Whirlpool washing machine recall

[2mmMark]

Hopefully media publicity (such as the BBC1 One Show earlier tonight) is making sure people with Hotpoint & Indesit machines are aware there could be problems with the machine overheating at the door lock. These are the machines in scope but it's also dependent on serial number:
FML 742P UK Hotpoint
WMAOD 743G UK Hotpoint
WMAOD 743P UK Hotpoint
WMAQB 721P UK.M Hotpoint
WMAQC 641P UK.M Hotpoint
WMAQC 741G UK Hotpoint
WMAQC 741P UK Hotpoint
WMAQC 741P UK.M Hotpoint
WMAQF 621G UK Hotpoint
WMAQF 621P UK Hotpoint
WMAQF 641 P UK.M Hotpoint
WMAQF 721G UK Hotpoint
WMAQF 721P UK.M Hotpoint
WMAQL 621G UK Hotpoint
WMBF 742G UK Hotpoint
WMBF 742K UK Hotpoint
WMBF 742P UK Hotpoint
WMBF 742P UK.M Hotpoint
WMBF 763P UK Hotpoint
WMEF 722 BC UK Hotpoint
WMEF 742 P UK Hotpoint
WMEUF 722P UK Hotpoint
WMEUF 743G UK Hotpoint
WMEUF 743P UK Hotpoint
WMFG 741P UK Hotpoint
WMFG 741P UK.M Hotpoint
WMFUG 742 P UK.M Hotpoint
WMFUG 742G UK Hotpoint
WMFUG 742P UK Hotpoint
WMFUG 842P UK.M Hotpoint
WMJLF 842P UK Hotpoint
WMJLL 742P UK Hotpoint
WMSAQG 621P UK Hotpoint
WMXTF 742G UK Hotpoint
WMXTF 742K UK Hotpoint
WMXTF 742P UK Hotpoint
WMXTF 742P UK.M Hotpoint
WMXTF 842P UK.M Hotpoint
WMYL 7151PS UK Hotpoint
XWA 81252X K UK Indesit
XWA 81252X W UK Indesit
XWD 71452X K UK Indesit
If, like us, you're the less than proud owner of one of these would-be arsonists, you can check your machine at
https://washingmachinerecall.whirlpool.co.uk/

Whirlpool are supposed to be offering a like for like replacement but people are reporting this isn't happening.  We've been offered a replacement that's too big for the space we have available. Whirlpool are currently refusing refunds which would allow people to source their own replacement but there's a petition in support of refunds that's gaining a lot of signatures:
https://www.thepetitionsite.com/en-gb/558/494/860/whirlpool-should-offer-refunds-to-customers-as-part-of-its-washing-machine-recall/

There's also a Facebook group entitled "Whirlpool Hotpoint Creda Indesit Recalls Support Group UK" which is doing a good job of sharing information. Communications from the company are woefully inadequate.  It looks like they're overwhelmed by the process. Up to 500,000 machines could be affected.  There's

incorrect information being put out by Whirlpool. Some people who've been told their machines are OK are later finding out that they're not.

Mark
 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by 2mmMark

[08221]

The  day after Boxing Day in 2013, our tumble dryer caught fire. It completely gutted the utility room and the kitchen and the smoke caused damage throughout the house. Over £10,000 of damage was caused.

 

The Fire Brigade were brilliant helping us out, but whirlpool were an absolute disgrace and never even acknowledged that a faulty component was the source of the fire as established by the Fire Brigade.

 

 I had bought their devices for years, but never again. 

[2mmMark]

Apologies then for the arsonist comment, you've had a terrible experience.  Some family members had a house fire and it's hugely disruptive, not to mention the obvious immediate danger.

What worries me is that we've had our washing machine since Autumn 2017 so how long have we and others been at risk?  As I understand it, the door switch also carries the water heating current. Very poor design if that's the case.  Cost cutting carried to extremes.

In a phone conversation with customer services, the woman from Whirlpool was trying to distance the Whirlpool brand from Hotpoint.  Nice try but Whirlpool acquired Hotpoint in 2014 and our machine was made in 2017.

