H41 Buffet

[Star-rider]

I’ve started a build of an H41 buffet coach, the sides have been provided by Worsley Works – although not in their standard 4mm range they have up-scaled them for me from their 3mm scale offering.

 

Could anyone point me in the direction of a book or image that would show me what the roof layout may have looked like?

 

I have the Russel Appendix 2 which seems to suggest a large or double roof tank at one end and a single at the other. Apart from this I’m a little unsure of what is going on up there. Any information about what is fitted to the chassis would also be helpful; the gas cylinders are nice and clear in the photos but is that four battery boxes down there?

 

There is no problem in principal with me shelling out for a reference book, but I’m not sure that I can afford to assemble a whole library before I find what I want!

 

Failing that I suppose it is a trip down to Steam at Swindon and jump really high with my camera in my hand…..

[K14]

13 hours ago, Star-rider said:

I’ve started a build of an H41 buffet coach, the sides have been provided by Worsley Works – although not in their standard 4mm range they have up-scaled them for me from their 3mm scale offering.

 

Could anyone point me in the direction of a book or image that would show me what the roof layout may have looked like?

 

I have the Russel Appendix 2 which seems to suggest a large or double roof tank at one end and a single at the other. Apart from this I’m a little unsure of what is going on up there. Any information about what is fitted to the chassis would also be helpful; the gas cylinders are nice and clear in the photos but is that four battery boxes down there?

 

There is no problem in principal with me shelling out for a reference book, but I’m not sure that I can afford to assemble a whole library before I find what I want!

 

Failing that I suppose it is a trip down to Steam at Swindon and jump really high with my camera in my hand…..

 

Not much on the roof as far as I can tell...

 

L to R: Double water tank (or one with two fillers), Cast-iron sign saying "Water For Drinking Purposes Only" (red with white letters), Handrail, Chimney for Still's Boiler, Handrail, two 'shell' vents, Cast-Iron sign, single tank/filler.

 

I can't tell if the handrails are on the centreline or if they're offset. I'm leaning towards them being central - if they're offset, there will be four of them.

The Ash (shell) ventilators are definitely part way down the curve, but exactly how far isn't clear. They're positioned over the kitchenette.

 

Downstairs, there are indeed four battery boxes plus one regulator box plus three gas cylinders. Four sets of batteries might seem excessive, but these vehicles were fitted with two electric 'fridges (see fig 278).

 

The only other references I have to these are in 'Great Western Coaches from 1890' by Michael Harris, but to be honest I'd stick with Russell as the photos are larger.

 

Pete S.

[Star-rider]

Thanks very much for that. Most is pretty much as I would have guessed, but it is good to have some confirmation.

 

I hadn't realised what those little signs were, the text may be a bit too much of a challemge for me!

 

Now I have to see what my wife feels about running up seven pairs of curtains.....

[Coach bogie]

Not much to show on the plan

 

Mike Wiltshire

[88D]

I can remember, as a very young boy brought up in valleys chapel tradition, seeing a man drink beer between Bristol and Taunton in the buffet. I went and told my mother as it was during the day!! You can see the impression it made on me as I remember it after 60 years or so, and I am building an H41– might put the evil drunkard inside as well.

[Star-rider]

9 hours ago, 88D said:

I can remember, as a very young boy brought up in valleys chapel tradition, seeing a man drink beer between Bristol and Taunton in the buffet. I went and told my mother as it was during the day!! You can see the impression it made on me as I remember it after 60 years or so, and I am building an H41– might put the evil drunkard inside as well.

 

Times change... I bet there is a good chance that he enjoyed a cigarette on his train journey too

 

Perhaps you should model a Senior Service using a bit of wire poking from the corner of his mouth before it gets air-brushed out of history by modern attitudes!

 

I'd love to see your H41 when it's done if you don't mind posting up a photo -it would be interesting to see our different interpretations of the information kindly provided by Coach Bogie and K14.

 

Pete.

[K14]

20 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

Not much to show on the plan

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Agreed - I think the roof was/is rather bare by usual standards. One thing does stand out though, & that's the curious Goods-type ventilator on the kitchenette end. Looking at some interior shots I wonder if the central ceiling feature is a double row of lights with a row of extractor fans up the middle?

