Changing Bogie Moulded D Couplings

[Sir TophamHatt]

Hello

 

Have some older Hornby stock. Want to change the D coupling to a Kadee.

 

Could be straight forward but the coupling is moulded as part of the bogie so I can't screw it off and replace.

 

I'm trawling through the info on this but most posts seem to refer to those D couplings that can be screwed off.

 

The aim is purely ease of uncoupling. Not particularly fussed about close coupling.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Sir TophamHatt

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Hack off the D excrescences. Body mount the Kadee no 5 (or the more recent body mounting types) on a pillar cemented or screwed to the underside of the floor.

[doctor quinn]

Agreed but with one small difference, use long shank HO Kadees if the vehicles have buffers.
 

 

Kadee’s website has this guide https://www.kadee.com/coupler.htm

 

Here’s one I did earlier 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by doctor quinn
Add image typo

[DCB]

Hack off the D and turn the bogie round, there is more plastic to screw or glue the coupling socket to.  Body mounting couplings is OK but doesn't work too well below 3rd radius in my experience.  Even keeping tension lock couplers I cut off the moulded D turn the bogie round and fit an older screw on coupler for closer coupling, as standard most Hornby gets round 13" radius which is pretty ridiculous.

[Il Grifone]

The tight radius goes way back. The original Rovex set shows signs of having been copied from the pre-war Trix Twin  'Princess', short coaches and track radius (13½").

 

My cure for bogie mounted tension locks involves a beefy pair of side cutters! The replacement coupling is then mounted either on the body (short stock* and/or reasonable radii only) or on the  bogie (it may require a  new mounting).

 

* I'm in the process of replacing X2f** couplings with Kadees on my North American H0 stock. 40' and 50' vehicles get body mounted couplings, but longer cars I think will need them mounted on the bogies as they are required to negotiate 3rd radius curves.

I am still undecided about British stock. Buckeye couplings should be mounted in the headstock and the buffers get in the way. Either the buffers have to be short (as on MkI stock etc. - the solution adopted by Hornby Dublo) or the distance between vehicles has to be too great.

 

** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charonosaurus#/media/File:Charonosaurus-v3.jpg

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

3 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

...I am still undecided about British stock. Buckeye couplings should be mounted in the headstock and the buffers get in the way. Either the buffers have to be short (as on MkI stock etc. - the solution adopted by Hornby Dublo) or the distance between vehicles has to be too great...

The real problem IMO is the slack the buckeyes require to operate. The obsolete side buffers on Pullman gangwayed RTR stock are now typically in the properly retracted position, or if sprung can be fixed retracted with a collar over the rear of the buffer shank so that's no problem, but there is still the unattractive loose coupling effect from the slack. It really does need the centre buffer action that the lower part of the gangway faceplate provides in reality. Still thinking about this one for my headstock mounted Kadees, which look very good on train ends, but don't provide the 'whole train moves as one piece' effect that I really want, as achieved within my gangwayed trains using the Roco type coupler (and also available from other equivalent 'rigid bar' coupler designs).

 

 

Love the 'charonosoarus coupler'. Take a major HOHO award that man...

[Sir TophamHatt]

I think new bogies (with NEM pockets) may be the way.

 

 

The problem is that if I body mount, it's too high. I'd rather use the Kadees I have rather than buy yet more of them, that means kadee #146.

 

If I bogie mount, it's okay but it's only the end of the pocket that I can glue (not sure if a screw will be possible) to the coach body. I can't push it back any more because of a black bar on bogie, so the gap will be quite large by the looks of it.

 

If I turn the bogie round, means I have to hack off a small bit on the top that fits into a little groove on the underside of the body.

 

Basically, I've ruined a bogie trying this out.

And people wonder why people don't "model" like this anymore... 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Sir TophamHatt

[DCB]

Contrary to the posts above I have yet to find a RTR coach with buffers in the retracted position.  Even in the extended position the buffer heads are still behind the buffing plate.  Few if any RTR buffers look anything like the Mk1 (or Mk2) stock buffers.  They have only a short tapered shank protruding beyond the end of the frame and quite a large diameter ram then the smaller diameter buffer shank, which has a removable 5" long spacer.  (See pic and drawing.)   Most RTR BR Mk1 models have an ordinary screw coupled buffer assembly which approximates to an extended Mk1 stock buffer.

You can only achieve close coupling and still get around reasonable curves by representing the buffers in the retracted position.

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by DavidCBroad

[BR60103]

I've just done (and had done) a couple of bogies on the older LNER coaches. There were 2 different ones.

One bogie (sleeping car) required a slot cut into the bolster to take the Kadee box (razor saw). I had to use a low-mount variant because of the height.

On a Gresley bogie, I needed to use a side cutter in the motor tool to make a flat space long enough for the box. I think this took a regular #5.

Both boxes were screwed to the bogie with 2-56 bolt and nut.

A bit at the bottom of the buffer beam was removed, but I don't know if this was really necessary.

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

9 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Contrary to the posts above I have yet to find a RTR coach with buffers in the retracted position...

 

You can only achieve close coupling and still get around reasonable curves by representing the buffers in the retracted position.

I have been carelessly overlooking that since the introduction of Bachmann's mk1s. Project 'retract buffers on Bachmann mk1s' now takes up position on the things to do list.

 

But fortunately this doesn't impede close coupling if we use the handy cheat of the camming coupler mount on current product. No good for the original enquiry though, unless a rebuild using Keen or Ribu parts to add this capability is acceptable.

[doctor quinn]

20 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

I think new bogies (with NEM pockets) may be the way.

 

 

The problem is that if I bogie mount, it's too low. I'd rather use the Kadees I have rather than buy yet more of them, that means kadee #146.

 

If I body mount, it's okay but it's only the end of the pocket that I can glue (not sure if a screw will be possible)to the coach body. I can't push it back any more because of the bogie, so the gap will be quite large by the looks of it.

 

If I turn the bogie round, means I have to hack off a small bit on the top that fits into a little groove on the underside of the body.

 

Basically, I've ruined a bogie trying this out.

And people wonder why people don't "model" like this anymore... 

Can you post a pic of that from the underside? You’ve got a long shank center-set coupler so you should be able to mount it further back so that the “palm” of the knuckle is slightly ahead of the buffers.

[frobisher]

21 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

I think new bogies (with NEM pockets) may be the way.

 

 

This might be exactly what you're looking for, which is from Hornby's new MK1's - there's got to be a fighting chance it'll be a clip in replacement or close to it.

 

https://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x6949-mk1-coach-pickup-bogie-with-nem-socket.ir

 

 

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 25/04/2020 at 11:51, doctor quinn said:

Can you post a pic of that from the underside?

 

Here:

 

 

I was wrong, the Kadee IS attached to the bogie but it means if I need to do so properly, I'll only have the very edge to glue, which I'm not sure will hold that well.

[phil-b259]

While I don’t use Kadee couplers, I have hacked round those ‘old school’ bogies with massive couplers so I can glue on miniature tension lock couplers (the Bachmann cranked ones that come with their MK1s being quite useful for getting the height near enough for my use.

 

What I did was cut away the vertical face on the bogie end to create a slot for the coupler and straighten up any chamfered bits between the side and the top of the bogie by the use of slots cut for the purpose.

 

I then simply glued the mini tension lock on the underside of the bogies with the coupler poking through the ‘slot’ cut in the bogie end described above.

 

You may well be able to do something similar with Kadees