Edited January 15, 2020 by 2mmMark

[Paul80]

I used to be a white goods engineer and we were replacing these same burned out door locks in Indesit washing machines 20 years ago, so it's not a new problem, the problem is the same lock is now used on Wirlpool and Hotpoint machines as well as Indesit or In the Sh** as they used to be called.

 

The next one will be the Dishwashers that can develop a fault that lets them turn the heaters on without any water being taken.

 

Fires in Domestic Appliances is not a new problem, social media warning everyone now makes it seem like it's a new issue, its not.

 

Paul

[spikey]

According to the Whirlpool engineer who came out to out Indesit washing machine last week for an unconnected issue, the whole door lock thing is actually straightforward.  There are four different ones: either four different makers or four slightly different designs, I'm not sure which, but only one of them is iffy, and it's readily identifiable to the engineer by colour and part number.

 

As to why the door lock carries so much current, it's simple - the lock mechanism is a bi-metal strip.  Switch machine on, strip heats up, flicks over and forms a mechanical lock.  That's why when the machine has finished its cycle, you have to wait for the bi-metal strip to cool down and flick back to its normal state.

Edited January 15, 2020 by spikey
Clarity

[2mmMark]

It's brought home the fact that these sort of applicances shouldn't be left to run unattended. 

 

House fires can start from seemingly innocuous causes.  The one suffered by my brother-in-law's family came from a leaking aerosol which had rusted, allowing the inflammable propellant to accumulate until it got to the point where it was able to be ignited by their oven. This has had us all checking our cupboards, including the firefighters who attended the fire.

 

We've ended up with a Hotpoint because our previous AEG failed and was declared beyond economic repair by Applicance Serve. Applicance Serve provided us with the Hotpoint. It was either that or a cash sum equivalent to the premium we paid for the insurance. Hindsight says that the second option would have been better.

I've pretty much written off the machine and am resigned to buying a new one of our choice independently.

[2mmMark]

20 minutes ago, spikey said:

According to the Whirlpool engineer who came out to out Indesit washing machine last week for an unconnected issue, the whole door lock thing is actually straightforward.  There are four different ones: either four different makers or four slightly different designs, I'm not sure which, but only one of them is iffy, and it's readily identifiable to the engineer by colour and part number.

 

As to why the door lock carries so much current, it's simple - the lock mechanism is a bi-metal strip.  Switch machine on, strip heats up, flicks over and forms a mechanical lock.  That's why when the machine has finished its cycle, you have to wait for the bi-metal strip to cool down and flick back to its normal state.

So it comes down to a cheap design then.  If this is their design philosophy, who's to say the same problem won't reoccur in the future.

Curious to see that Whirlpool have revised their offer of repair or replacement to just a replacement.

 

 

[RedgateModels]

Thankfully ours is not on the list (an Indesit) we did get a replacement tumble dryer which was a bloody nightmare at the time. We first opted for the fix option, engineer came round and "tested" our electrics before he would start, tripping the RCD and claiming our wiring was no good and leaving. After paying for a real electrician to check things out (ok of course) he came back and did the same thing ....... Ended up taking the replacement option as the dryer packed up anyway.

 

Had to buy a new dishwasher over Christmas, guess what brands were on the "never again" list

[Fat Controller]

It must be nigh on forty years ago that I worked at an Indesit warehouse in Alsager. My job was to undo the packing tape, and  open boxes, so that a team of Italian technicians could exchange the OE PCBs for ones which had been checked. These QC problems don't seem to be a recent thing.

Whirlpool's own warehouse (the former Transfesa depot at Paddock Wood) went up in smoke on 4th July, 2005...

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

13 hours ago, 2mmMark said:

Hopefully media publicity (such as the BBC1 One Show earlier tonight) is making sure people with Hotpoint & Indesit machines are aware there could be problems with the machine overheating at the door lock. These are the machines in scope but it's also dependent on serial number...

So that's dependent on a correct analysis of the Bill of Materials ('BoM') for each of the production runs, to call out those that got the malfunctioning part; on the assumption that the BoM's are correct. Do I trust that? No way, for a low cost white goods assembly shop output. (Audit experience. Low cost assembly ops management have a sole focus, N units of Item X shipped: any called part not available for which there is a substitute; make the substitution. Does 'the paperwork' get revised to reflect that? What do you think?)