If so that could explain the vent as a simple (primitive?) form of pressure extraction.

 

Good 3/4 view of the end here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/camperdown/6755013517/sizes/o/

 

Pete S.

[Coach bogie]

[88D]

4 hours ago, Star-rider said:

 

Times change... I bet there is a good chance that he enjoyed a cigarette on his train journey too

 

Perhaps you should model a Senior Service using a bit of wire poking from the corner of his mouth before it gets air-brushed out of history by modern attitudes!

 

I'd love to see your H41 when it's done if you don't mind posting up a photo -it would be interesting to see our different interpretations of the information kindly provided by Coach Bogie and K14.

 

Pete.

Cheers, Pete. May be a little while before it’s completed as I am on with building a new layout. But the H41 has always been intriguing to me since that day (while off on holiday to Blue Anchor b y the way) —-  but it will be finished!

[Star-rider]

And here’s how it went since my last post…

 

The body shell was sprayed all over in cream from a Railmatch aerosol and as I started to mask up for the application for the brown I realised I had somehow forgotten to prime the thing.

I was also uncertain about the final livery I wanted it to carry. The real thing carried “buffet” branding on a cream panel below the waistline and was also double lined in panels. All of this seemed a bit beyond my skill set, but I did contact Precision Labels to see if they may be able to assist as they offer cream coach roof destination boards with a choice of script. John Peck was very helpful, but said that he could only achieve what I wanted as a transfer and that I would have to paint in the cream panel and that he would need exact dimensions including the lining panels. He indicated a figure of around £10 for the order, which seemed quite reasonable even if it had come out at a few pounds more.

 

To go down this route was therefore going to need me to find time to take a trip to Steam at Swindon to have a good look at the real thing and also do a bit more masking up and re-painting. I’d got lucky when I had stripped off the masking tape so far, I had lost just a little cream paint around the waistline and most of it would be hidden by the lining transfer. In the end the H41 got shoved into the “too difficult to contemplate” box.

 

Nine months on and I find myself “furloughed” due to the Coronavirus situation with way more time on my hands than I am used to. Several projects have been pulled out of the “I’ll look at it when I get time” draws over the last two weeks, including the H41. It’s all very well having the time, but of course we are not allowed to travel and Steam is almost certainly closed anyway.

I decided to push on with the H41 with a simple livery; I needed a buffet coach to complete a train formation but there was no need for it to be specifically an H41 and indeed a coach that was (as I understood it) associated with the Bristolian service would probably not have been seen around the West Midlands which is where my layout is theoretically set. It was therefore inevitable that immediately after I had applied the roundel, single waist lining and a couple of coats of satin varnish that I would find this:  https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbh25.htm - a full liveried H41 on a service destined for Wolverhampton. Hey ho.

 

I now have something that whilst not a model decorated as the prototype is a least a “credible” buffet car for my train formation, it will do for now. Once I had got going again I have enjoyed the build.

 

The chassis is a standard Comet / Wizard etch and was primed (I remembered this time) and sprayed with a satin black aerosol paint – I find the likes of The Range or Wilkinson’s very useful for these basic paints. The chassis is mounted on RTR Bachmann Collet bogies which of course run perfectly and come with wheels and tension lock couplings. For the step boards I find the Comet method of bits of brass soldered to wires projecting from the solebar a bit too much of an ordeal and they strike me as being over delicate. My preferred method is to glue some 3.2mm plastic angle into the web of the solebar and this looks good enough to me from above. Gas cylinders were also Comet castings but the mounts needed a little cutting back to get them to sit side by side in the available space.

 

The body as per my OP was formed from sides produced for me by Worsley Works with Comet ends and end castings, everything married up quite nicely. As noted it then received a couple of coats of Railmatch cream and brown onto bare brass (don’t try this at home kids!) followed by two coats of satin varnish once the roundel (HMRS Pressfix) and lining (Fox) had been applied. As is my usual practice the droplights were pre-painted and put to one side until the rest of the body was sprayed up and then a little adhesive was spread with the end of a stick around the rear of the apertures, the droplights were then placed on my fingertip and offered up behind – for me, this gives a much neater result than trying to pick them out in their reddish brown colour and getting it all over the cream afterwards. If I have one criticism of the Worsley etch it is that the droplights seemed to be a bit on the small side and all too easily drifted through the window apertures when I was trying to fit them.

