Jump to content

Running to Timetable- Now with Videos!!! - Stranraer ‘themed’ loft layout 1959-64


Recommended Posts

Would you happen to have an idea on timetables?

 

 

Here's one from 1948 :

 

http://timetableworld.com/book_viewer.php?id=4&section_id=1132

 

I may also be able to provide one from 1964, but no promises. 

 

(Edit - that link points to table 110, and I can't get it to point to the correct one. If you follow the link, click "Table 24" in the list on the left-hand side of the screen. That should get you Dumfries-Stranraer. "Table 56" includes Glasgow-Stranraer, amongst several other routes.)

Edited by pH
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a couple of good books now on the Dumfries-Stranraer "Port Road" which will give interesting public and working timetable insights, but Ayr-Stranraer remains more elusive.  Recommend both Robotham's "Branches and Byways" https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=9780860935759&n=100121503 and Andrew Swan's "The Port Road" http://lightmoor.co.uk/books/the-port-road/l8214 albeit the latter's more focussed on the line to Dumfries.

 

This excellent gallery is your best bet online for photographs: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/albums/72157689678658815. I can't recall (and haven't checked tonight) to see if he's scanned any relevant timetables - I know there are some for some lines on Ernie's website.

 

A good subject you've chosen, at the end of two quite distinct, characterful railways :)

Edited by Jamie
Link to post
Share on other sites

I may also be able to provide one from 1964, but no promises. 

 

Here's that 1964 timetable for Dumfries-Stranraer, scanned with permission:

 

post-1771-0-03100400-1546654057.jpg

Edited by pH
Link to post
Share on other sites

Definately look like great books!

 

 

I had a good look through the gallery, some great shots and some cracking locos :)

 

Yeah, it’s been done before but I do like Stranraer. It feels Manageable and satisfies my love of ex LMS and BR standard locos and stock :)

 

 

There's a couple of good books now on the Dumfries-Stranraer "Port Road" which will give interesting public and working timetable insights, but Ayr-Stranraer remains more elusive. Recommend both Robotham's "Branches and Byways" https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=9780860935759&n=100121503 and Andrew Swan's "The Port Road" http://lightmoor.co.uk/books/the-port-road/l8214 albeit the latter's more focussed on the line to Dumfries.

 

This excellent gallery is your best bet online for photographs: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/albums/72157689678658815. I can't recall (and haven't checked tonight) to see if he's scanned any relevant timetables - I know there are some for some lines on Ernie's website.

 

A good subject you've chosen, at the end of two quite distinct, characterful railways :)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve found some good information on this site:

 

http://www.ribblevalleyrail.co.uk/Named%20Trains%20LMR%201958.htm

 

It appears the Northern Irishman featured first and second class sleeping accommodation and a restaurant car between London and Crewe (that’s good so I don’t need a buffet car).

 

From what I can see the sleeper service departed London Euston at 7:30 pm and arrived 5:23am the next day at Stranraer.

 

The UP service departed at 10:00 pm and arrived sometime around 8 am at Euston.

 

Looks like there were other long distance trains to Euston, most of which appear to originate/arrive using Stranraer town.

 

I’m busy gathering stock/track.

 

Probably the wrong way round as I still need to sort the electrics and then build the boards.

 

Electric wise we’ll have another light and plug socket installed in the loft.

 

Boardwise im thinking 9mm ply on 1.8x6.9 cm frames.

 

Would anyone have the make up of the Northern Irishman?

 

I note it ran between 1952 and 1966 so it’s in my period :)

Edited by danstercivicman
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

I don't think that you are reading the timetable right. Trains starting from Town would have been stoppers to Carlisle and Ayr (Glasgow perhaps). It gives a London departure time but that would be, I think, with a change at Carlisle. We need to see the notes to see what those letters mean between the hour/minute at Carlisle.

 

You are probably right that the Restaurant Car was detached at Crewe. But it could be that it remained in the train throughout the journey but was only open until Crewe. I used to have a book that gave details of the formations of all named trains. And there is a more recent series that also gives that info.

Edited by Joseph_Pestell
Link to post
Share on other sites

Understanding train timetables has never been my strength :)

 

Ok that makes sense for the stoppers. The Northern Irishman I guess ran straight through stopping where indicated.

