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Dear All,

 

I hope you will accept my apologies in advance, as I'm certain to repeat previously-asked questions.

 

As if I haven't got enough to do, I've recently decided that I'd like to collect a few Hornby Dublo 3-rail items, and perhaps build a small layout for them to run on. It's pure nostalgia, of course: some forty-five-odd years ago as a small child of six or seven, I was allowed to play (carefully!) with my Dad's Dublo set, one which he had had as a child in the 1950s. I wasn't allowed to run the loco (BR 2-6-4t), though, so my "engine" was an Esso Royal Daylight tank wagon! Sadly, Dad sold his collection when we were building a GWR BLT layout together, which in hindsight was a massive shame as most if not all the set and wagons were mint in their boxes!

 

I've decided I'm collecting only lithographed tinplate items, as they have a certain extra special aesthetic. So, to kick things off, I've bought a couple of items from that well-known internet auction site, and I'm on the look-out for others. Of course, its no surprise that Dublo items, being of the age they are, are often a bit knocked about, and to be fair I really want "nice" pieces. That's not to say that I'm not open to doing restoration work, but therein lies the rub.

 

For instance, one of my recent purchases is a BR High Capacity Wagon #32050 (bogie brick), which is generally in very nice condition with no dents and no real marks or scratches. However, the corners where the body is folded (I'm assuming the litho bodies were printed as flat sheets and then folded up around formers) a very small amount of paint is missing. Is this due to the production method, or is it play wear? I think I've been quite lucky with this wagon, but if paint loss were more severe, how difficult would it be to remedy and are there any special techniques? 

 

Quite a lot of the Dublo wagons one sees for sale have chipped underframe paintwork. Is is possible to detach tinplate bodies from their underframes and then reattach them afterwards? If so, it would presumably be a simple (!) matter to strip the damaged paint from the underframe and sympathetically repaint it. What type of paint would have been used originally, I wonder? Probably something containing lead.....! Also, with respect to the bogie brick wagon, if it were necessary to detach the bogies, is it possible to find replacements for the pivots (which appear to be rivets)?

 

I also have a low-sided wagon, sadly without its container, which is quite badly chipped. On this wagon, the body appears to be die-cast and is held to the underframe by the brass rivets that also secure the couplings. Are these rivets available? And if it were to be completely stripped down, are suitable transfers available to restore the livery?

 

I do apologise if these questions have been covered previously - I have searched this forum and while I've found a few references to restoration of Dublo rolling stock, actual techniques or processes seem to be difficult to unearth. So I would be very grateful if our erudite members could tell me a bit more about it and help me along with my second childhood!

 

With many thanks in advance,

 

Mark

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Here are a few photos of the wagons I've referred to above:

 

The bogie brick wagon:

http://IMG-1692.jpg

 

A corner showing the small amount of paint loss:

http://IMG-1694.jpg

Is this due to manufacture or play wear? And if were more extensive, can it be remedied?

 

Also, there seems to be a tiny spot of rust:

http://IMG-1695.jpg

At the top of the panel with the branding. Is this a potential problem, on this wagon or on others?

 

And the low-sided wagon:

http://IMG-1696.jpg

Sadly missing its container. Is that restorable?

 

Thanks for any help or advice!

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

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Welcome to the slippery slope....   :)

 

Minor damage. Most is far worse....

 

You could touch in the chip. Matching the colour is the problem. It is usually advised to not touch up minor chips however as it affects the value. Restored/repainted items are usually only 'worth' as much as a 'good/average' item, no matter how well done. removal of the rust is probably worthwhile, if done carefully. The rust can only spread. perhaps a spot of rust killer of some kind? It's not very important in this case as a brick wagon isn't worth a lot. The low-sided wagon is very common (decent containers less so due to their construction), so a touch up wouldn't hurt.

 

The items were indeed printed first and then cut out and folded. This explains why many of them have the printing out of position I find GWR cattle trucks and SR meat vans* particularly bad in this respect. In the '80s, I let one of the latter go for this defect. Idiot, it was only £4.50.... It appears that they stashed away a load of sheets at the stat of WWII, so most pre-nationalisation wagon bodies are in fact pre-war. Pre-war items have a loop coupling and usually suffer from 'zinc pest'.

