby water rather than fluid being pulled along by the high airspeeds. 

http://www.finescale.com/how-to/articles/2012/04/easy-aircraft-weathering

 

I agree about the weeds needing to be suitable for the winter time, but a lot of weeds still exist. I was doing a bit of research into platforms today and found this example (from November 1999) there are still little bits of weed growing in the pavement joins. 

87019

 

Another example from today's research into class 90s showed an example of how the weeds in foreground are not green, but mostly light yellow/brown. 

 

Freightliner & P&O At Beck Foot.

 

Anyway putting my suggestions aside, it's a brilliant bit of modeling you've done there and very motivating to see what is possible. I can only hope to reach the same level of skill over time. 

 

All the best

Dave. 

Edited by DavidMcKenzie
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Thanks Dave, I will look into the article in the link you attached. I have photos of the real tower at Shirebrook, it is very 'distressed' but I thought in model form it would look too weathered. What do you think?

Cheers

Duncan

9073865495_41a1061d64_o.jpg

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Hi Duncan your Water Tower looks fantastic and so realistic. I wish I had your patience and skill. 

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52 minutes ago, Duncan. said:

Thanks Dave, I will look into the article in the link you attached. I have photos of the real tower at Shirebrook, it is very 'distressed' but I thought in model form it would look too weathered. What do you think?

Cheers

Duncan

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/9073865495_41a1061d64_o.jpg.42576b2fd99a5b54eb1084545c0113a3.jpg

 

Ah yeah, I see what you mean there Duncan. If you did an exact replica of that paintwork it would look unrealistic wouldn't it.

 

Maybe you could use some artistic license to distress the paint work just a little and in a way that might be more believable on the layout. One hint you could take from the real thing is to not distress every area exactly the same amount. It's interesting how some area's are a lot more distressed than other's. 

 

A side thought looking at the photo. I am glad I am not trying to model light snow fall. Even if you were to scatter snow to look exactly as in the picture above it would look unrealistic wouldn't it. 

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10 hours ago, Duncan. said:

Thanks Rich. I certainly criticise my own work., and I am very happy to understand how others have solved a problem. I do think some times while reading other threads there appear to be lots of 'likes' but if you look a little closer , well I despair, things are not good, like buildings not sunk in to the landscape but placed on to it with a gap underneath, there should be another button along the lines of, 'You need to revisit this!' or more vaguely ' constructive criticism'. I also am not enthusiastic of layouts where items are removed from boxes and set out to form a scene, obviously if you have a large budget you can purchase many items but I believe you just have a big trainset. Modelling is, I believe, creating something from basics. Yes I use rtr stock but it is modified to varying degrees and kits are used where I can. Buildings are modified kits or scratchbuilt. I guess I enjoy most, making something on a cold, wet winter's Sunday afternoon, it may be a single wagon , a garden shed or hand built turnout.

Off my soap box, ... due to home improvement projects the layout will be stored until we take it out to the Leeds Show at the end of October, thereafter there will be a running day at our home address sometime in late November or early December. I will PM you with details when we settle on a date.

I too am really looking forward to your 2mm finescale project! i will be doing my small Hobb's bridge layout to Cavs track standards- I have some finetrax turnouts but the disadvantage with these is the set geometry, if I'm going to go to all that trouble I want the flowing curves to continue through the turnouts, any way hopefully we can compare notes.

Cheers

Duncan

 

Hi Duncan,

Yes agree with most of your comments. I think that's one of the good things about this hobby tho, not matter how much skill, expertise, knowledge, time, money or space you have, there is always something you can do to get enjoyment.  Whether it is RTR straight from the box or eight months building a single brass kit, I love that there are so many different aspects to railway modelling, and that through the likes of rmWeb, (not that I am religious but to use a church analogy) all the congregations are brought together in one place, and everyone is willing to share views, from a basic I like or dislike, through to the more technical comments and constructive criticism.

