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Caledonian Wagon Refurb. and more


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I am working with a friend to refurbish some second hand pre-group Scottish wagons.

 

First up is this CR wagon:

 

P1010017.JPG.134847e57a49917ca0dcbbdd07ab15a0.JPG

 

The body is plastic but underframe components are WM.  Not sure about the wheels they appear old to me.  They rely on the WM axleboxes for bearing.

 

I already removed the horrid solid WM buffers.  I have some CR sprung buffers.  The coupling was bent over and glued to the buffer beam.  That will be replaced with a good set of sprung 3 links.

 

The axles were way off square and I have agonised the W irons into the correct position, securing with epoxy.

 

I'd like to know more about this wagon.  Also what kit it came from.

 

The sides are planked but the inside is plain - so I want to detail that:

 

P1010018.JPG.94a6f3e2296852afa31d5529b576536e.JPG

 

Hopefully someone can confirm the appearance.  My first guess would be unpainted planks.  If that is so, I can do a lamination with 0.5mm scribed card.

 

I also want to do a sub floor since the model is plain:

 

P1010019.JPG.b7e82a6f7226799a395bab3fd23f31bc.JPG

 

Any other info, such as lettering, would be useful.  I have the HMRS Scottish transfer set.

 

Thanks

 

John

Edited by brossard
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Finding wagons like this in second hand Sales is always exciting, I find, and making a dodgy wagon useable is a satisfying challenge.  Ideally they turn up at bric-a-brac fairs for around the price of a set of wheels.

 

I’m not sure how vital it is to spring couplings, I think we modellers tend to spring them more softly than is ideal, and RTR models seem to have ridiculously soft springs.  I now tend to shorten the coupling, and use a bit of rubber tube In place of the spring.

 

Billy at Premier can supply steel coupling hooks, and Graham at NMRS has an excellent range of buffers.

 

atb

Simon

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Hi Simon.  I expect you are right.  However, I have set a standard for sprung buffers and couplings for my wagon builds.  As I mentioned I do have couplings and buffers, from, Invertrain.

 

Dapol couplings do seem to be crazy soft, Terrier especially, so I will need to have a think about that.

 

I do like to see buffers compress in action.

 

My friend ( the other one) brought his Dapol 14XX round for test last week (brill. model btw).  When coupling the autocoach, the buffers needed compressing in order to couple.

 

John

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Like Simond, I think the resurrection of a second hand kit is quite good fun.

 

I look for the nearest 'southern' wagon I can morph it into.

 

I am also not a fan of sprung couplings.... but that's just me.

 

Out of interest the solebar seems to be a steel underframe?  Is that a moulding?

 

Thanks

 

Ernie

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Hi Ernie, agree that resurrecting previously near dead wagons is very satisfying.  I've done it several times.

 

The body, including solebars appears to be plastic as far as I can tell.  There are whitemetal angles to which the WM W irons were screwed.  It is very light.

 

The model's current appearance is not very convincing to me.  I'm looking for pictures and info on the prototype.

 

John

 

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Two possibilities would be a D15 or a D87. 

 

D15 would be wood underframe and scotch brake, if the bottom web of that girder is removed and crown plates fitted it would look more like it.

 

The D87 was built on both wood and steel steel underframes, but the lower web would be much thinner and they had morton brakes 

 

Both, as ever with the Caley showed many variations 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks DJ, I know almost nothing about these, so your advice moves me forward.  There was a brake lever and guide taped to the underside.  D15 sounds like what I have.  What is a Scotch brake? (told you I was a numpty).  I'm told it is a pig iron wagon, hence the bolsters.

 

Something puzzling me is the two levers on either side tucked against the solebar.  They don't seem to do anything but in pictures of various wagons that I have found, they could be attached to a brake shoe.

 

I don't suppose you have built one of these.

 

John

 

Edit:  BTW, I have been through your blog.  Superb work.  I note your D15 build, unfortunately mostly obscured by a tarp.  Still, I can discern solebar detail so I will have a go at that with some plastic strip.

 

 

Edited by brossard
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Scotch brake is the simple long lever moving a single brake shoe. Fitted single side as built, some ended up with them both sides. Wheelbase would be 9 foot, usually with split spoke wheels. Some had the number painted on the ends as well. ( Most had the R upright, but I never got on with pressfix) . The buffers would generally be red , not black. 

 

472322831_CRD15JPG.JPG.fcbf00941c5c3dc2549ae83370be4a8f.JPG

Edited by Dave John
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1 minute ago, Dave John said:

Scotch brake is the simple long lever moving a single brake shoe. Fitted single side as built, some ended up with them both sides. Wheelbase would be 9 foot, usually with split spoke wheels. Some had the number painted on the ends as well. ( Most had the R upright, but I never got on with pressfix) . The buffers would generally be red , not black. 

 

472322831_CRD15JPG.JPG.fcbf00941c5c3dc2549ae83370be4a8f.JPG

When did the last single blockers disappear?

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The BOT ruling that wagons had to have brakes on both sides was applied to new build from 1911. However an allowance of 20 years was made for existing wagons, so many survived into the grouping with a single brake. 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the pics Dave.  That gives me guidance on setting the brakes.

 

Now, was the interior unpainted planks?

