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Running to Timetable- Now with Videos!!! - Stranraer ‘themed’ loft layout 1959-64


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Hello,

 

I have been incredibly busy and have been occupied by moving house, cycling, working and family!

 

We will be insulating and bricking up the front of the garage next year :)

 

That will give a 5m by 2m space.

 

I have been thinking hard about what kind of layout I want to build and have considered:

 

1) lakeside branch

 

2) ballachurlish

 

3) Fort William

 

However as I have lots of midland region stock... but not so many locos as I had to sell some off :(

 

I have found Stranraer as a good possible location.

 

It has two terminus stations to model in the sixties and the locos appear to be 5MT’s and Black Fives with the occasional tank thrown in.

 

I will begin layout planning soon but does anyone have any ideas for what to model in this space?

 

Kind regards

 

Time frame NOW EDITED 1959-1964... 

Edited by danstercivicman
Timeframe to fit in more variety!
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It has two terminus stations to model in the sixties and the locos appear to be 5MT’s and Black Fives with the occasional tank thrown in.

 

About the locos to be seen there, here's a list from a visit to Stranraer shed on July 28, 1964 (close to your timeframe):

 

44999, 45118, 45360, 45384, 45432, 45460, 45629, 73101, 76112, 78016, 78026, 80119, D2575

 

The Standard 5s weren't common in Stranraer, though there was one there that day, and there's some discussion about them on the Port Road in this topic:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137009-port-road-dumfries-to-stranraer-line-circ-1960-65/?p=3281349

 

KIngmoor Clans were common in Stranraer until the closing of the Port Road, often on the down "Paddy" one night, and the up train the next night. Jubilees were also used (and 45629 was there on that day in 1964), till the last of the Kingmoor ones were withdrawn. After the Port Road was closed, the "Paddy" was diverted by Mauchline, Ayr and Girvan. It was powered by a Kingmoor Britannia, with a Stanier 5 as pilot from Ayr to Stranraer and return until diesels took over in October 1966.

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Great list :)

 

A big help. I’m thinking five coach mk1’s sets and four coach semi fasts?

 

I’m wondering if the harbour station mainly serves the boat trains and the town station was for the locals?

 

It also looks from the NLS plans that the tracks extended much further down the pier behind the station. Anyone know what they were used for?

 

My layout is set in BR times so I was wondering if they would have been redundant then due to the removal of coal fired ships?

 

Where did the boat trains run to/originate from?

 

Sadly I sold most of my locos so I have:

 

Ivatt 4MT

BR STD 4 2-6-4t

Class 128 DPU

Horwich Crab 42789

 

I will need to save for:

 

5MT Black Five

5MT

4MT 2-6-0

Jubilee

 

Seems like it was mainly locos and coaches and no DMU’s

 

Looking at the track plans the Harbour Ststion is almost a separate model to the goods yard. That’s good because modular layouts mean construction costs can be spread :)

 

It’s still not as picturesque as Fort William

Edited by danstercivicman
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The dmus were quite specific , being Swindon 126 3 car sets . They were used on the Glasgow-Ayr-Girvan-Stranraer route . I think freight wise I can remember a class 20 on the pick up freight. That was in 1973 though , so a bit out of period .

 

Standard fare would have been Black 5s , Jubilees, Crabs and Fowler 2Ps and Compounds .

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Cheers they are indeed very specific there is a cracking bit of footage on the NLS archive!

 

https://movingimage.nls.uk/film/3696&rating=5

 

I also may consider building the layout in the loft. There is 6m by 2m fully boarded space which at layout height is pretty uninterrupted. The downside is that it is a loft so stuffy and dry in the summer and cold and dry in the winter...but it’s dry!

 

It would allow a 5m Stranraer harbour on one side then a 180 degrees curve to Stranraer goods, shed and town branch to be recreated in 3m with a 2m fiddleyard....

 

I think looking at the NLS maps...

 

Single line to the Harbour station. Throat is mainly Y points splitting to three the four tracks.. there is a bay platform, an overlong footbridge and the tracks run on behinf the station to a pier (could be changed to add some dock cranes).

 

Running back the single line joins above the goods yard then into a three track section reducing to a single line. The town station connects at the base with the space between being filled by a goods yard and loco shed..

 

Looks like carriage sidings at the exit of both stations....

Edited by danstercivicman
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Boats sailing from Stranraer would either be going to Larne or Belfast (depending on the era/company). They now sail to Cairnryan as it makes the crossing time shorter.

 

I cam recall a car loading /unloading dock at the end of the station quay from trips to the mainland as a child. I presume it was either for the new vehicles going to Northern Ireland or motorail services.

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Much later than your time frame,I travelled to Stranraer in '81. Some of the infrastructure wouuld have changed, but some was certainly original.