 

*An example of what I mean.  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324047875242?ul_noapp=true

 

The tinplate items can  be dismantled by lifting the tabs with a suitable tool. care is required as they are easily scratched. The tabs will usually accept bending a couple of times (TTR tinplate is less forgiving).

 

A long time ago, I read an article about a Hornby 0 gauge collector who claimed to have invented a method for matching the finish. His items certainly looked good in the photos. Unfortunately he didn't share the technique! Apparently he had all the Brighton antique dealers saving items for him, which explained why I could never find anything on my visits.

 

There is plenty of material to collect. Rare items are anything pre-war, the early tank wagons, anything SR, anything GWR except the cattle truck, the LNER high-sided/coal wagon and the LMS cattle truck. Add LNER all 3rd class coaches, and anything with a horseshoe magnet especially the black LNER livery N2 tank. Most of the BR range is common, except the low-sided wagon with the Dublo Dinky tractor load and the later (post 1960) SD6 wagons and 3 rail locomotives (nickel drivers) SD6 restaurant cars and SR vehicles are to be snapped up unless they suffer from rust around the windows which is common (even then if the price is right). Make sure any track has no damage to the base (it's often bent) and avoid Korean war period material (steel rail and cardboard insulators). Pre-war track has brass rail and manual points with sleepering printed rather than the usual grey. Clockwork track (no centre conductor) is rare and sought after.

 

Don't use the Dublo mains equipment unless it has a PVC mains cable.

 

Ideally you need a copy of the Dublo 'bible'  https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/362554216377?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=362554216377&targetid=855806132334&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045002&poi=&campaignid=7412990566&mkgroupid=94005539728&rlsatarget=aud-629407025185:pla-855806132334&abcId=1139356&merchantid=7272394&gclid=CjwKCAiA35rxBRAWEiwADqB37x0t2DU7chc9PYjhjuDbOBgkhxPTgY0jz1_49V3bbOCj5uojxva_zhoCAeEQAvD_BwE

 

(No connection - this was the first to come up on a google search.) The price is quite good. I paid £18 for my copy  in the eighties, but did get a free Hornby 'Pugh & Co.' wagon with it (date clue!). I suspect the model shop (in Kenilworth) is long gone.

 

Edited by Il Grifone
Yet more waffle!

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3 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

Welcome to the slippery slope....   :)

 

Minor damage. Most is far worse....

 

You could touch in the chip. Matching the colour is the problem. It is usually advised to not touch up minor chips however as it affects the value. Restored/repainted items are usually only 'worth' as much as a 'good/average' item, no matter how well done. removal of the rust is probably worthwhile, if done carefully. The rust can only spread. perhaps a spot of rust killer of some kind? It's not very important in this case as a brick wagon isn't worth a lot. The low-sided wagon is very common (decent containers less so due to their construction), so a touch up wouldn't hurt.

 

The items were indeed printed first and then cut out and folded. This explains why many of them have the printing out of position I find GWR cattle trucks and SR meat vans* particularly bad in this respect. In the '80s, I let one of the latter go for this defect. Idiot, it was only £4.50.... It appears that they stashed away a load of sheets at the stat of WWII, so most pre-nationalisation wagon bodies are in fact pre-war. Pre-war items have a loop coupling and usually suffer from 'zinc pest'.

 

*An example of what I mean.  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324047875242?ul_noapp=true

 

The tinplate items can  be dismantled by lifting the tabs with a suitable tool. care is required as they are easily scratched. The tabs will usually accept bending a couple of times (TTR tinplate is less forgiving).

 

A long time ago, I read an article about a Hornby 0 gauge collector who claimed to have invented a method for matching the finish. His items certainly looked good in the photos. Unfortunately he didn't share the technique! Apparently he had all the Brighton antique dealers saving items for him, which explained why I could never find anything on my visits.

 

There is plenty of material to collect. Rare items are anything pre-war, the early tank wagons, anything SR, anything GWR except the cattle truck, the LNER high-sided/coal wagon and the LMS cattle truck. Add LNER all 3rd class coaches, and anything with a horseshoe magnet especially the black LNER livery N2 tank. Most of the BR range is common, except the low-sided wagon with the Dublo Dinky tractor load and the later (post 1960) SD6 wagons and 3 rail locomotives (nickel drivers) SD6 restaurant cars and SR vehicles are to be snapped up unless they suffer from rust around the windows which is common (even then if the price is right). Make sure any track has no damage to the base (it's often bent) and avoid Korean war period material (steel rail and cardboard insulators). Pre-war track has brass rail and manual points with sleepering printed rather than the usual grey. Clockwork track (no centre conductor) is rare and sought after.