 

I prefer waterslide transfers, much more forgiving.

 

John

Edited by brossard
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Good morning. Having been inspired by this thread I did some browsing and found a 1952 picture of E971539. A NB open, roofed to carry sand. Looks to be in good order and seems to have the single block brake. 

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Some had unpainted planks internally as built, others may have been red oxide. Internal ironwork would be black when new. Generally white tyres when new though photos show that it didn't last long.

 

I have gone over to methfix , but that wagon is 25 years old. 

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Thanks Dave.  My experience with opens is that they were, in the main, unpainted wood internally.  Steel construction would have been different but I don't know how to tell.  Was the wagon pictured above wood inside?  I'm leaning towards wood for this.

 

I will leave the tyres white but weathering will tone that down a lot.

 

I only recently sussed that Methfix don't require methyl alcohol but some variation of methyl hydrate.  :fie:

 

John 

 

 

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The 1897 description as quoted in the Jim MacIntosh volume on livery is; vans internally had 1 coat of stone colour and opens 1 coat of lead colour. 

 

How long that would last in service is anyones guess but for opens the weathered/worn look would be grey in tone and not brick red.

 

John

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That is interesting John, thanks.  I will go with grey.  You just reminded me I have a copy of  E.F. Carter's Britains Railway Liveries.  However, CR doesn't get a lot of coverage, and what there is focuses on locos and coaches.

 

John

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On 24/08/2020 at 13:48, brossard said:

That is interesting John, thanks.  I will go with grey.  You just reminded me I have a copy of  E.F. Carter's Britains Railway Liveries.  However, CR doesn't get a lot of coverage, and what there is focuses on locos and coaches.

 

John

 

The CR Wagons book by Mike WIlliams suggests that it may have been common practice to leave the interior unpainted. This is due to the lack of interior photographs and of course those that do exist are in black & white. Unpainted wood takes on a grey tone and even if painted with a lead grey, that would have a similar look after a time.  I have worked on the basis that wagon interiors would vary from a fairly clean wood effect, weathered, to a dirtier more grey appearance. 

 

IMG_5048.jpeg.64c4b39093b7945c9573e424a818ad78.jpeg

 

IMG_5085.jpeg.770d9468100ecf908fc199fe3e8cb324.jpeg

 

John

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You make excellent points John.  I was working on the interior yesterday and, sigh, painted it grey.  As I mentioned, I think most open wagons had bare wood interiors and I do like the look of yours.  So, back to the drawing board.  Progress is somewhat slow because I'm juggling other projects.

 

John

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I have finished the CR wagon and six others.  These were bought 2nd hand and badly done IMO, but then I'm a self confessed snob when it comes to kit builds.

 

First the CR wagon:

 

P1010025.JPG.e12c1913c6474ad09fbd3056906c69e0.JPG

 

Compare to the pic above.  My photos always seem to come out dark no matter what I do.

 

First I made an interior with scribed 0.5mm plastic sheet and added interior strapping.

 

I made strap hinges from plastic rod.

 

The solebar was detailed with plastic strip and cut down brass washers.  Horse hook added with wire.

 

There is bolt detail although it is hard to see.  I used Archer transfers for this.

 

Also note the corner chains.

 

Scotch brake cobbled up.

 

I do like the buffers with a web to the outside.  I painted these bauxite.  Buffer head wear done with a silver pencil.

 

I did find a HMRS photo of a Pig Iron wagon and got some help with details from that.  It was difficult because the HMRS logo was plastered over it and I’m too cheap to actually buy the pic.

 

P1010026.JPG.a5cda0cf1409a1dc97ae783db4ecfe8c.JPG

 

I only now noticed the lettering is in different places.  The main problem with these was excessive wheel slop.  I added washers to the axles so that is much improved.

 

New sprung buffers installed.

 

I renewed the ring hinges.

 

P1010027.JPG.0863640f7e0e1b3fe9cac1e18e2e2366.JPG

 

I replaced the WM buffers with steel but retained the wire spring.

 

Strapping done with a Sharpie.

 

Interior painted as well.

 

The brake lever guides are a bit knocked about but I have seen pictures of this.

 

P1010028.JPG.2d8340d6c2f17e7992fc688e2be20ead.JPG

 

Apart from buffers, nothing much was need on this van.  This was actually built reasonably well.  The only thing was it was painted green rather than grey.

 

P1010029.JPG.a173613331225a5312ec9009b015e7ce.JPG

 

Again wheels needed shimming.  Ring hinges replaced and interior painted.

 

P1010030.JPG.3287331e3235a72780bcd685523a7455.JPG

 

Open cask wagon.

 

I did repaint this including floor.  I replaced the wire sprung buffers with reworked Parkside buffers.  The base was rectangular not round.  Strapping done with Sharpie. 

 

I would have liked to add more lettering but I lost patience with the HMRS Pressfix.

 

Solebar detail added.

 

All in all a fairly satisfying result but a lot of work.  Some parts fell off spontaneously or broke so that was tedious.

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It's a black fine point Sharpie Ernie, not the chisel point.  I use a piece of plastic card to help guide me.

 

I have used tiny blobs of PVA to represent rivets/bolts in the past, something I got from Barry Norman.  Archer are easier.

 

John

Edited by brossard
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