 

I was thinking: (*= stock I don’t have)

 

The maximum train is 6/7 coaches planned

 

Northern Irishman

 

BG/XP Van

SLSTP 2nd Sleeper*

SLSTP 2nd Sleeper *

SLF 1st Sleeper*

TSO

CK

BSK

 

(That’s taking the Buffet being attached at Carlisle)

 

Then the Larne Boat Train?

 

MIGHT NOT HAVE UNDERSTOOD THIS ONE?

 

The 7:40 am Stranraer-Carlisle via Dumfries:

 

BSK

FK*

CK

SO

SK

BSK

 

The local

 

BCK

SK

BSK

 

The shuttle with the town station?

 

Suburban CK

Ex LMS 57ft brake

 

The holiday special:

 

Ex LMS P3 Brake

Ex LMS P3 CK

Ex LMS P3 CK

SO

TSO

Ex LMS P2 Brake

 

Do you think that would be a good representation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think that you are reading the timetable right. Trains starting from Town would have been stoppers to Carlisle and Ayr (Glasgow perhaps). It gives a London departure time but that would be, I think, with a change at Carlisle. We need to see the notes to see what those letters mean between the hour/minute at Carlisle.

 

You are probably right that the Restaurant Car was detached at Crewe. But it could be that it remained in the train throughout the journey but was only open until Crewe. I used to have a book that gave details of the formations of all named trains. And there is a more recent series that also gives that info.

Edited by danstercivicman
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Danster..

 

Table 8 is only part of the timetable - you also need Table 9 for the Glasgow service.  Yes the stopping trains to Girvan are included in Table 8 but the non stop 'boat trains' are not.  Table 9 takes up a lot of pages and I will see how easy it is to scan my Summer 1962 copy.

 

Ray

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

What I love about the Euston boat train is that it ran through Galloway overnight.  Hence I don't need to accommodate such a big train on the layout, which is always set in daylight!  EDIT: apart from the mid-day train obviously - which I completely forgot while writing this...

 

Local services along the Dumfries line, in the main were based around BTK-CK pairings either as a two coach set, sometimes as double pairs, or sometimes strengthened with an all third.  Depends how long a train you want to depict.  Again, easiest to pick a photo and just replicate it as best you can.

 

Suppose a lot of the Ayr/Glasgow passenger services would be Swindon Intercity DMUs by this point.  There are pics around of loco-hauled DMU substitutes which you could use in absence of an easy route to a Swindon unit, I think one's in Geo. C O'Hara's "BR Steam in Scotland", but I can't recall the formations off hand.

 

 

Would be interested to see the Stranraer-Ayr timetable Ray, if it does scan OK.

Edited by Jamie
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah ok, I did think it looked abit empty!

 

The pictures and footage shows a lot of stock and waiting locos so that would make sense

 

Hello Danster..

 

Table 8 is only part of the timetable - you also need Table 9 for the Glasgow service. Yes the stopping trains to Girvan are included in Table 8 but the non stop 'boat trains' are not. Table 9 takes up a lot of pages and I will see how easy it is to scan my Summer 1962 copy.

 

Ray

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to know :)

 

Yes the BTK CK combo is very useful, it allows portions to be broken up/split etc :)

 

 

I’d love a class 126 but only silver fox make it...

 

 

What I love about the Euston boat train is that it ran through Galloway overnight. Hence I don't need to accommodate such a big train on the layout, which is always set in daylight!

 

Local services along the Dumfries line, in the main were based around BTK-CK pairings either as a two coach set, sometimes as double pairs, or sometimes strengthened with an all third. Depends how long a train you want to depict. Again, easiest to pick a photo and just replicate it as best you can.

 

Suppose a lot of the Ayr/Glasgow passenger services would be Swindon Intercity DMUs by this point. There are pics around of loco-hauled DMU substitutes which you could use in absence of an easy route to a Swindon unit, I think one's in Geo. C O'Hara's "BR Steam in Scotland", but I can't recall the formations off hand.

 

 

Would be interested to see the Stranraer-Ayr timetable Ray, if it does scan OK.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I’d love a 126 as well. Don’t think we’ve got a lot of chance of that though until maybe there is some major brakethrough in production enabling low volumes ar reasonable costs . 3d printing perhaps?

 

Anyway there is a thread on here where Signaller69 has made a very nice 126 using old Trix coaches and a lot of excellent modelling. It might be of interest if you look him up.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello again

 

Ah ok, I did think it looked abit empty!