 

Don't use the Dublo mains equipment unless it has a PVC mains cable.

 

Ideally you need a copy of the Dublo 'bible'  https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/362554216377?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=362554216377&targetid=855806132334&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045002&poi=&campaignid=7412990566&mkgroupid=94005539728&rlsatarget=aud-629407025185:pla-855806132334&abcId=1139356&merchantid=7272394&gclid=CjwKCAiA35rxBRAWEiwADqB37x0t2DU7chc9PYjhjuDbOBgkhxPTgY0jz1_49V3bbOCj5uojxva_zhoCAeEQAvD_BwE

 

(No connection - this was the first to come up on a google search.) The price is quite good. I paid £18 for my copy  in the eighties, but did get a free Hornby 'Pugh & Co.' wagon with it (date clue!). I suspect the model shop (in Kenilworth) is long gone.

 

 

Hi David,

 

many thanks for your very informative reply - I had feared it would be a slippery slope.....! As a first port of call, I'll search out a copy of the book - thank you for the link - so that I can (perhaps) start to get a idea of what's what.

 

I must admit that I did think that restoration could diminish the value of items, in the same way as it can/does with antique clocks, tableware etc. But one must assume that, apart from particularly rare items, a well-restored item is more desirable than an equivalent in a mess, and may be worth attempting. There seem to be quite a number of the brick wagons on Ebay, and I didn't pay much so I'm quite happy! I'll possibly try to give it a touch up, but it isn't bad, although the rust might be worth treating. Can you suggest anything? I'm used to using products like Jenolite on classic car parts, but I fear it might just eat tinlate! I'll clean up and paint the low-sided wagon, though, as it came with the brick wagon.

 

Quite typical that having discovered that HD actually did pre-Nationalisation liveries, items liveried for the good old GWR are at a premium! However, I think I might focus my searching a bit more closely, although a few other companies' wagons doesn't hurt! But I imagine that anything pre-War fetches a huge premium, especially if its in good condition.

 

Thanks again for your post, and if you think of anything else pertinent, please let me know!

 

All the best,

 

Mark

 

 

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There isn't much GWR stock. Wagons are limited to a van, a 5 plank open (also available with a plastic* coal load as a coal wagon, but otherwise identical) a brake van and a cattle truck, no coaches and the loco is the N2 liveried in dark green as a 66xx. Pre-war with the shirt button and post war with 'G W R'. Post war there was a reissue of the brake van and we got the Castle, a restaurant car and the T.P.O. van Coaches were available in BR chocolate and cream (Staniers masquerading as BR standard Mk Is) The SD6 period gave us a few more ex GWR wagons and better models of the Mk Is (short but otherwise rather good. No one has yet bettered Dublo's rendition of flush glazing (IMHO).

 

I'm not sure how the tractor was secured to the wagon. It could just be a push fit? (It's one of the holes in my collection.)

 

* The plastic is acetate so the load has invariably shrunk and probably warped as well. This also applies to the A4 tender top and to a lesser extent the coach windows.

Edited by Il Grifone
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22 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

 

I'm not sure how the tractor was secured to the wagon. It could just be a push fit? (It's one of the holes in my collection.)

A rubber band?

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I think they did use an off-white elastic band (I used to have one, lost in the move).

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Hi welcome to this part of the forum

here is a couple of photos of my layout 

and a pair of class 20s

neil Hargreaves 9260

A4D720DE-F358-4304-A178-09B2114D2E29.jpeg

65BAE8F2-7027-4D9B-AF1E-76EF5BAD484C.jpeg

81B25406-E2A4-47F4-A2E6-65D14CC56FFF.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

There isn't much GWR stock. Wagons are limited to a van, a 5 plank open (also available with a plastic* coal load as a coal wagon, but otherwise identical) a brake van and a cattle truck, no coaches and the loco is the N2 liveried in dark green as a 66xx. Pre-war with the shirt button and post war with 'G W R'. Post war there was a reissue of the brake van and we got the Castle, a restaurant car and the T.P.O. van Coaches were available in BR chocolate and cream (Staniers masquerading as BR standard Mk Is) The SD6 period gave us a few more ex GWR wagons and better models of the Mk Is (short but otherwise rather good. No one has yet bettered Dublo's rendition of flush glazing (IMHO).

