LMS Fowler tender with Midland Rly chassis Mystery

[justin]

 

While doing some research into the tenders of locomotives bought by Woodham Bros at Barry I have come across a bit of a mystery

LMS Crab 2-6-0 arrived with a Fowler 3500 gallon tender which has an ex Midland Railway chassis with long frame cut outs on the side and an additional cut out in front of the leading axle. Pictures below show it when at Barry and later stored at Binbrook (it has, as far as we can tell, been subsequently scrapped)

 

 

 

The last tender allocated to 42859 on the loco and tender record cards at the NRM is a Fowler 3500 gallon no. 3563 built in 1925 by North British Locomotive Co. It was allocated to LMS compound no. 1154 for most of the time up to November 1946 (it was with other locos from 29/8/1927-January 1928 and had two other one week spells with other locos in 1930).

I would expect the tender to be all new construction and the record card does not list it as reusing old frames. John Jennison’s article on LMS 3500 gallon tenders in LMS Review No. 1 doesn’t list it as having old frames and LMS Locomotive Profiles No.13 The Standard Compounds published by Wild Swan also lists loco 1154 as having a tender with short slots in the frames.

The obvious solution is an unrecorded tender swap in the latter days of steam but the following photos refute this.

 

42859 Saltney Jct 16.6.1964. Long frame slots visible

 

Enlargement of the tender numberplate from the photo above which appears to read 3563

 

42859 Bletchley  6.12.1959. Tender 3563 was transferred to 42859 in March 1959 and the photo clearly shows the long frame slots. From my own research I regard the records as pretty accurate up to 1961 so I think we can be sure this is 3563.

 

Finally a link to Rail Online which shows Crab 42892 at Willesden in June 1954. This loco was coupled to 3563 from November 1946 to March 1959 and the photo again shows long frame slots.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p1027580583/h84a3c419#h84a3c419

 

Does anyone know of pictures of Compound 1154 that clearly shows the tender, I would be interested to try and establish whether it always had long slots or when they appeared. The most likely explanation is a numberplate or tank swap at some stage.

Can anyone point me in the direction of information on the overhaul of tenders at Derby, Crewe and Horwich.  Was the swapping of tanks (which carried the numberplate) and chassis’s commonplace or exceptional?

 

Justin

 

[Blandford1969]

Sorry my only one is at an angle and you can't see the tender frames. 

 

I found this shot of 1154 on Ebay

Edited November 17, 2020 by Blandford1969

[Poor Old Bruce]

AFAIK the practice of re-using old tender frames was a common thing on the LMS. Presumably it made sense to re-use a perfectly viable chassis rather than build a new one when it was just the body which needed replacing. This would apply to 'in house' builds rater than 'contractor' builds although that didn't stop the 4000 gallon tenders of the North British built Jubilees being swapped for the Fowler tenders on the Royal Scots. Several of the longer Deeley tenders were fitted with standard length Fowler style bodies when needed, leaving a flat area at the back, one of these survives with S&DJR 2-8-0 No.88. Preserved 8F 48305's tender was a hybrid of a Stanier 3500 gallon body on a Midland chassis which was cobbled up in preservation days, last time I saw it, it has now got a (new?) welded body but still on the MR chassis.

[Rail-Online]

Hi,

 

Here's a blow up of  the tender of 41154 if it helps. I cannot tell if it has long slots - can you?

 

Cheers Tony

Edited November 18, 2020 by Rail-Online

[justin]

5 hours ago, Rail-Online said:

Hi,

 

Here's a blow up of  the tender of 41154 if it helps. I cannot tell if it has long slots - can you?

 

Cheers Tony

Thanks Tony. I can't tell which slots they are, but 41154 only had tender 3563 prior to November 1946 so I really need pictures before this date

 

Justin