Help with signalling on branch line terminus

[petejones]

Could you look over my current track plan and let me know if I have the signalling in order? The layout is set in the 1930s and I took my lead from two signalling diagrams - Cardigan and Newcastle Emlyn, both branch line termini set in West Wales. The diagram at Newcastle Emlyn is more complex than Cardigan in that there are five shunt signals, whereas there appear to be none at Cardigan. Any idea why?

 

Anyway, here is my track plan with the signals and points indicated by numbers (Note that I used colour light signal icons to represent shunt signals, for want of something better).

 

So here are the levers:

 

1. Spare (White)

2. Down Home Signal (Red) [off scene]

3. Point (Black)

4. Facing Point Lock (Blue)

5. Shunt Signal (Red)

6. Point (Black)

7. Up Starter Signal (Red)

8. Shunt Signal (Red)

9. Shunt Signal (Red)

10. Spare (White)

11. Spare (White)

12. Spare (White)

13. Point (Black)

14. Point (Black)

15. Up Home Signal (Red) [off scene]

16. Point (Black)

17. Shunt Signal (Red)

 

I went with 17 levers as (a) that's now many my model lever frame has and (b) it's the same number as Newcastle Emlyn.

 

Cheers

Pete

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 should probably be a Down Distant, although it might well be fixed and so not need a lever.

15 would be an advanced starter.

You only need three point levers, not four.

In many cases, the crossover for locos to run round is operated by a separate lever released by a lever in the box.

Positioning of your shunt signals looks rather doubtful.

Where the signalbox is suitably located (as it seems to be here), shunt signals can be dispensed with as the signalman can signal by hand.

[Nick Holliday]

6 hours ago, petejones said:

Could you look over my current track plan and let me know if I have the signalling in order? The layout is set in the 1930s and I took my lead from two signalling diagrams - Cardigan and Newcastle Emlyn, both branch line termini set in West Wales. The diagram at Newcastle Emlyn is more complex than Cardigan in that there are five shunt signals, whereas there appear to be none at Cardigan. Any idea why?

 

Cheers

Pete

Perhaps the difference is down to history.  The line to Cardigan, the Whitland and Cardigan Railway, struggled in its early days, and the GWR was heavily involved in its construction and operation, and took the line over completely in 1890. The line to Newcastle Emlyn, however, had a more successful start, eventually becoming part of the Manchester and Milford Railway, which wasn't absorbed by the Great Western until 1906. I realise that, over the years, GWR standardisation should have equalised matters, but often old habits can linger, especially when far from headquarters. Maybe the size or location of the signal box was a factor, too.

I'm not an expert on signalling, as the following will demonstrate, but I would have thought that you might need an inner home close to the heel of point 3, which could have two arms, at least, to control access into the goods yard and/or loop. Similarly you might need some form of starter for traffic from the goods yard, and I am uncertain whether there should be some form of trapping on the exit from the loop. However, the photos of both stations on the dis-used stations website are remarkably free of signalling, at least in later days, were the one engine in steam operations by then?

[Joseph_Pestell]

To know what format of Down Home signal you need, we need to know how the station functions. I would expect freight trains to run into the platform road so that the loco can be released for shunting. If this is indeed the case, your one lever for that Home signal is correct. But there may still need to be a ground signal (or a shunt arm on the home signal's post) for when the train is being shunted if the driver can not see the signalman waving his flag.

[The Stationmaster]

A fairly good staring point in the diagram but some changes are needed to 'GWRify' it.

 

A.  You need a stop signal, No.2,  (which will be the Home Signal) at the toe of the facing point for arriving trains in the running line (point end No.6 ).   (The GWR used fixed distants approaching branch termini so never any need for a distant signal lever although a former independent company might have used a worked distant  - it wouldn't have lasted long in GWR days!).  Adding an off scene Advanced Staring Signal wouldn't be a bad idea but it depends to some extent on the (prototype) method used to work the single line.

 

B. I'm not sure how you will work them in model terms but your point lever numbering needs some changes and you are also missing a trap point for the runround loop.   So I'll do it properly assuming that trap is there -

No.3 will work the running line point plus the trap in the run round loop.

No.16 will work both ends of the release crossover as shown.

 No.13 will work the connection from the runround loop towards the goods shed etc sidings and  the end of the double slip furthest from the engine shed (i.e. it effectively becomes a crossover and that end of the double slip acts as a trap point for the goods shed etc siding).

In the real world the other end of the double slip would probably be worked by an adjacent handpoint lever but you could work it with No.14

 

C.  Assuming you provide ground discs to GWR standards No.17 is in the right place adjacent to the platform line toe of 16 crossover.  All the others are wrong.

a. You ideally need a ground disc adjacent to the Home Signal to read towards the sidings but it might be the one you could omit, they often were omitted (=No.5).

b. You need a ground disc reading from the runround loop out onto the branch (=No.6)

c. You need a ground disc reading from the goods shed etc sidings out onto the branch (= No.12)

 

And that's your lot.  If No.14 is worked from the signal box you could provide a ground disc reading from the engine shed road towards the sidings - fairly unlikely that No.14 would be worked from the 'box to be honest so that disc is also unlikely.

 

So apart from a bit of signalling reorganisation your only other problem is the lack of a trap point for the runround loop.   

Edited September 12, 2020 by The Stationmaster