The pictures and footage shows a lot of stock and waiting locos so that would make sense
 

 

I have scanned Tables 8 and 9 from summer 1962.

 

They might be on Flickr but there seems to be an issue with Flickr - try downloading them.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/longsheds/shares/t530L9

 

Cheers

 

Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve seen some fabulous builds of Swindon DMU’s on this site. Sadly those skills are beyond me!

 

 

Yes I’d love a 126 as well. Don’t think we’ve got a lot of chance of that though until maybe there is some major brakethrough in production enabling low volumes ar reasonable costs . 3d printing perhaps?

 

Anyway there is a thread on here where Signaller69 has made a very nice 126 using old Trix coaches and a lot of excellent modelling. It might be of interest if you look him up.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Legend

 

A link for others to use

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112980-signaller69s-projects-more-van-variety/?p=2882730

 

Yes I’d love a 126 as well. Don’t think we’ve got a lot of chance of that though until maybe there is some major brakethrough in production enabling low volumes ar reasonable costs . 3d printing perhaps?

Anyway there is a thread on here where Signaller69 has made a very nice 126 using old Trix coaches and a lot of excellent modelling. It might be of interest if you look him up.

 

 I hope Signaller69 is reading - great work.  I wish I had the courage!

 

Ray

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah it’s good to see scratch builds.

 

I am an ok model plane and tank builder and could probably build something resembling a Class 126 but...

 

1) it would not be accurate

2) the frames window and doors would not be prototypical

3) even finding the donor kits (the old Hornby dmus) and three mark 1 coaches to butcher costs ££££

 

If I did build one I’d do the one with the coach like front...but then you need Pullman connectors etc...

 

There are some other threads where one modeller on RMWEB built three Swindon DMU’s to prototype...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81538-more-swindon-and-derby-dmus/

 

Truly amazing workmanship with every door and window height correct!

 

There is some amazing skill out there!

 

 

I think maybe a class 110 would sit ok on the layout until a class 126 arrives... but even finding one of them is serious money.

 

It does puzzle me that manufacturers rehash the same budget models with ever increasing prices. It’s not a way to attract people into the hobby... at the same time core staples like MK.1 coaches are hard to find...

 

Thanks Legend

 

A link for others to use

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112980-signaller69s-projects-more-van-variety/?p=2882730

 

 

I hope Signaller69 is reading - great work. I wish I had the courage!

 

Ray

Edited by danstercivicman
Link to post
Share on other sites

The 'flat ended' 126 was not a different type of set, as the sets were designed to be run as 6 car trains with the flat ends facing inward and the corridors connected on both 3 car sets, but still be able to be split to run as independent sets.  So a 3 car set has a flat ended 'intermediate' cab with the corridor connection at one end, and the Swindon 2-window cab common to the Class 120 sets at the other.  

 

There is a very good chance that someone will produce a 120 in the next few years, given it's high profile in wishlist polls, with will give you at least a start for a 126!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah ok, I had misunderstood and thought it was like the Class 128 type!

 

Yes it would be good for it to be made :)

 

I have rethought the coach formations slightly:

 

The Northern Irishman (UP)

 

BSK

CK

SK

BSK*

SLSTP*

SLF*

BG

 

Other Express (Down)

 

XP VAN

BSK

CK

SO

BSK

TSO

BCK (a through coach for somewhere)

 

I’m thinking of using the basic four coach semi fast combo as a building block. The sleepers or extra two coaches can be added and subtracted as required. When shunted off scene the semi fast will then become the stock for the stopping services. These rakes will be permanently close coupled with the two coach Sleeper set having standard nem at either end and a close coupler in between. The sleepers can be marshalled towards the London end or Stranraer end depending on destination.

 

The three coach ex LMS P3 stock will be the DMU replacement and that set can be bolstered to form a holiday train!

 

How does that look?

Edited by danstercivicman
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well here goes! It’s quite large tbh!

 

I’m using 5mm ply. My prev layouts have always been horrendously heavy so I am hoping to avoid that!

 

I will have to bring the throat further toreards the mainland but happy so far

Edited by danstercivicman
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • danstercivicman changed the title to Running to Timetable- Now with Videos!!! - Stranraer ‘themed’ loft layout 1959-64

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.