 

2 hours ago, spikey said:

According to the Whirlpool engineer who came out to our Indesit washing machine last week for an unconnected issue, the whole door lock thing is actually straightforward.  There are four different ones: either four different makers or four slightly different designs, I'm not sure which, but only one of them is iffy, and it's readily identifiable to the engineer by colour and part number...

If that service agent has the truth of it, that's a far more reliable check in my opinion.

[stewartingram]

We had a Hotpoint tumble drier that was affected, it was replaced for £19 by a dearer model from Hotpoint. But I always regularly strip them down for de-fluffing anyway. The new one is certainly not fluff proof so it is worth checking & cleaning!

When I managed to get on the Whirlpool site to check our washing machine, the advice given included checking the colour of the switch, and the s/n. It proved positive, so was reported and I later received a conformation email that it would be repaired, replaced, or refunded. I wonder how that would stand up legally? TBH, I want a refund, I do not trust the make anymore. We are still using it, low temp, never unattended. (And the bearings are now showing signs of failure too). It is a late 2017 purchase. 

Personally, with 1/2 million machines faulty, and the earlier dryer debacle, I think the company will be lucky if they survive beyond the recall; also punters will in the main not buy from them in the future too.

 

Stewart

[2mmMark]

47 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

We had a Hotpoint tumble drier that was affected, it was replaced for £19 by a dearer model from Hotpoint. But I always regularly strip them down for de-fluffing anyway. The new one is certainly not fluff proof so it is worth checking & cleaning!

When I managed to get on the Whirlpool site to check our washing machine, the advice given included checking the colour of the switch, and the s/n. It proved positive, so was reported and I later received a conformation email that it would be repaired, replaced, or refunded. I wonder how that would stand up legally? TBH, I want a refund, I do not trust the make anymore. We are still using it, low temp, never unattended. (And the bearings are now showing signs of failure too). It is a late 2017 purchase. 

Personally, with 1/2 million machines faulty, and the earlier dryer debacle, I think the company will be lucky if they survive beyond the recall; also punters will in the main not buy from them in the future too.

 

Stewart

Whirlpool are refusing refunds using the justification that they are responsible for the machines and don't want dangerous goods entering the second-hand market.  With a bit of thought, they could easily ensure this doesn't happen and still give refunds equivalent to the value of the proposed replacement. I suspect they also don't want to lose market share by effectively subsidising affected owners to buy from competitors.  Shutting the stable door comes to mind.

The replacement machines we been offered so far are not the promised "like for like" replacement. Whirlpool have a strange system where via a web link you are only offered one specific machine at a time and if that doesn't meet your requirements, you have to keep checking back until a different machine appears.  It's like some kind of demented vending machine crossed with the shopping system from East Germany in the 1970s.

 

[Reorte]

More of a general point and dryer rather than washer related, but since I stuck up an old-fashioned ceiling drying rack I hardly ever use the dryer other than for towels. And what's not running is less likely to catch fire.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Reorte

[jonny777]

4 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

It must be nigh on forty years ago that I worked at an Indesit warehouse in Alsager. My job was to undo the packing tape, and  open boxes, so that a team of Italian technicians could exchange the OE PCBs for ones which had been checked. These QC problems don't seem to be a recent thing.

Whirlpool's own warehouse (the former Transfesa depot at Paddock Wood) went up in smoke on 4th July, 2005...

 

 

 

I can go a little further back than that, because when my parents lived in Lincolnshire during the 1960s Indesit had a misprint in their washing machine manual which meant that our home phone was given as one of the numbers for their faults desk. 

 

We suddenly started getting hundreds of calls almost every day; although many probably went unanswered as we were all out at work/school; but the school holidays were a nightmare. My Dad did manage to find out the reason why the phone didn't stop ringing on some days, and they must have issued an updated manual because the numbers did tail off after a few weeks, although we would still get the odd call around 10 years later. 

 

My parents swore that they would never buy anything from Indesit, and I don't think I have either (that I can remember). Maybe their printing error did our family a big favour? 

[gordon s]

They don't make 'em like they used to....