 

I'm not sure how the tractor was secured to the wagon. It could just be a push fit? (It's one of the holes in my collection.)

 

* The plastic is acetate so the load has invariably shrunk and probably warped as well. This also applies to the A4 tender top and to a lesser extent the coach windows.

 

Shame! Still, I'm not planning on a building an empire, so if I could find a half-dozen or so nice examples plus a few "foreigners" would be enough.

 

I've seen some photos of the 0-6-2T in GWR guise - I was actually quite impressed with the Swindon-esque safety valve bonnet! (I did pick up one in BR livery for not much money, again in need of TLC, and again although it wouldn't be increased in value by a resto it would/could look the part!) Which of the coaches are lithographed - I seem to recall from my Dad's set that the suburban coaches were. Were any issued in chocolate and cream? Please excuse my ignorance (I've found a copy of the "bible" and its on order), but what is the SD6 period?

 

In the meantime, I'll keep looking!

 

All the best,

 

Mark

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37 minutes ago, gtis said:

Hi welcome to this part of the forum

here is a couple of photos of my layout 

and a pair of class 20s

neil Hargreaves 9260

A4D720DE-F358-4304-A178-09B2114D2E29.jpeg

65BAE8F2-7027-4D9B-AF1E-76EF5BAD484C.jpeg

81B25406-E2A4-47F4-A2E6-65D14CC56FFF.jpeg

 

Hi Neil,

 

that looks fantastic! How do you find the reliability of the track and points? The locos look great, and the buildings are so evocative! Have you got any more photographs?

 

All the best,

 

Mark

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Hi mark

i have a few problems with the track not been laid properly but I cope , I have 1 problem with a electric point not throwing over properly  but just check it before the loco runs over it

I am still wiring a couple of controllers up

No other photos yet but I have a few videos 

but I can’t upload them too big

I have a few on tweeter 

found a few more photos ,the first is one i repainted and the second is before I put the engine shed in

Neil

38B075D4-9C35-42A7-AA83-2784CD1BED29.jpeg

7084E8C2-3D36-4487-8653-CECDC1B16889.jpeg

312A3710-2C09-4024-8A77-5249D8BBA2CC.jpeg

Edited by gtis
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I wouldn`t worry about a few paint chips,These items can be 50 or 60 years old.There is plenty of reasonable condition stock on the web,i suggest JWmodel railways,he has some pretty good stock.Don`t start bending tabs,you`ll scratch the paint finish.Locos are a another kettle of fish,being old,they do suffer from being playworn but with a repaint of badly scuffed paint,they can be refinished as in the pics here.It all depends on how far you want to go.Also a reasonble view of part of my layout.

 

                        Ray.

20180922_224422.jpg

bradford 1.jpg

20190611_230501.jpg

20191026_153051.jpg

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A late friend of mine Michael Carter, used to exhibit a H/D 3 rail Tinplate collection years ago. .I always feel the plastic bodied wagons don't work well with the lithographed tin ones. Its also difficult to match the H/D paint finish on Locos and impossible on rolling stock.  Repainted Wrenn bodies on 3 rail chassis always seems to Jar.

At speed the later SD6 coaches are a match for anything produced RTR today in the way the the light reflects on the sides and the near flush glazing, and the compensated bogies are streets ahead of the RTR rubbish we buy today.

I use the plastic bodied wagons with all sorts of locos , Hattojs , Bachmann, Hornby, Wren etc but have to stuff the non H/D locos with lead to pull a decent length train.

Apart from the black under frames the paint can't really be touched up.  Poundland spray satin black or Matt black are a good match for H/D black.

The tin bodies can be removed from their chassis if you carefully tease the tags straight, you can even re attach them if you are careful.  The plastic Vans have the body attached with a self tapping screw  and come off easily, the plastic open wagons and the die cast body 16T Mineral have the body attached by the coupling rivet which has to be drilled out and then you can't get new ones to rivet the body back on. I shorten the rivet to just hold the coupling and glue the body back on. 

