Hornby 68' (ex Dapol) Restaurant Car & Keen Systems close coupling

[melmerby]

Hi all

Has anybody fitted the Keen close coupling units to the LMS 68' Restaurant car?

Having built up the cut away solebars and lowered the too high ride height I wanted to add close coupling.

Keen say in their instructions that they can be fitted to the restaurant car so I bought a pack of the close couplers but looking at what is required, I'm not sure how to proceed.

There doesn't seem to be enough chassis to cut away without it completely falling apart.

Any ideas?

 

EDIT I suppose I could narrow the Close Coupler base a few mm by removing material from each side, that might do it.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by melmerby

[melmerby]

Result

One wrecked coach

Cutting enough floor away to fit the Keen close coupling cam, even after slimming it down left so litle plastic that the chassis just broke in two.

My carefully filled in modded solebars were also wrecked before the chassis broke

So the coach is basically scrap. What a waste of effort.

The Cam looks like it's meant to sit under the floor of the coach but in that position the wheels are fouled badly

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by melmerby

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Might it be workable with the camming mechanism above the floor and guide/coupler mount protruding down through a slot in the floor? Fair amount of work, but since you have the camming mechanism and bogies you could try a 'proof of concept' with a new 2mm thick plasticard floor, with this kit mounted on it.

 

There must be a limit for such mechanisms, determined by the combination of overall vehicle length and curve radius, below which such a mechanism cannot work because the coupler mount displacement to the side will eventually foul the side of the vehicle. And I will leave it to some keen type to plot the limit curve...

Edited May 1, 2020 by 34theletterbetweenB&D
to incorporate an obvious pun

[melmerby]

I think the problem I have ended up with is that the Dapol derived restaurant car rides too high on bogies with 14mm wheels.

The Keen Unit is meant to stick under the floor and clear of the wheels as far as I can see, at which the coupling mount would be the right height, however if you drop the coach to a more reasonable height, there is no clearance for the wheels under the Keen unit

Cutting the floor away and using the unit as part replacement for the floor does the job but the coupling mount is now at the wrong height (I'm not sure why)

 

Fortunately I have managed a bodge repair on the chassis, using the Keen unit as part of the superstructure and it is holding together.

I think It will be OK in the end but is a bit of a hack, stick & fill job.

Not as easy as the man on the Keen stand suggested.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by melmerby

[BR60103]

When Dapol sold the car, they supplied 2 chassis -- with and without the cutouts. You might be able to find a spare at a show, someday.

[kandc_au]

Have you tried contacting Keens with some pics?
From what I have seen here (RM Web) a lot of guys cut out the floor to fit it from memory so it doesn't sit to low.
Khris
 

[teeinox]

A cautionary tale.  I too have been converting a LMS 68' diner to take a CCU with NEM sockets in order to use the Hornby/Roco close-couplers.  I really didn't fancy the idea of cutting a large hole in the floor to accomodate the Keen base plate.  So I used an adaption of the Hornby X6194 CCU kit designed for their 12-wheel pullmans.  There were still clearance problems, but soluable ones.  And the only thing I had to butcher was the drawbar in the kit, plus change the centre axle in the bogie for a 12.1 mm one to avoid flange contact with the drawbar.

 

teeinox

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, teeinox said:

A cautionary tale.  I too have been converting a LMS 68' diner to take a CCU with NEM sockets in order to use the Hornby/Roco close-couplers.  I really didn't fancy the idea of cutting a large hole in the floor to accomodate the Keen base plate.  So I used an adaption of the Hornby X6194 CCU kit designed for their 12-wheel pullmans.  There were still clearance problems, but soluable ones.  And the only thing I had to butcher was the drawbar in the kit, plus change the centre axle in the bogie for a 12.1 mm one to avoid flange contact with the drawbar.

 

teeinox

Mine's on the back burner at the mo

I will probably make a new close coupling unit out of various bits of plastic card. I've already made a replacement cam for one unit which just would not work properly.

That way I can also include a NEM pocket to use the Roco close coupler

[teeinox]

The conversion has been really successful.  I'll be posting how I got on.  Done the write-up, got to do the photos.  Probably after Xmas.

 

teeinox