Class 88, the original

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

Evening,

 

After doing a bit of research on the web I came across this list of unbuilt British rail locomotives and on the list was a class 88 which was basically an electric version of a class 58. I tried to do some more research into it but I couldn’t find anything. So does anyone have any more info on this class even if it exists or not. I have done a quick sketch of how I’d think one would’ve looked and will put it on if anyone’s interested in seeing my interpretation of one. 
 

All the best, Matthew

[russ p]

It was one of many locos from that period which didn't leave the drawing board.

Nice drawing by the way

[TravisM]

I think there was a plan to have a series of “modular” loco’s which could be built by BRML for domestic and export, though only the Class 58 got built.  There were hopes for export with the Class 58 but they were never forthcoming which is ironic as most are now in France or Spain.

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

9 hours ago, russ p said:

It was one of many locos from that period which didn't leave the drawing board.

Nice drawing by the way

Thank you for the info and the kind words! If this is the case I wonder how easy it is to modify the Heljan 58?

 

9 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I think there was a plan to have a series of “modular” loco’s which could be built by BRML for domestic and export, though only the Class 58 got built.  There were hopes for export with the Class 58 but they were never forthcoming which is ironic as most are now in France or Spain.

I did read about their plans for exporting the 58 as wasn’t the shape of it based off American locomotives if I remember correctly?

 

all the best, Matthew

[DY444]

There were 2 freight AC electric concepts kicking about in the mid-1970s that I can remember - a class "88" which was a Co-Co and a class "89" which was a Bo-Bo-Bo.  Both of them looked like long Class 87s.  There were two variants of the 88 concept - an AC only version and a DV version.  A DV electric did of course eventually appear in the form of the Class 92 albeit with a body design based on the Class 60. 

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

The design of the 58, like similar US locos, was all about easy access to the mechanical parts. Certainly part of an export led design for countries without major maintenance facilities. The heavy chassis frame rather than monocoque construction was also part of the KISS philosophy appropriate for an export design.

 

Not sure that it would make so much sense in an electric loco although commonality of parts is always a good thing.

 

The 58's were not a great success in the UK. Not that they were not a good loco, but the traffic they were built for was disappearing. On the modern railway, where paths for passenger trains at high speeds are needed, freight trains need to run faster too. So an electric version of the 58 is probably a non-starter as at higher speeds it would inflict too much damage on the track.

 

I like the idea of electric freight locos based on a longer 87 shell. Such a loco could have avoided the need for double-heading of freight over Shap and Beattock.

[russ p]

3 hours ago, DY444 said:

There were 2 freight AC electric concepts kicking about in the mid-1970s that I can remember - a class "88" which was a Co-Co and a class "89" which was a Bo-Bo-Bo.  Both of them looked like long Class 87s.  There were two variants of the 88 concept - an AC only version and a DV version.  A DV electric did of course eventually appear in the form of the Class 92 albeit with a body design based on the Class 60. 

 

 

 

Were these the proposed locos for the 1974 channel tunnel? 

I remember seeing small scale models of them that had what looked like 86 front ends on them

[DY444]

4 hours ago, russ p said:

 

Were these the proposed locos for the 1974 channel tunnel? 

I remember seeing small scale models of them that had what looked like 86 front ends on them

 

I think the Channel Tunnel concept locomotive was slightly earlier hence the 86 front.  The ones I recall would have been mid-70s (it was around the time that BR was looking at possible traction solutions to avoid the double heading of liners over the northern fells) and definitely had 87 fronts although there were various illustrations, concept drawings and models kicking around with both 86 and 87 style fronts.  They may well have just pulled out the earlier Channel Tunnel concepts and stuck the latest front on it which at the time was the 87!

Edited November 28, 2019 by DY444

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

On 28/11/2019 at 08:23, DY444 said:

There were 2 freight AC electric concepts kicking about in the mid-1970s that I can remember - a class "88" which was a Co-Co and a class "89" which was a Bo-Bo-Bo.  Both of them looked like long Class 87s.  There were two variants of the 88 concept - an AC only version and a DV version.  A DV electric did of course eventually appear in the form of the Class 92 albeit with a body design based on the Class 60. 

 

 

Very interesting, I wonder what these would look like in the flesh. We’re they identical to the 87s albeit being a bit longer? 
 

all the best, Matthew

[DY444]

5 hours ago, LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004 said:

Very interesting, I wonder what these would look like in the flesh. We’re they identical to the 87s albeit being a bit longer? 
 

all the best, Matthew

 

It was a long time ago and I just remember the wheel arrangements, them being longer and the family likeness with the fronts looking like 87s.

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

9 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

It was a long time ago and I just remember the wheel arrangements, them being longer and the family likeness with the fronts looking like 87s.

Ah ok thanks, I might have to have a go at drawing these at a later date.

 

all the best, Matthew 

[Zomboid]

On 28/11/2019 at 10:40, Joseph_Pestell said:

So an electric version of the 58 is probably a non-starter as at higher speeds it would inflict too much damage on the track.

Aren't the bogies on the 89 very similar to those on a 58?

You'd probably be looking at a less pointy and lower geared 89 in a mid to late 80s electric heavy freight loco, I wouldn't expect that to wreck the track too much at 75mph even with some ballast to improve traction.

[frobisher]

On 30/11/2019 at 20:50, Zomboid said:

Aren't the bogies on the 89 very similar to those on a 58?

 

More relevantly the 92's are of the same design family.