You may find a lot of corroded 3 rail wheels and bent axles, and damaged 2 rail wheels. To remove the axles the body has to come off the 4 wheel wagons and the axle hanger tags carefully teased straight. Best to remove all 4 really.  Replacement  hangers are available but come in two types at least, round hole and elongated hole, ideally don't mix them.  

The 2 rail wheels wear out, axle ends wear into grooves.  3 rail wheels are direct replacements.   3 rail wheels can often be repaired by straightening the axle and then spinning them in a drill chuck against a piece of emery cloth or a file.  There are some Mazak ones highly prized which are rubbish because they disintegrate or get chipped flanges.   I have stripped a lot of tatty 3 rail tinplate wagons . I recondition the 3 rail wheels and stick them on eBay, fit 2 rail wheels and use the chassis for mainline or Bachmann bodies for my layout which uses H/D couplings.   

The Coach bogies have several versions, the later ones are compensated, and I have no idea how to change the wheels.  The earlier ones have a single hanger which had a tag which can be eased up without removing the bogies and the wheels dropped out.  Now I put Romford top hat pin point bushes in the hangers and file them flush. I can then fit H0 (Lima)  wheels, 00 axles are too long, and as Lima wheels are insulated one side I pick up power through the pin points for coach lighting.  They run beautifully.  I have them under all sorts of Mainline, Ratio, Triang etc bodies.

The SD6 coaches are beautiful but too short. They fade horribly so keep them in the dark, Also the roofs warp.  I had a brown one which started BR Crimson.

The BG stands comparison with the latest RTR.  I have one on my fish train.

H/D runs beautifully because the wheels are supported across point gaps by the flanges running on the bottom of the point flangeways .

The old Duchess is a pathetic performer as standard and greatly benefits from the Wrenn Duchess tender draw bar arrangement.  Mine used to manage 3 H/D coaches and now 2 railed and with modified drawbar pulls 8 up a 1 in 30, easily.

Watch the power unit, H/D controllers have a great overload cut out. Modern ones have crap polyswitches, and you can easily damage an armature with a heavy load at low speed.   If you get any rubbishy items stick them back on eBay cheap and I'll buy them to hack about for my layout!

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The low sided wagon was sold on its own, as well as with the Furniture Container (maroon), the Isul-meat Container (white), and the Dublo Dinky Tractor (blue).

 

The Tractor had no location device, apart from a rubber band.

 

The Cable Drum Low Sided wagon, incidentally, has a different body, with ridges for the drums, and holes for the load retaining string. (There are at least two versions...)

 

SD6 refers to the Super Detail range, the plastic body wagons, and the Pullman and MK 1 coaches with plastic roofs, also the associated "Suburban" coaches.

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11 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

 

Shame! Still, I'm not planning on a building an empire, so if I could find a half-dozen or so nice examples plus a few "foreigners" would be enough.

 

I've seen some photos of the 0-6-2T in GWR guise - I was actually quite impressed with the Swindon-esque safety valve bonnet! (I did pick up one in BR livery for not much money, again in need of TLC, and again although it wouldn't be increased in value by a resto it would/could look the part!) Which of the coaches are lithographed - I seem to recall from my Dad's set that the suburban coaches were. Were any issued in chocolate and cream? Please excuse my ignorance (I've found a copy of the "bible" and its on order), but what is the SD6 period?

 

In the meantime, I'll keep looking!

 

All the best,

 

Mark

 

There shouldn't be any problem doing up an N2 tank (I assume she's one of the 'cycling lion' versions - the later ones with the 'ferret' are a different case) as they are common and inexpensive. (Spares like the 3 rail pick up and the front coupling can cost more than a complete locomotive!) What I called the SD6 (Super Detail 6*) period would start with the release of the plastic grain wagon  (I can remember shooting off to the local toy shop with 6/9d in my hot little hand to buy one of the first batch - 1957 IIRC.)

The LNER,  ER ,  the first issue of the suburban coaches (D13) and the goods brake vans had printed windows. All the others had proper windows, although they didn't bother with glazing for the T.P.O. and the brake vans.

 

No suburban coaches in chocolate and cream. They might have been planned, as I gather they were drawn up pre-war but had to wait until 1954 to see the light of day with the 2-6-4T. There are green ones however.

 

The elastic band would explain the lack of fixing in the ones offered for sale as it will have perished long since. A piece of Meccano green cord as used for the cable drum and cranes would have been better.

 

* I've no idea why '6' though.

