Great Train Robbery - Travelling Post Office

[RBTKraisee]

I'd like to put a rake together to model the 1963 Great Train Robbery.

 

To start, I can get a Farish Class 40 with the split head code and repaint that to match D326.

 

But I'm not sure what types - and numbers - of coaches  featured on that particularly historic Travelling Post Office rake and haven't been able to find any specific references.

 

As for modelling options, I know Farish used to have a 3-car Travelling Post Office set of NSX, NEX & NJX coaches, so I'm looking for one of those to get things started, but I'd guess I need more than just those three.   A 2013 post on another forum suggested a BG and a few GUV coaches might be appropriate, some follow-ups suggest BG's either end and no GUV's.   But nobody there was modelling this particular train, so I just don't know

 

And before I forget - what would the livery have looked like in 1963?

 

I'd appreciate any advice I might glean from those who know much more about these things than I do!

 

Thanks,

 

Ross.

Edited May 23, 2020 by RBTKraisee

[Guest Half-full]

A bit of a macabre train to model, but I believe it was the West Coast postal(?) which typically consisted of 12 vehicles - MK1 passenger coaches and a BG, with the actual mail coaches being ex LMS vehicles.  Livery was maroon with appropriate Royal Mail branding

[RBTKraisee]

Yeah, a bit of an oddity to model, but I think it would make for an interesting, and fairly unique diorama.   Need a tiny Phil Collins model... ;)

 

Passenger coaches?   I hadn't seen any mention of passengers being involved, or even inconvenienced, by the robbery.   I know the thieves drove the train a few miles down the track after they hijacked it, but I'm sure such weird behaviour would have had a few passengers peering out the windows and seeing things going down.   If there were passenger coaches on this train might they have been out of service, being relocated from Glasgow down to London for the following day's activities?

 

And thanks for the livery info!

 

Ross.

[great central]

Someone did a diarama of the scene several years ago, possibly around 2013 which would have been the 50th anniversary?

It was housed in a black tent at shows if I remember correctly.

I seem to remember it being on this forum so a search may find it, I don't seem to be able to find what I'm looking for on searches.

 

Edit, at that time mail trains mostly ran exclusively for mail I believe

Edited May 24, 2020 by great central
Add last paragraph

[Guest Half-full]

1 hour ago, great central said:

Edit, at that time mail trains mostly ran exclusively for mail I believe

You are right there, I was looking at formations for the Scottish Section, details here.

 

A bit of googling has thrown up the full formation...

 

M31016M - Full Brake (BG)

M30204M - Sorting (POS)

M30289M - Sorting (POS)

M30235M - Sorting (POS)

M30220M - Sorting (POS)

M30277M - Sorting (POS)

M30214M - Sorting (POS)

M30210M - Bag Tender (POT)

M30275M - Bag Tender (POT)

M30272M - Sorting (POS)

M30247M - Sorting (POS)

M30276M - Brake Bag Tender (BPOT)

 

All ex LMS vehicles

 

 

[doilum]

2 hours ago, great central said:

Someone did a diarama of the scene several years ago, possibly around 2013 which would have been the 50th anniversary?

It was housed in a black tent at shows if I remember correctly.

I seem to remember it being on this forum so a search may find it, I don't seem to be able to find what I'm looking for on searches.

 

Edit, at that time mail trains mostly ran exclusively for mail I believe

Luton Model Railway Club . Circa 2013. I saw it at Telford.

[Metr0Land]

A bit more here:

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Well the train make up makes it clear enough, just the class 40 and LMS BG available in RTR, kit or scratch building for all the rest.

[Derekl]

6 hours ago, RBTKraisee said:

Passenger coaches?   I hadn't seen any mention of passengers being involved, or even inconvenienced, by the robbery.   I know the thieves drove the train a few miles down the track after they hijacked it, but I'm sure such weird behaviour would have had a few passengers peering out the windows and seeing things going down.   If there were passenger coaches on this train might they have been out of service, being relocated from Glasgow down to London for the following day's activities?

 

The thieves stopped the train at a red signal by inserting a battery into the red light circuit, a practice one of them had perfected for train robberies on the Brighton line. He was known to the police for those activities and was thus traced shortly afterwards, providing information as to others in the gang. Once stopped, the thieves uncoupled the BG from the rest of the train and had the driver move the locomotive and BG forward to a bridge where they could access the BG from the adjacent road. Following uncoupling, the BR driver of the Class 40 had difficulty recreating vacuum, so one of the gang coshed him (an injury from which he never fully recovered) and one of their own took his place (an ex BR driver, I think) and managed to move the train forward.

 

Personally, I am not sure that I would wish to pay homage to this event, but too each his own, I suppose...

[Sir TophamHatt]

1 hour ago, Derekl said:

Personally, I am not sure that I would wish to pay homage to this event, but too each his own, I suppose...

 

A lot of Railway people seem to get highly offended by the subject. I understand it was awful but people concentrate on the events around the driver rather than the robbery as a whole.

 

Perhaps it's not "paying homage" but rather allowing people to remember.

 

Like Warner Bros not taking the racist stuff out of cartoons. They put a message at the beginning but by editing it out, they're pretending like it never happened. By continuing to keep it in, it's a reminder of how stupid people were back then.

I guess like the people in 100 years time will say about us.

[russ p]

I wouldn't show the model at public exhibitions as close relatives of David Whitby the secondman are still around 

David's story is seldom told but to be honest its probably more tragic than Jack mills one

 

https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/history/sister--great-train-robbery-5680804

[RBTKraisee]

17 hours ago, Half-full said:

You are right there, I was looking at formations for the Scottish Section, details here.

 

A bit of googling has thrown up the full formation...

 

M31016M - Full Brake (BG)

M30204M - Sorting (POS)

M30289M - Sorting (POS)

M30235M - Sorting (POS)

M30220M - Sorting (POS)

M30277M - Sorting (POS)

M30214M - Sorting (POS)

M30210M - Bag Tender (POT)

M30275M - Bag Tender (POT)

M30272M - Sorting (POS)

M30247M - Sorting (POS)

M30276M - Brake Bag Tender (BPOT)

 

All ex LMS vehicles

 

 

Thanks Half-full.   I got the same info from Brian Hallett at Railway Vehicle Preservations (73c on here suggested I make contact - cheers).   Brian told me that the coach numbers were collected in a policemans notebook that is preserved in the Thames Valley Police Museum.

 

He went on to mention that M30272M - Sorting (POS) is now preserved at the Nene Valley Railway and that he himself "...was part of the team that setup the group to restore M30272M many years ago, although I am no longer involved. We had a chap by the name of Bill Williams who was able to gain access to the Thames Valley archives, not normally accessible to the public, and he was able to do some extensive research into the robbery. This resulted in him writing a short booklet called "Hold up at Sears Crossing", produced by the NVR at a price of £6.95, which is now well out of print. The archive contained many interesting artefacts from the gang's Monopoly board, the policeman's note book (as mentioned) and hand bills from the train itself dated 8th August 1963".

 

He gave me permission to pass all this info along to the forum here.

 

As for the subject being a bit morbid, yes, that's true, but the fact remains that it is still one of the more significant events in history involving the British railway system.   I'm building this in Florida so there's hardly any chance of any family members of the victims ever seeing it, but I think I'll spend some more time making sure to make the overall display send the right message of respect for the victims and paying tribute to them and all those who helped capture the criminals.   If I can get that tone correct, I think it will make for a good model.

 

Ross.