Bachmann OO 4 CEP motor

[NIK]

Hi,

 

Does anyone know if the Bachmann OO 4 CEPs produced to date have a three pole skew wound motor or a five pole skew wound motor or something else?.

 

I find it the 4 CEP a little bit coggy when coupling/uncoupling at slow speed compared to the Bachmann Class 25 but maybe its the difference in the gear ratios, the flywheel arrangement or the DCC decoders I have fitted.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

Edited July 17, 2019 by NIK

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

It looks like the standard motor fitted to all Bachmann's OO D&E shaft drive models. I have yet to open one up - they all work well in both twin bogie drives and the MU arrangement driving to one bogie! - but believe this to be a five pole unit. (My own direct experience with the layout of this drive in MU's is solely the class 105, but from all I have seen so far, they are standard in all the BR pilot scheme era MU's. Naturally I would be happy to learn if this is not the case from those with the products to look at.)

 

Back to square one job I would suggest. How does it run on 'vanilla' DC, getting no help at all from BEMF compensation?

 

My data from six purchases: a quite recent s/h acquisition was a little 'lumpy' at dead slow, compared to the smoothness seen on all the previous examples. It had a plenitude of grease in the gear train, probably a little stiffer than when it went in at assembly. Unclipping the cosmetic bogie frame and removing the wheelsets allowed most to be removed, and a drop of light oil and some running procured the usual smooth performance at dead slow. (I expect a smooth 'creep' in and out of motion, no bumping or jerkiness apparent. Incidentally, because the trailers are so free running I have found it best to run them buffered up to prevent any free movement of the trailers versus power cars.)

 

I have used the Lenz Standard on all mine except the most recent. That has a Zimo 600 series, because that was what was spare in the decoder drawer at the time. Apart from limiting maximum speed, setting mid speed and putting larger values in CV's 3 and 4 no 'tuning' was required with either decoder. I will probably replace the Zimo with the marginally cheaper Lenz, simply to release the Zimo for an inferior mechanism that needs the help Zimo's excellent control adjustments provide. Only a quid, but money  saved and all that!

[RFS]

I have 6 of these 4-CEPs and 4 have Lenz Silver21+ decoders and two have Zimos. I would suggest turning BEMF off purely as a test and see if it then runs smoothly, in which case it's the decoder that's the problem. I had a lot of problems with jittery slow-speed running with locos fitted with TCS DP2X decoders: once replaced with Lenz they ran perfectly.

 

One issue with the 4-CPS is that they can lose a drive pin leaving the motor driving only one axle. Easy enough to check: see if you can turn either wheel manually - if you can that wheel has lost its pin. The first time this happened to me I found the pin had come out but lodged itself in the gunge inside so it was easy to fix and re-insert, with a spot of superglue added to ensure it didn't fall out again. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

31 minutes ago, RFS said:

...One issue with the 4-CEP is that they can lose a drive pin leaving the motor driving only one axle...

I presume the 'drive pin' referred to is one of the shafts on which an intermediate gear runs? I'll keep that in the memory bank, thanks for this information.

[RFS]

19 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I presume the 'drive pin' referred to is one of the shafts on which an intermediate gear runs? I'll keep that in the memory bank, thanks for this information.

 

Yes indeed - it's the drive shaft. The second time this occurred the unit was running in multiple with another, and even with only 3 driven axles between them there was enough oomph to not cause a problem.  Only discovered it when it came due for its wheel clean ….

[NIK]

5 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

It looks like the standard motor fitted to all Bachmann's OO D&E shaft drive models. I have yet to open one up - they all work well in both twin bogie drives and the MU arrangement driving to one bogie! - but believe this to be a five pole unit. (My own direct experience with the layout of this drive in MU's is solely the class 105, but from all I have seen so far, they are standard in all the BR pilot scheme era MU's. Naturally I would be happy to learn if this is not the case from those with the products to look at.)

 

Back to square one job I would suggest. How does it run on 'vanilla' DC, getting no help at all from BEMF compensation?

 

My data from six purchases: a quite recent s/h acquisition was a little 'lumpy' at dead slow, compared to the smoothness seen on all the previous examples. It had a plenitude of grease in the gear train, probably a little stiffer than when it went in at assembly. Unclipping the cosmetic bogie frame and removing the wheelsets allowed most to be removed, and a drop of light oil and some running procured the usual smooth performance at dead slow. (I expect a smooth 'creep' in and out of motion, no bumping or jerkiness apparent. Incidentally, because the trailers are so free running I have found it best to run them buffered up to prevent any free movement of the trailers versus power cars.)

 

I have used the Lenz Standard on all mine except the most recent. That has a Zimo 600 series, because that was what was spare in the decoder drawer at the time. Apart from limiting maximum speed, setting mid speed and putting larger values in CV's 3 and 4 no 'tuning' was required with either decoder. I will probably replace the Zimo with the marginally cheaper Lenz, simply to release the Zimo for an inferior mechanism that needs the help Zimo's excellent control adjustments provide. Only a quid, but money  saved and all that!

Hi,

 

I'd forgotten about the possibility of grease making things lumpy.

 

I find taking the body to access the DCC decoder connector difficult even when I have lots of thin plasticard strips to hand.

 

I will do some experiments possibly when its a bit cooler and I can venture into my model room.

 

 

Many thanks.

 

Nick

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The body removal issue tallies with my experience on the class 105. Fine models, but my strategy is body off once for decoder installation, test thoroughly, restore body and hopefully never again... A smarter solution would have been an accessible socket on the underside wouldn't it?

 

That said, I am very grateful for the MU that suits my modelling interest, and am sure many others likewise for those relevant to them. I never expected a RTR model of the dire shaking and rattling Cravens, let alone a really good one.

[NIK]

10 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

The body removal issue tallies with my experience on the class 105. Fine models, but my strategy is body off once for decoder installation, test thoroughly, restore body and hopefully never again... A smarter solution would have been an accessible socket on the underside wouldn't it?

 

That said, I am very grateful for the MU that suits my modelling interest, and am sure many others likewise for those relevant to them. I never expected a RTR model of the dire shaking and rattling Cravens, let alone a really good one.

Hi,

 

I guess its difficult to put a decoder socket access hole under a Mk1 EMU or DMU due to trussing and other fine detail.

 

DCC decoders have developed since I started DCCing my Bachmann Multiple units. I've still got a 4CEP that was fitted with an early Bachmann 21pin decoder. Its lack of advanced consisting causes problems when consisting and running a 13 car boat train on Beggarwood Lane (see RMWeb topic).

 

I hope to fit my Mk1 EMUs with DCC controlled couplings so they may need a different decoder and possibly an extra decoder in the non powered driving car.

On a more speculative front I hope to fit my EMUs with sparks effects by the pick up shoes whose sparks intensity and repetition rate varies according to whether the EMU is accelerating, coasting or braking. The Zimo range could facilitate this via its smoke generator functions.

 

So I will probably retrofit my EMUS with Zimo budget decoders, probably the 21 pin budget decoder for Bachmann Mk1 EMUs.

 

Regards

 

Nick