Edited by Il Grifone
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RE: SD6.

 

I wonder if it was looking forward, to 1960?

 

A range for the '60s?

 

Or, were there originally going to be 6 models? Less likely??

 

Cable Drum Wagons...

 

Later versions use an elasticated black string, rather than the traditional green string.

 

The green string was also used on the cranes, Breakdown,  goods shed, and Dinky goods yard crane.

Edited by Sarahagain
string things
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Dear All,

 

thank you all so much for your comments, thoughts and advice. I hope you won't mind if I answer your posts individually - I think if I try to do a multiple quote anwser, I'll just get muddled!

 

Thanks once again, and please keep the comments coming!

 

All the best,

 

Mark

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13 hours ago, gtis said:

Hi mark

i have a few problems with the track not been laid properly but I cope , I have 1 problem with a electric point not throwing over properly  but just check it before the loco runs over it

I am still wiring a couple of controllers up

No other photos yet but I have a few videos 

but I can’t upload them too big

I have a few on tweeter 

found a few more photos ,the first is one i repainted and the second is before I put the engine shed in

Neil

38B075D4-9C35-42A7-AA83-2784CD1BED29.jpeg

7084E8C2-3D36-4487-8653-CECDC1B16889.jpeg

312A3710-2C09-4024-8A77-5249D8BBA2CC.jpeg

 

Hi Neil,

 

thank you for the additional photos - all great stuff! You've shown what can be done with the locomotives, and it's given me some confidence to "have a go". The N2 that I picked up is certainly rough around the edges, and would spruce up well, I think. Of course, I wouldn't consider doing that to a rarity, or even a really nicely preserved original.

 

I do like the layout, very much of it's era.

 

Thanks again!

 

Mark

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11 hours ago, sagaguy said:

I wouldn`t worry about a few paint chips,These items can be 50 or 60 years old.There is plenty of reasonable condition stock on the web,i suggest JWmodel railways,he has some pretty good stock.Don`t start bending tabs,you`ll scratch the paint finish.Locos are a another kettle of fish,being old,they do suffer from being playworn but with a repaint of badly scuffed paint,they can be refinished as in the pics here.It all depends on how far you want to go.Also a reasonble view of part of my layout.

 

                        Ray.

20180922_224422.jpg

bradford 1.jpg

20190611_230501.jpg

20191026_153051.jpg

 

 

Hi Ray,

 

many thanks for your post - also fantastic stuff!

 

As with @gtis Neil's post above, your locos have inspired me to have a go at restoring my N2. The're absolutely stunning, if I may say so, and I particularly like the 2-6-4T! How have you brought up the motion so brightly?

 

I agree with you about the paint chips on rolling stock - if they're not too unsightly. But, and always assuming that the item in question isn't a particular rarity or isn't already in very good to near perfect condition, I was interested in knowing if it were possible to sympathetically restore rolling stock. For instance, there are a few vans on eBay at the moment whose lithograph sides and ends appear to have survived in very nice condition, but whose rooves and underframes are a bit tatty (and sometimes quite knocked about!). In cases like those, it seems a shame that the delicate part has survived well and is let down by the painted parts. I do appreciate, of course, that even the most sympathetic restoration can and probably will detract from the item's value.

 

Your layout looks incredible! I'm thinking in terms of a small BLT as has become so prevalent in more recent years, but that is a marvel!

 

Thanks again!

 

Mark

 

EDIT: I meant to add that I've found JW Models' website - some lovely items on there!

 

 

Edited by 2996 Victor
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43 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said:

 

Hi Neil,

 

thank you for the additional photos - all great stuff! You've shown what can be done with the locomotives, and it's given me some confidence to "have a go". The N2 that I picked up is certainly rough around the edges, and would spruce up well, I think. Of course, I wouldn't consider doing that to a rarity, or even a really nicely preserved original.

 

I do like the layout, very much of it's era.

 

Thanks again!

 

Mark

Hi Mark

the two A4 started life as A4 silver kings I stripped the old paint off using oven pride

and then primed with Halfords grey primer

the blue is ford fjord blue and the black one

is Matt black got the transfers off eBay 

then sealed with Halfords Matt lacquer 

got two old A4 tenders of Ebay and did the

same as the bodies 

I have another body and tender to do That I might do in LMS red

Neil

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9 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

A late friend of mine Michael Carter, used to exhibit a H/D 3 rail Tinplate collection years ago. .I always feel the plastic bodied wagons don't work well with the lithographed tin ones. Its also difficult to match the H/D paint finish on Locos and impossible on rolling stock.  Repainted Wrenn bodies on 3 rail chassis always seems to Jar.

