A fancy 3-some.... Peco SL-E99 (again)

[Grande Maurice]

Evening all. I hope everyone's surviving the Coronacoaster....!?!**19*?!!

 

I humbly apologise for raising this item again, as i'm sure it has been raised before (but damned if i can find it). I've searched YouTube and Google but not found an answer, or at least not an answer i can understand.

 

In short i have a new Peco SL-E99 3-way electro-frog point to install. It's my first 3-way (ooh matron). I've adapted all my other more typical Peco points for improved DCC running by soldering across the main rails and hauling out the fine connecting wires installed by Peco (plenty of good tutorials for this on YouTube). However there are no clear and convincing tutorials for the Peco 3-way. I've seen fellow modellers advise on soldering wires across the 3 main rails but with no clear information on which of the Peco-installed wires need to be removed, and exactly which rails need to be connected with new wires. 

 

Based on what i've seen on YouTube so far i've made my own speculative diagram but i really need advice and confirmation before doing this or i'll wreck £38 worth of points. I've assumed that i need to haul out all the Peco wires and then install 2 sections of wire, each bridging the 3 main running rails.

 

I guess my questions are:

1). Can this 3-way point be adapted for improved DCC running (as other Peco points)?

2). If the answer to no.1 is YES then do i need to remove all the Peco cabling to the rear? 

3). If the answer to no.1 and no.2 is YES then which rails do i then need to solder new wires to?

4). Does this alteration affect the way i need to wire the point to the motors, or is it still the same prescribed approach?

 

If anyone can post a diagram (or direct to me one) of what to do, and which rails to connect (with some supporting advice), then i'd be truly grateful - as i'm sure will plenty of other modellers who've yet to flirt with the dangerous beauty of the 3-way. 

 

If i can get good advice on this then i'll try and make a definitive clear video for YouTube on how to wire these exotic beasts.

[MalcT]

Hi,

 

This could be useful:

https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/dcc-advice-11-wiring-pointwork-and-special-track-condition

 

see page 7

 

Malc

[Grovenor]

Unfortunately that is a different type of turnout. The suggested wiring on the underside view looks wrong to me, pretty sure it will short out.

With a pic of the topside I could suggest a workable scheme.

[BMS]

After several weeks of battling with this point I have solved it - at least for myself.

The problem in any case is inhibiting a short between the switch rails controlled by both motors when the first point is routed to the right, and the second motor is trying to go to the left (as viewed from above)

 

I am using  a pair of DCC Concepts DCC Cobalt motors. So i have insufficient power switches to follow the Analogue, non-dcc fitted wiring. as I have separate  DCC Buses for point and train.

 

Solution is a micro-switch at the first tie-bar.

This is wired so that when the first motor is going to the right then NO power is on the second point rails.

When the first motor is set to the left, effectively passing traffic to either of the second point routes. then the second motor common power terminal is selected allowing it to apply power to either route as appropriate.

So the microswitch common contact is wired to the third frog (the left-hand one)

 and the common from the second motor is connected to the micro switch contact that is active only when the first point is switched to the left.

Regarding the improvement to the wiring - I would strongly suggest proceeding with extreme caution on removing all the existing internal wiring -there are a large number of connections. However it may be possible to common up at the start of the point; but your red wires will NOT fully power the point and create shorts. 

Hope this helps - the peco silver small contacts are very vulnerable close to the tiebars, as your photo shows.

Edited August 29, 2020 by BMS
Unnecessary duplication of text

[Grande Maurice]

Hi Grosvenor. See image of the top of the rack as requested.  

I'm using Seep PM-1 point motors which i believe contain their own microswitch to resolve polarity.

[Grande Maurice]

Thanks for everyone's comments.

I've got the micro-switches sorted as i'm using Seep PM1 motors that have these integrated. 

 

I've been reading more articles online and found the answer which i thought i'd share to help others getting frustrated with this ill-fabled complex point. I've added a pdf copy of the article below, and i've added a PDF of the specific page for the electrofrog symmetrical 3-way point. 

 

I've also had some sound advise from Brian Lambert (thanks Brian) who rightly advises, as does the article i refer to, that these are tricky beasts and many modellers will run them using only singular dcc bus connections at the bottom of the two stock rails, and have no issues. However the switch rails will get tired and dirty over time and, despite the best cleaning efforts, they will conduct less current. I think it's more of a case of protecting for the future and not wanting to rip up scenic sections to rewire the failing points.

 

The only way to prevent this future problem is to bring direct dcc bus feeds from the outer stock rail (on each side) to the two inner closure rails (on each side), which then in turn power the switch rails. I've drawn a diagram of this which replicates what i found in the excellent article.  This is what i plan to do with mine.

 

There is a warning to go with this though, and that is to only attempt this if you trust your soldering skills. You'll need to carefully cut away the brown plastic from behind the closure rails, and snip a pair of short lengths off the Peco frog wire. From past experience on other Peco points i've modified, I plan to put a tiny dot of solder onto each part of track i aim to join, to help accept the new wire (rather than loading the iron tip with too much solder, as things can get messy very quickly). I'll then use tweezers to hold the wire in place hard against the first solder dot, and let the iron heat the wire up. As the small dot of solder starts to melt i push the wire down into it - and at which exact moment i remove the hot iron tip. Voila! If only it were that easy... Once you've got the wire secured straddling the three rails you can then push the current into the bottom two stock rails using rail joiners with droppers.

 

I think i may try and make a short video of this and if it all goes to plan i'll post it on YouTube. Wish me luck......

 

Wiring_for_dcc-Peco_points.pdf