 

I think one of things with something like Shirebrook is that you have done a superb job, that we tend to look at photographs and go wow.  To be critical, there is a need to look beyond the image and examine the different areas, only then do you start to see the things like Dave has thrown up, all of which are (I think) constructive views, but ones I'll admit I hadn't noticed!  The camera tends see more and to be more critical than the human Mk1 eyeball, but I also think you see more when you see a layout face-to-face.  I know I can be quite critical of my own work, where others say "oh you'd never notice that" which gets a quick "but I would!" response!

 

I am not around the first weekend in December, but hopefully I'll be able to get over and see you, I look forward to the invite.  Things are moving forward with the layout, the DMU has been rewheeled and work has started on the 56, as well as constructing the first 2FS pointwork.  Once I have progressed on a bit, I'll put the thread up, and constructive criticism will defiantly be welcome ;) 

 

Rich

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Shirebrook-A Steamy Interlude.

Hi Everyone,

As promised above, our last running day was a little different from normal. Out of the ordinary and fun formations were encouraged. So here are some photos featuring an A4, Jubilee and ex LMS 3F. I was impressed when the 3F handled a full 36 wagon rake of HAA wagons without slipping. The Pullmans did look well but I would encourage the owers of the kettles to tone them down a little perhaps just a coat of Matt varnish would help.

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Hi Duncan I've just read the article about your layout in the latest Model Rail magazine. It looks absolutely fantastic in the photos. It is a real credit to your family. 

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15 minutes ago, EWS FAN said:

Hi Duncan I've just read the article about your layout in the latest Model Rail magazine. It looks absolutely fantastic in the photos. It is a real credit to your family. 

The photos were taken last December, the layout has moved on a bit since then, hopefully it looks even better! We are booked for the Leeds show this year and Scarborough and Wigan next year, possibly Train West in 2021. Who knows may even get an invite to Warley!

Cheers

Duncan

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Evening,

Here's a couple of more photos from our last running day. One of my solitary class 40 and an overhead shot which includes the full length of the new radio tower, oh that A4 crept into that shot too!

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Lovely faded blue on the 40, do you mind me asking how you achieved it?  Its not something I know how to do.

 

 

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1 hour ago, millerhillboy said:

Lovely faded blue on the 40, do you mind me asking how you achieved it?  Its not something I know how to do.

 

 

Morning,

Could be a bit of an epic....

Basics. It is all air brushed, I use Humbrol and Precision enamel paint. Colours, Brake Dust, Track Colour Oil Leakings, from Precision, Black, but never neat, and various browns and greys. In addition for a BR Blue loco I will use a pale blue such as Provincial Light Blue or Barclays Blue.

For all my weathering there are varying amounts of pre-fading. The pale blue is used to pre-fade. After the body and bogie frames have been washed I use a very thinned blue to pre-fade. Thinned about 75% thinners 25% paint, lower air pressure than normal. (Some modellers use a thinned white, but I find that too harsh) The class 40 was heavily pre-faded as I wanted the effect you see now. The fading is not uniform, working from photographs you will see that the fading is deepest along the cantrail area. Dirt, grime, brake dust are then sprayed over all thinned. Sometimes I add thinned varnish to a colour to further thin it, in addition to the thinners...

If you look at some of the weathered locos on other threads it will become obvious when the model has not been prefaded at all, the weathering tends to look very dark and the whole loco looks dark. If you very carefully look at my locos on my Flickr page (Link in my signature) you will see that my locos are all prefaded to one degree or another. Another heavily prefaded loco is 20004. Photo below shows it paired with a less faded but still weathered class 20.  For a Railfreight Grey loco I would use a thinned 'Silver Grey' or even 'Rail Grey'. I hope to do a full article in the NGS Journal in the future....

Cheers

Duncan

40876063163_97077bbc72_o.jpg

Edited by Duncan.
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Thanks Duncan

 It certainly catches my eye, one thing I remember clearly is that there was no such thing as BR blue, not consistently anyway. All sorts of variations of blue were on show to my eye anyway, whether it be different overhauling works or different exposures to light, cleaning chemicals etc.

 So to me you are spot on with your variation in blue tone. It looks very 'right' to me.

 

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