 

Saw this a few weeks ago and went to check our Hotpoint washing machine. It didn't appear on the list, so pulled out the manual to make sure I had the right number. My wife, bless her, is totally organised and there was label on the outside of the plastic folder telling me it was bought in 2006, so pre dates the recall. It gets plenty of use and is probably on a couple of times a week and is still going strong after 13 years. Far be it from me to suggest the door lock design was changed to save money....

 

She also keeps the date of purchase on her calendar, so was surprised to see our Hotpoint tumble dryer will have its 22nd birthday on September 23rd. Perhaps we should have a party.......

[melmerby]

The problems all originate at a firm called Merloni in Italy which was the owner of Indesit (and Creda & Hotpoint)

Whirlpool purchased the Indesit, Creda & Hotpoint brands from them in 2014 (I bet they wish they hadn't)

These faulty machines all appear to be ex-Merloni designs.

I learnt later that Merloni didn't have a very good reputation.

We bought a Creda spin drier believing them to still be made in the UK as all the previous ones had been.

It expired less than a month after purchase. (the motor failed in a cloud of smoke - sound familiar?)

Merloni wouldn't give the seller an immediate repacement as it was more than a month old, by a couple of days.

(As it wasn't in stock it had been ordered and Merloni took the date of order as the start time!)

The replacement motor wasn't in stock at Merloni and had to be put on back order delivery date unknown, so the retailer bought another machine and swapped the faulty one at their own expense, needless to say their opinion of Merloni was unprintable.

 

Obviously when our old British made Creda drier gave up the ghost after many years faultless service, another now foreign designed Creda was not what we were going to consider, after the spin drier debacle.

We bought instead a British built White Knight drier which has not given the slightest problem in approaching 10 years of use.

 

The episode with the spin drier had the fortunate side effect of us not having bought a faulty Merloni designed drier or washing machine (or fridge freezer as in the Grenfell fire)

 

 

[EddieB]

Went through the checks around three weeks ago and yes, our washing machine is affected.

 

Since when, we have heard absolutely zip.

 

No, I tell a lie, we’ve heard a mighty racket most days - already had a whole drum replaced because of worn bearings (trust me, it is level) - a bit like having a Jumbo Jet in the kitchen.

 

Update: just called the helpline, which is manned as a agency call centre. Promised that we will get an email confirming our registration.  Apparently a number of customers didn’t receive such emails. I asked if Jeff Noel (the Vice President whose face appears on the website) has been made aware that there’s a failure in the process of dealing with safety-critical faults - “I don’t know, we’re just a call centre”.

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by EddieB

[2mmMark]

1 hour ago, EddieB said:

Went through the checks around three weeks ago and yes, our washing machine is affected.

 

Since when, we have heard absolutely zip.

 

No, I tell a lie, we’ve heard a mighty racket most days - already had a whole drum replaced because of worn bearings (trust me, it is level) - a bit like having a Jumbo Jet in the kitchen.

 

Update: just called the helpline, which is manned as a agency call centre. Promised that we will get an email confirming our registration.  Apparently a number of customers didn’t receive such emails. I asked if Jeff Noel (the Vice President whose face appears on the website) has been made aware that there’s a failure in the process of dealing with safety-critical faults - “I don’t know, we’re just a call centre”.

 

 

 

 

The people at the 0800 call centre are indeed agency staff taken on to deal with the recall and can only give standard answers.

 

I spoke to one of them this afternoon who felt they were being given an impossible task and that the offer of a single machine take it or leave is very poor. It sounds like they get a lot of stick from disgruntled customers. Not a very nice job for them.

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by 2mmMark

[stewartingram]

We had a Hotpoint tumble drier that was affected, it was replaced for £19 by a dearer model from Hotpoint. But I always regularly strip them down for de-fluffing anyway. The new one is certainly not fluff proof so it is worth checking & cleaning!

When I managed to get on the Whirlpool site to check our washing machine, the advice given included checking the colour of the switch, and the s/n. It proved positive, so was reported and I later received a conformation email that it would be repaired, replaced, or refunded. I wonder how that would stand up legally? TBH, I want a refund, I do not trust the make anymore. We are still using it, low temp, never unattended. (And the bearings are now showing signs of failure too). It is a late 2017 purchase. 