 

post-89-0-75554900-1545925313_thumb.jpg

 

Stranraer Harbour 'box

 

post-89-0-05430100-1545925380_thumb.jpg

 

post-89-0-14826500-1545925440_thumb.jpg

 

post-89-0-61818800-1545925501_thumb.jpg

 

Interior shots of the 'box. Someone very kindly lightened the track diagram one in the Scottish Region in the 80's thread. I will try and find it and post a link

 

post-89-0-55985400-1545925570_thumb.jpg

 

post-89-0-38391600-1545925629_thumb.jpg

 

post-89-0-39721500-1545925687_thumb.jpg

 

Stranaer Harbour general views

 

post-89-0-77897300-1545925757_thumb.jpg

 

Remains of Stranraer Loco Depot

 

post-89-0-25677000-1545925817_thumb.jpg

 

Stranraer Harbour Station

 

post-89-0-51907400-1545925887_thumb.jpg

 

post-89-0-69882700-1545925910_thumb.jpg

 

And finally, a couple of views of Stranraer Town Yard

 

That has exhausted the phot catalogue, I am afraid. I hope that it is of some help.

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

 

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Wow! Great pictures :)

 

Thanks for posting.

 

The harbour seems like a good place to start..

 

The main boards will be subdivided for assembly etc

 

Board 1 (5m by 60cm) harbour station, dock cranes and short spur to carriage/goods area..

 

Board 2 (1.8m by 60cm) degree hidden section curving lines to

 

Board 3 (3m by 1m) line from harbour in background, small shed and goods yard in foreground leading to-

 

Fiddle board (2m by 60cm) cassette fiddleyard

 

Board 1, 2 and the fiddleyard will be built first as the goods yard and shed will be long term.

 

If I am back in time tonight I may start doing some planning on anyrail

 

What thoughts do you have on the station throat at the harbour?

 

Turnout wise I have some ideas...

 

I’m also thinking the loco would back the carriages into the long stabling sidings? Or a pilot could pull them back and then shunt them into the centre road?

 

Appears that the port was quite busy:

 

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1970/jan/29/euston-stranraer-boat-train

 

My scheme would envisage that the Beeching cuts never occurred so the Dumfries line was not closed

Edited by danstercivicman
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The dmus were quite specific , being Swindon 126 3 car sets . They were used on the Glasgow-Ayr-Girvan-Stranraer route . I think freight wise I can remember a class 20 on the pick up freight. That was in 1973 though , so a bit out of period .

Standard fare would have been Black 5s , Jubilees, Crabs and Fowler 2Ps and Compounds .

Depends how fluid the OP's timescale is. He said "1965" in the first post. The last Stranraer Compound (and the last Compound in Scotland) was withdrawn in 1958, and the last Stranraer 2P was withdrawn in 1962. And, if you're being strict about dates, you couldn't mix Compounds with Class 126s (introduced in 1959).

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I’m thinking five coach mk1’s sets and four coach semi fasts?

 

How about 16 coaches, including sleepers? There's a description of a "Northern Irishman" of that size from Carlisle to Stranraer Harbour in 1961, hauled by a Clan, with a Stanier 5 piloting from Dumfries. Clans also worked 10 coach trains unassisted over the Port Road.

 

Where did the boat trains run to/originate from?

The boat train routes were Glasgow-Stranraer and Euston-Stranraer.

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16 coaches.... I’ll manage 6 max! The loft isn’t big enough to have sixteen (nor will any rtr handle 16...).

 

I will have to have some compression in the layout :)

 

Cheers for confirming the destination.

 

I take it mainly BR Mk.1 by 1965?

 

Good to know that there were two big trains coming in and out.

 

I think until the goods yard board is finnished I may embellish the goods side of the docks just to give it some reason to exist :)

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Boats sailing from Stranraer would either be going to Larne or Belfast (depending on the era/company). They now sail to Cairnryan as it makes the crossing time shorter.

 

I cam recall a car loading /unloading dock at the end of the station quay from trips to the mainland as a child. I presume it was either for the new vehicles going to Northern Ireland or motorail services.

Thank you. That’s not a bad idea for some freight/motorsil workings :)

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Depends how fluid the OP's timescale is. He said "1965" in the first post. The last Stranraer Compound (and the last Compound in Scotland) was withdrawn in 1958, and the last Stranraer 2P was withdrawn in 1962. And, if you're being strict about dates, you couldn't mix Compounds with Class 126s (introduced in 1959).

Thanks PH. All the right locos but not necessarily in the right order!