At speed the later SD6 coaches are a match for anything produced RTR today in the way the the light reflects on the sides and the near flush glazing, and the compensated bogies are streets ahead of the RTR rubbish we buy today.

I use the plastic bodied wagons with all sorts of locos , Hattojs , Bachmann, Hornby, Wren etc but have to stuff the non H/D locos with lead to pull a decent length train.

Apart from the black under frames the paint can't really be touched up.  Poundland spray satin black or Matt black are a good match for H/D black.

The tin bodies can be removed from their chassis if you carefully tease the tags straight, you can even re attach them if you are careful.  The plastic Vans have the body attached with a self tapping screw  and come off easily, the plastic open wagons and the die cast body 16T Mineral have the body attached by the coupling rivet which has to be drilled out and then you can't get new ones to rivet the body back on. I shorten the rivet to just hold the coupling and glue the body back on. 

You may find a lot of corroded 3 rail wheels and bent axles, and damaged 2 rail wheels. To remove the axles the body has to come off the 4 wheel wagons and the axle hanger tags carefully teased straight. Best to remove all 4 really.  Replacement  hangers are available but come in two types at least, round hole and elongated hole, ideally don't mix them.  

The 2 rail wheels wear out, axle ends wear into grooves.  3 rail wheels are direct replacements.   3 rail wheels can often be repaired by straightening the axle and then spinning them in a drill chuck against a piece of emery cloth or a file.  There are some Mazak ones highly prized which are rubbish because they disintegrate or get chipped flanges.   I have stripped a lot of tatty 3 rail tinplate wagons . I recondition the 3 rail wheels and stick them on eBay, fit 2 rail wheels and use the chassis for mainline or Bachmann bodies for my layout which uses H/D couplings.   

The Coach bogies have several versions, the later ones are compensated, and I have no idea how to change the wheels.  The earlier ones have a single hanger which had a tag which can be eased up without removing the bogies and the wheels dropped out.  Now I put Romford top hat pin point bushes in the hangers and file them flush. I can then fit H0 (Lima)  wheels, 00 axles are too long, and as Lima wheels are insulated one side I pick up power through the pin points for coach lighting.  They run beautifully.  I have them under all sorts of Mainline, Ratio, Triang etc bodies.

The SD6 coaches are beautiful but too short. They fade horribly so keep them in the dark, Also the roofs warp.  I had a brown one which started BR Crimson.

The BG stands comparison with the latest RTR.  I have one on my fish train.

H/D runs beautifully because the wheels are supported across point gaps by the flanges running on the bottom of the point flangeways .

The old Duchess is a pathetic performer as standard and greatly benefits from the Wrenn Duchess tender draw bar arrangement.  Mine used to manage 3 H/D coaches and now 2 railed and with modified drawbar pulls 8 up a 1 in 30, easily.

Watch the power unit, H/D controllers have a great overload cut out. Modern ones have crap polyswitches, and you can easily damage an armature with a heavy load at low speed.   If you get any rubbishy items stick them back on eBay cheap and I'll buy them to hack about for my layout!

 

Hi David,

 

many thanks for the many tips there: all extremely helpful, in particular about the tags on tinplate wagons - I was particularly concerned about trying to bend these up as I imagine they are quite delicate! Its surprising what sources there are - the Poundland paint, for instance. I was naturally thinking in terms of automotive paint, or even tamiya acrylic, although I would expect to need an etch primer? Do you strip the existing paint off first, or just carefully touch-in the chips?

 

Thank you for the pointers about releasing the axles - I could see the keepers were separate but hadn't worked out how they were fitted. Who is able to supply the replacement hangers, if (when!) I need some? I'm intending to stay with 3-rail and tinplate (which will limit my choice of coaches, of course), so the idea of chucking the wheels in a drill and burnishing them sounds useful, as the ones I've seen tend to be rusty-looking.

 

As far as the coupling rivets are concerned, I would have thought that brass rivets might be available, even if not to exactly the same pattern, which could be substituted. Similarly with the bogie pivots, which could also be replaced with small brass bolts, I suppose.

