OO gauge locomotive motors

[Biged4412]

Hi All

 

Can anyone help me I've just bought a locomotive and the motor is shot and has a alot of flat spots. 

 

Can anyone help me or suggest a supplier were I can find a new motor and gearbox for the locomotive as I would really like to get it up and running. 

 

Thank you in advance

 

Ed

[Phil Parker]

It would help if you told us what the loco is and who made it. With several thousand possibilities, it's a little difficult to suggest anything otherwise. 

 

Pictures would also be helpful.

[Biged4412]

It is a Nu-cast J26/27 and has an old triang motor in it and it was built by the previous owner 

 

Thanks 

 

Ed

[Phil Parker]

Almost certainly a Tri-ang X04 then. They should be pretty bomb-proof and can usually be repaired. Why do you think it is shot? 

[Biged4412]

It has a flat spot which in slow motion jolts the locomotive and when running smells of burning and has a loud high pitch wining 

[Phil Parker]

Hmmm. Could be motor or gears. Can you release the motor and turn it over under power? Does it still have the "flat spot"? Do the wheels rotate freely when the chassis is pushed along a track?

[Biged4412]

I've taken the gears off and tired the motor it does have the flat still by the sound I've checked all the gears for damage to teeth etc and there all in great condition it looks like the gears are fairly new to the locomotive. 

 

The wheels move freely the motor does run but can hear the wining when no gears attached and smells bad. 

[Biged4412]

I would also purchase more then one motor as I'm starting to scratch build locomotives so a supply of motors would be useful for that to

[Phil Parker]

If you are planning to scratchbuild locos, then an X04 is not the best place to start now - maybe it was in the 1960s but not now. Head over here: http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/gearboxmainpage.html and have a look at some options.

 

And no, none of those are replacements for a Tri-and motor. 

 

Winning and bad smell aren't uncommon traits with an X04. Have you lightly lubricated the bearings? What state are the carbon brushes in?

 

If I'm honest, it sounds a bit like you are trying to run before you can walk. Building a running chassis is the hard bit of loco building. Have you ever built a loco kit? Have you read any books on kitbuilding or scratchbuilding ? There's loads of information out there to help. Let's fix this one first though, you'll learn loads from doing it, I did years ago!

[Biged4412]

Hi Phil

 

Thank you for that I will have a look into that company. I have lubricated the bearings and they appear to be in a reasonable condition. 

 

I built a locomotive in O gauge a few years ago and it wasn't that bad of an attempt and constructed a sprung chassis and I do have a few books on scratch building locomotives. 

[Thane of Fife]

Good morning all

 

I have replaced all my XO4s and MW005s with Mashima motors. Sadly, they are becoming scarcer now as the factory has closed.

 

I use High Level gearboxes, and have found that a Mashima coupled to a High Level gearbox gives smoother performance than the few locos that I have left powered by Portescap RG4s.

 

My Nu Cast J27 had the cast chassis replaced by a Comet 4F chassis and is fitted with a Mashima 1420 and High Level Roadrunner plus 54:1 gearbox driving the rear axle.

 

Malcolm

 

 

[Biged4412]

Morning Malcolm

 

That is interesting I did use Mashimas when I did my o gauge so I'll have to see if I can track those down as I was a massive fan. 

 

I have been looking at chassis replacement along with adding brand new picks up all the way round including to the tender to increase electrical pick up. I have been looking at the Alan Gibson P3 chassis which I do belive should fit. 

 

But I will definitely try to track down a motor and gearbox

[30368]

Hi,

 

Lots of good advice has been offered, Alan Gibson P3 chassis would be fine. You could also look at Branchlines, they can supply gearboxes and Mashima motors and are very helpful.

http://branchlines.blogspot.com/2006/06/catalogue-pdf-files.html

 

Good luck and kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

 

[Biged4412]

Hi

 

It is a lot to take in but all really helpful and relevant I was looking at them and they seem. Pretty good. 

 

Thank you Richard I will have a look at those to. 

 

I was also contemplating adding a flywheel to aid as my layout is a shunting layout so I was told they might be useful to does anyone have any advice on whether it would be of us? 

 

Thanks in advance 

 

Ed

[30368]

I am sure there are many more modellers with more experience of flywheel fitted loco's but essentially a flywheel stores some of the motors energy. When you cut of power the flywheel releases this energy so the loco continues to move for a short distance - a nice gentle slow to a stop rather than a sudden stop. More like the prototype I guess. Is that useful in a shunting style operation?

 

I seem to remember shunting loco's came to a sudden stop so that the wagons being pushed continued on their way to the planned destination - inertia again!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[rogerzilla]

The flywheels in most motors won't significantly increase inertia, they just smooth out the pulses from the armature coils, especially useful with 3-pole or non-skew wound armatures.  To simulate the inertia of a train, you need a controller that can gradually change the track voltage (for DC) or tell the loco to graduallly change its speed (DCC).

[Biged4412]

Yeah that would be true Richard would that it would maybe be handy on the passanger loco I have, hmm yeah I'm not sure I'll have to consider that 

 

Thanks again 

 

Ed

[Biged4412]

Oh right I see what you mean Roger so I'd have to look at a reasonable controller which makes sense I do dc so I'll have to look into it

 

Thank you

[rogerzilla]

The Gaugemaster ones with simulation do this although, if you turn off the power, a train "coasts" to a halt a bit sooner than I'd like.  Starting is more realistic.  It's fun to play with.

[Biged4412]

I do have a gaugmaster one but it's a bog standard one so I doubt it will have that but I'll try the turn off thing 

[DCB]

On 30/05/2019 at 21:54, Biged4412 said:

It has a flat spot which in slow motion jolts the locomotive and when running smells of burning and has a loud high pitch wining 

Sounds like a faulty armature to me.  I would just fit a reconditioned X04.  With the heavy body an X04 should give plenty of power .  The MW005 5 pole is smoother but less powerful so less controllable so I prefer the 3 pole. Changing the motor can be less than straight forward. The gears don't always mesh correctly when you change motors.  Getting the worm off can be a challenge. The Romford gears have grub screws which just about guarantee the worm wobbles.    There is no real scope for a flywheel on an X04 but they do transform locos.  A 1960s K's 57XX with 5 pole motor and flywheel just glides over dead frog points rather batter than a 2018 Bachmann pannier.   A bevel drive gearbox and flywheel is the ideal as the wheels can push the motor but expensive.

I would avoid Mashima's as they are out of production and nothing li,e as easy to fins as X04s and the like.

[PatB]

Unfashionable though it is, there is something to be said for sticking with the X04. It's rugged, repairable, not terribly expensive, and the loco was built around it so it should be a more or less drop-in replacement, rather than needing the adaptation work, or even new chassis, that going to something more modern might require. Running can be good, given a suitable controller, especially under a heavy whitemetal body. They were good enough for Pendon after all. 

[Signaller69]

Something or nothing, but could the gear meshing be too tight? Particularly if the gearset has been replaced. This would hugely increase the strain on the motor leading to overheating and whining. Simple to check, the gear should have a little free play relative to the worm when the wheels are moved; if its a tight mesh, slacken the motor and insert a shim of paper or very thin plasticard under the motor, this might cure the issue. Worth a try before binning the motor at any rate.