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Looks like a very feasible project of a very interesting prototype; I shall follow it with interest.  I passed through here, actually stayed in a guest house overnight, from Larne in 1961 on a family holiday when I was 9 years old, and have only vague memories of the place from a railway perspective (we were car bourne).  But I do remember that the railway was compressed between the hillside/town and the waterfront as shown in the photos in a very model railway baseboard type of situation, though.  

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Yes indeed it’s got a great deal of potential. The Harbour station is essentially a stand slone unit. The goods yard, shed and town station make a completely seperate layout.

 

What’s proving difficult is working out how to combine both

Edited by danstercivicman
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So I have been planning the throat.

 

Sorry it’s old skool. My daughter had commandeered the living room to watch disney and the roving 1yr old destructor baby is asleep!

 

I am looking at the throat and wondering if I have one of those dreaded s-bends?

 

I’m using large radius Peco and Peco large Y to minimise it but it’s as close as I can get to the prototye...

 

Do those older and wiser (in the hobby) think that this throat will work?

 

I’m tempted to add in some straight track between the cross over on the right putting that on another board and shifting it all right.

 

That would mean 2x 2.4m boards with the station board being board 2

post-22023-0-28760300-1546083669_thumb.jpeg

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I now have a plan!

 

Thanks to an awesome Youtube I found where someone is learning the route on a train simulator, that really helped with planning!

 

It uses a way of avoiding reverse curves into the station although one of the crossovers may be redundant. I guess they have added it for release of stock in the centre roads to the sidings.

 

The shed/goods yard area is still to be finalised. I may do away with it and model scenery. It feels abit model railway..

 

Suggestions and kind comments welcome :)

Hoperaer Loft Layout.pdf

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Reverse curves are not the end of civilisation as we know it; depends where they are and how they are laid.  Buffer locking problems are possible if you are going to be propelling trains (and that includes multiple units with the power bogie at the back) over them, such problems worsened by imperfect laying and alignment and the use of scale couplings with rigid buffers.  The crux of the issue is that even large radius Peco are very tight in scaled up prototypical terms, but I would have thought that you will get away with it so long as they are well laid and aligned on a level surface, especially if you are using tension lock couplers.

 

Not so sure about doing away with roads because they look 'a bit model railway'; that seems counter-intuitive and might lead to operational problems.  If it was there on the prototype, it was there for a reason, as the Glasgow and South Western Railway did not lay sidings and put turnouts in for fun any more than any other railway did, especially on a confined site like Stranraer Harbour.  I'd advise modelling as much of the prototypical layout as you can and operating it as prototypically as you can to achieve the full potential of your model.

 

How are you going to deal with the presence of ships?  Ships, even small ones like these ferries, are big in 4mm, and at Stranraer they can hardly be ignored unless the viewing side is from the east looking west.

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Yup, I’m happy the harbour has all the main parts except there was an extra set of sidings off the sidings toward the exit curve.

 

Sorry by model railway I mean that my attempt at the junction is a bit compressed. However I think the main elements are there :)

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.030147450115667&lat=54.9020&lon=-5.0151&layers=170&b=1

 

The junction is slightly modified although the NLS maps show the double slip. The line curving towards the centre would be to Stranraer Town.

 

The line top coming back to the fiddle yard was carriage sidings.

 

 

Boat wise I have no plans to build the ferry! Someone on RMWEB has previously its huge!

 

The dockside is where you will view from. Eventually a Langley models ship and a scale scene ship might get modded up but it appears the lock was shallow.

 

I have sent a picture of a ship moored the far side of the station and also have considered expanding the dock yard scene...

 

Hope that helps

 

 

Reverse curves are not the end of civilisation as we know it; depends where they are and how they are laid. Buffer locking problems are possible if you are going to be propelling trains (and that includes multiple units with the power bogie at the back) over them, such problems worsened by imperfect laying and alignment and the use of scale couplings with rigid buffers. The crux of the issue is that even large radius Peco are very tight in scaled up prototypical terms, but I would have thought that you will get away with it so long as they are well laid and aligned on a level surface, especially if you are using tension lock couplers.

 

Not so sure about doing away with roads because they look 'a bit model railway'; that seems counter-intuitive and might lead to operational problems. If it was there on the prototype, it was there for a reason, as the Glasgow and South Western Railway did not lay sidings and put turnouts in for fun any more than any other railway did, especially on a confined site like Stranraer Harbour. I'd advise modelling as much of the prototypical layout as you can and operating it as prototypically as you can to achieve the full potential of your model.

 

How are you going to deal with the presence of ships? Ships, even small ones like these ferries, are big in 4mm, and at Stranraer they can hardly be ignored unless the viewing side is from the east looking west.

Edited by danstercivicman
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  • danstercivicman changed the title to Running to Timetable- Now with Videos!!! - Stranraer ‘themed’ loft layout 1959-64

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