 

The roof is a bit of a best guess affair with gratitude to the assistance of others who have posted above. I’m still not sure what the “vent” should look like, at the moment a stud from a Peco stud and probe set has been glued in to represent something. As evidence suggests, there are two tanks at one end and a single at the other. I have not yet done anything about the little red warning signs on the roof. I may yet revisit this as they do add something to the uniqueness of this coach – I could possibly fashion something from some plastic Tee section that I have with a touch of red paint, but any sort of wording would be beyond me.

 

The interior is also a bit of a “representation” rather than an accurate model. It is almost impossible to discern anything through 4mm scale coach windows unless you go to the trouble of lighting, but I hope what I have built gives the casual viewer and impression of a buffet interior even if the milk churn and keg which masquerade as catering equipment would never have been installed by the Great Western. I’ve seen several photos of buffet car interiors including the ones kindly provided by Coach Bogie above, I suspect that some of the images of GWR buffets that I have found have been of different diagrams or maybe earlier decorative schemes, but on one I noted the chequered tiling to the floor, so I have thrown some in simply because it appealed to me. As I suspected I got no help from the wife with the curtains, so these were sketched up and knocked out of the printer.

 

Still to consider are the end / roof grab rails – I have built a dozen or more coaches now and none of them have any – I need to see if I can create a bit of a jig and turn a few sets out, but I am unsure of which type of wire to order or where from. I want something that will retain its shape one formed and the copper or brass stuff supplied with the Comet kits does not look up to the job Another thing lacking from the majority of my builds is the brown lining just below the cantrail. I have not found a way to achieve this satisfactorily with my limited talents. Best results so far have been by applying some 3mm vinyl pin-striping used for cars, cut down to roughly 1.5mm; it is a little too shiny but better than nothing being there, or any of the other methods I have previously tried. . I’ll have another think about the warning signs for the roof and maybe in the more distant future consider a repaint to the correct livery.

 

For now I’m relatively content with what I have done with this one and it will now go into service despite its shortcomings. There are four builds currently in progress so it is time to move on.

Once again, thanks to those who have contributed.

 

Pete.

[Devo63]

I would be interested in how you get on with the Buffet Car labeling. I am building two 1938 H55 cars, one with the red seating and chequered floor and the other with green and wood floor. These have been on the back burner of late mainly due to the lack of suitable lettering.

 

 

This is someones model. I think they have a thread on the forum relating to it but I can't remember who posted it and when.

 

[Star-rider]

You have got to love a 12 weel caoch haven't you

 

The top one should be an easier affair to replicate as it does not seem to have the lininng pannels, just the branding on a cream background. I still feel that a self adhesive vinyl label would be the easiest way to do this, but as I suggested in my post Precision Labels did hold out the offer of a custom transfer at a reasonable price.

 

The lower one is similar to the livery I was originally considering for my H41, although I belive that originally (and unusually) the GWR roundal was also set on a cream coloured disc. That, together with my concerns about the durability of my paint and not being able to check the preserved coach for the measurements for the lining pannels is why I have decided to walk away from mine for now and bring it in to service as it is.

 

Good luck with your H55s.

[Coach bogie]

The lower shot is the real thing. It is my shot of the preserved H41. As for 12 wheelers, there are a couple of options for the H15. Here is mine made from Bill Bedford sides purchased from 247 in the Gary days. Comet also produce the H15 with slightly different panel arrangements. They are both right, though the Bedford etch has an end door hinged the wrong way. Mine has a Comet roof, 247 bogies, plasticard underframe, truss rods from scrap brass and fittings with a roof vent from David Geen.

 

The 'BUFFET CAR' label for my H41 was made up on the PC and printed out on thin paper and stuck on.

 

Mike Wiltshire