 

So far, I'm hoping I've not got any rubbishy items coming,, but I'll let you know!

 

Thanks again,

 

Mark

 

 

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4 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

 

There shouldn't be any problem doing up an N2 tank (I assume she's one of the 'cycling lion' versions - the later ones with the 'ferret' are a different case) as they are common and inexpensive. (Spares like the 3 rail pick up and the front coupling can cost more than a complete locomotive!) What I called the SD6 (Super Detail 6*) period would start with the release of the plastic grain wagon  (I can remember shooting off to the local toy shop with 6/9d in my hot little hand to buy one of the first batch - 1957 IIRC.)

The LNER,  ER ,  the first issue of the suburban coaches (D13) and the goods brake vans had printed windows. All the others had proper windows, although they didn't bother with glazing for the T.P.O. and the brake vans.

 

No suburban coaches in chocolate and cream. They might have been planned, as I gather they were drawn up pre-war but had to wait until 1954 to see the light of day with the 2-6-4T. There are green ones however.

 

The elastic band would explain the lack of fixing in the ones offered for sale as it will have perished long since. A piece of Meccano green cord as used for the cable drum and cranes would have been better.

 

* I've no idea why '6' though.

 

Hi David,

 

many thanks for your reply.

 

Yes, the N2 is a Cycling Lion one, so knowing that's not a rarity, I'll feel happier giving it a bit of a make-over! Shame about the coaches, but I'm not really surprised. How is re-liverying tired ones viewed? Dimly, I would have thought! Although, presumably, with common/badly damaged items, it wouldn't be quite such an issue.....

 

Also, thanks for clarifying "SD6" for me - this is a steep learning curve, it has to be said, although I've ordered the "bible" as you recommended.

 

Interesting about the tractor load, and how it was retained. As my low-sided is really quite scruffy and also common, I might cut my teeth on that one, and see how I get on!

 

Thanks again,

 

Mark

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4 hours ago, Sarahagain said:

The low sided wagon was sold on its own, as well as with the Furniture Container (maroon), the Isul-meat Container (white), and the Dublo Dinky Tractor (blue).

 

The Tractor had no location device, apart from a rubber band.

 

The Cable Drum Low Sided wagon, incidentally, has a different body, with ridges for the drums, and holes for the load retaining string. (There are at least two versions...)

 

SD6 refers to the Super Detail range, the plastic body wagons, and the Pullman and MK 1 coaches with plastic roofs, also the associated "Suburban" coaches.

 

Hi Sarah,

 

Thanks for the info on the low-sided wagons - I've seen a few on eBay with their container loads, but invariably, they've been quite badly damaged down the years. Not found a tractor yet! How were the containers retained?

 

Among my Dad's wagons that he had had as a boy was one of the cable drum wagons. I remember the drums were held on by string, somehow, but this was forty-plus years ago! I do remember that the paper covering on the sides of the drums had come unstuck from the wooden cores, though!

 

3 hours ago, Sarahagain said:

RE: SD6.

 

I wonder if it was looking forward, to 1960?

 

A range for the '60s?

 

Or, were there originally going to be 6 models? Less likely??

 

Cable Drum Wagons...

 

Later versions use an elasticated black string, rather than the traditional green string.

 

The green string was also used on the cranes, Breakdown,  goods shed, and Dinky goods yard crane.

 

Actually, Dad's cable drum wagon may have had elasticated string, but I'm really not sure.

 

Thanks again,

 

Mark

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22 minutes ago, gtis said:

Hi Mark

the two A4 started life as A4 silver kings I stripped the old paint off using oven pride

and then primed with Halfords grey primer

the blue is ford fjord blue and the black one

is Matt black got the transfers off eBay 

then sealed with Halfords Matt lacquer 

got two old A4 tenders of Ebay and did the

same as the bodies 

I have another body and tender to do That I might do in LMS red

Neil

 

Hi Neil,

 

many thanks for the extra info!

 

Interesting how you stripped off the old paint - I would never have thought of that! I did wonder about soaking in cellulose thinners, and of course there's NitroMors, but that may be a bit too astringent. Did you use an etch primer or just their normal one?

 

For transfers, I was looking at Fox Transfers and the like, but I'll scout eBay first!

 

Thanks again and best regards,

 

Mark

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