Personally, with 1/2 million machines faulty, and the earlier dryer debacle, I think the company will be lucky if they survive beyond the recall; also punters will in the main not buy from them in the future too.

 

Stewart

 

 

.....................................................................

 

Further to the above, we had a different Hotpoint washing machine previous to this. It failed - I can't remember the exact details of the time, but see later) - and was not very old. We bought a new one, not quite the same spec but close. I stored the old one in the shed, thinking that I could repair it as it wasn't very old & not a big fault. This was late 2017. Early summer, last year, sister-in-law had a massive fault with her machine, and couldn't afford a repair or replacement. So as you do (at least I do), I said she could have our earlier one if I could repair it. 

It didn't take much googling to find out the fault and what to do with it. I ordered the parts online (not from Hotpoint I might add, but aftermarket parts from a place I've used many times for different items, always seem good quality). I fitted it and it has worked fine ever since. To say she is chuffed is a big understatement, she loves the machine (as we did).

Oh, I nearly forgot, the fault?

A burnt out door switch! I actually stripped the switch down and the contacts were completely useless. And the feed wire to the switch had to have a new tag crimped on, because of excess heat. I didn't think at the time though that it was a fire hazard?

But the machine type was NOT on the list published over Xmas. So there is more to this than they admit.

I still think they are overwhelmed with the cost of this and won't survive it. Think simple figures, 1/2 million faulty machines at £100 each to them is £50 million pounds. I've no idea of their cost of the machine, but wouldn't expect less than £100? Plus the extra expense of sorting everything out? Mmmmm.......

 

Stewart

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

3 hours ago, stewartingram said:

 ...Personally, with 1/2 million machines faulty, and the earlier dryer debacle, I think the company will be lucky if they survive beyond the recall; also punters will in the main not buy from them in the future too...

It's a  pretty big corporate, and will have a legion of tax accountants to offset the recall costs against tax liability, and other such manoeuvres. Own a goodly number of brand names too, so can pick up 'lost' sales on their brands that are not tainted...

[Dava]

We have a Hotpoint which is 1 digit removed from the affected machines so I'm sanguine. 

 

Whirlpoo [!] the owner of so many white goods brands is now irretrievably tarnished just as VW with it's fraudulently certified diesels and  Boeing with its crashy new 737s parked all over Seattle. Do they deserve our business and to survive?

 

30 years ago I was making my living from Total Quality Management, zero defects, a philosophy and system of management which should have prevented the root causes of such self-inflicted cost-driven problems. Instead these organisations opted for ISO09000 at best which was basically conformance to requirements, ie if the documentation said it was good to go, it went out the door. A cheaper approach but we see the results. German badged washing machines like Siemens and AEG will sell very well, the Hotpoints and Indeshits will not.  

 

I guess you get what you're prepared to pay for but most people [like me] did not know how many brands Whirlpoo owned.

 

Dava

[2mmMark]

7 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

It's a  pretty big corporate, and will have a legion of tax accountants to offset the recall costs against tax liability, and other such manoeuvres. Own a goodly number of brand names too, so can pick up 'lost' sales on their brands that are not tainted...

The "Ryanair" philosophy will be coming into play, with Whirlpool making a calculated decision that price-sensitive customers will continue to choose machines that are affordable to them.  In addition to that, there will be people (like myself) who have decided not to wait for a repair or replacement and instead will purchase a new machine elsewhere.  While that's a brand loss to Whirlpool, it lets them off the hook financially.

[stewartingram]

Do we have a list of Whirlpool brands?

[Jonboy]

Is it just me that is impressed with the way retailers are seemingly avoiding any scrutiny for their failures under the sale of goods act to ensure their stock was fit for purpose?

 

I am also surprised that whirlpool are offering refunds when they wouldn’t have seen a substantial part of the margin in the first place. Are they full refunds or is there a wear and tear allowance taken from it?

 

(we did have one of the tumble dryers in the previous recall, sadly it died a normal end of life in the year(!) between registering it on their website and them contacting us to arrange a repair...).

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Do we have a list of Whirlpool brands?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whirlpool_Corporation

 

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