Jump to content

LNER/BR(E) p-way huts


Recommended Posts

Been building some of the excellent scale model scenery models of these . Not really taken much notice of the real things before, but they are everywhere! 

I was wondering over what time period they were buit, what they were actually for and why so many?

Cheers 

Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, cravensdmufan said:

Russ, I've a memory of reading somewhere these LNER / BR(E) huts were designed and pre-fabricated by the Melton Constable concrete works on the ex M&GN.

 

I think it's in one of my books - I will research further and get back on it.

 

Thats interesting, about six miles from where I live! 

Were they on the whole of the ER and NE region 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Thats interesting, about six miles from where I live! 

Were they on the whole of the ER and NE region 

Yes I think so.  There have also been a couple of O Gauge kits of those BR (E) concrete huts. My mate models ER in O Gauge and I've a feeling he has one of those kits which may well have a prototype information sheet included.  I'll check it out with him.  

 

You may well get information from the NNR museum on the Melton concrete works and it's products.  But who knows when we'll be able to visit again......:sad_mini2:

 

In the meantime, I will search my books here - may take a while though!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, cravensdmufan said:

Yes I think so.  There have also been a couple of O Gauge kits of those BR (E) concrete huts. My mate models ER in O Gauge and I've a feeling he has one of those kits which may well have a prototype information sheet included.  I'll check it out with him.  

 

You may well get information from the NNR museum on the Melton concrete works and it's products.  But who knows when we'll be able to visit again......:sad_mini2:

 

In the meantime, I will search my books here - may take a while though!

 

Cheers. 

 

The NNR museum isn't a place i trust for accuracy to be honest 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Central Concrete Depot opened in York in 1928, the Melton Constable depot closed in 1936. Another depot was established at Lowestoft to serve the Southern Area of the LNER, but I'm not sure in which year. 

  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, iands said:

The Central Concrete Depot opened in York in 1928, the Melton Constable depot closed in 1936. Another depot was established at Lowestoft to serve the Southern Area of the LNER, but I'm not sure in which year. 

 

I didn't realise Melton closed so early.  

Were the huts produced by LNER and BR?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

I didn't realise Melton closed so early.  

Were the huts produced by LNER and BR?

Hi Russ,

I quoted the above details from a book entitled - "Engineers' Catalogue of Materials, Concrete Articles" (LNER Chief Engineer's Department, Kings Cross). It is produced (facsimile) by NERA, and dated January 1947 and to quote again ".... was intended to supplant individual area designs  with "all line" standard articles ....". Given the date of 1947, I assume that the huts were still being produced in BR days, i.e. after 1948, but I'm not sure when prefab production of the huts ceased. It is an interesting book with many detailed drawings. FYI, it details Hut Types A, C and D (not sure what happened to B, presumably there was some kind of rationalisation and Type B was dropped at sometime).

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Why so many ? Before motorised gangs P.way and S&T work was done essentially on foot. Huts were provided where the gangs were based for storage of tools and materials, and at intervals for further storage and for somewhere to get out of the rain when patrolling. 

 

At stations and junctions they could also be required by the S&T or for signalbox lamp rooms etc. Both p.way and S&T staff tended to 'acquire' accommodation given half a chance, sometimes for legitimate storage, often to avoid having to actually clear stuff out. 

 

I incurred the wrath of my local p.way by having a 2kw heater in one of their 'middle if nowhere' cabins disconnected as it was on continually so the patrolman could warm his backside once a week. 

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, iands said:

Hi Russ,

I quoted the above details from a book entitled - "Engineers' Catalogue of Materials, Concrete Articles" (LNER Chief Engineer's Department, Kings Cross). It is produced (facsimile) by NERA, and dated January 1947 and to quote again ".... was intended to supplant individual area designs  with "all line" standard articles ....". Given the date of 1947, I assume that the huts were still being produced in BR days, i.e. after 1948, but I'm not sure when prefab production of the huts ceased. It is an interesting book with many detailed drawings. FYI, it details Hut Types A, C and D (not sure what happened to B, presumably there was some kind of rationalisation and Type B was dropped at sometime).

 

Cheers Ian

I've noticed three different types 

A four section one with two windows on one side, a three section one with a larger centre section with a three piece window,  this is the same as the first one with just one window a three section one where the sections are the same size and a two section window 

Do these compare to the drawings? 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

Why so many ? Before motorised gangs P.way and S&T work was done essentially on foot. Huts were provided where the gangs were based for storage of tools and materials, and at intervals for further storage and for somewhere to get out of the rain when patrolling. 

 

At stations and junctions they could also be required by the S&T or for signalbox lamp rooms etc. Both p.way and S&T staff tended to 'acquire' accommodation given half a chance, sometimes for legitimate storage, often to avoid having to actually clear stuff out. 

 

I incurred the wrath of my local p.way by having a 2kw heater in one of their 'middle if nowhere' cabins disconnected as it was on continually so the patrolman could warm his backside once a week. 

 

When were they last used? I was thinking when they got the road mess and tool vans but if some had power maybe later

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Cheers Ian

I've noticed three different types 

A four section one with two windows on one side, a three section one with a larger centre section with a three piece window,  this is the same as the first one with just one window a three section one where the sections are the same size and a two section window 

Do these compare to the drawings? 

 

Hi Russ,

 

The best way I can describe each type in the book is as followed (as viewed from the track):

Type A: 3 sections = Panel-Window-Panel 

Type C: 4 sections = Panel-Window-Window-Panel

Type D: 5 sections = Panel-Window-Panel-Window-Panel.

 

So, I would say what you have seen is a Type A and a Type C.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

When were they last used? 

Hi Russ,

 

There used to be one at Chaloners Whin Junction on the Up side that was actually for the S&T lineman. It lasted until at least the opening of the ECML Diversion (that did away with Chaloners Whin Jcn), may have lasted a bit longer, say 1985. I've had a few cuppas and sandwiches in this one during my time as a trainee.

 

I'm sure somewhere on the rail network several may well have lasted longer, maybe there's even one or two still being used today somewhere? But generally, you're probably right to assume that the majority fell into disuse as Pway and S&T became progressively more and more "mobile".

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

When were they last used? I was thinking when they got the road mess and tool vans but if some had power maybe later

 

This particular one was between Garsdale and Kirkby Stephen (so PW hut in general rather than LNER concrete but the same principle). It had been used latterly for something to do with an HABD hence the power; that was long gone and no-one thought it necessary to let anyone upstairs know that the heater wasn't needed. I did offer the PWME the opportunity to have the bill transferred to his cost centre first. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, iands said:

But generally, you're probably right to assume that the majority fell into disuse as Pway and S&T became progressively more and more "mobile".

 

Not to mention rationalised and centralised in strategic places

 

Technology played its part too, the introduction of CWR and power signalling meant less maintenance / routine checks were needed.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, iands said:

Hi Russ,

 

The best way I can describe each type in the book is as followed (as viewed from the track):

Type A: 3 sections = Panel-Window-Panel 

Type C: 4 sections = Panel-Window-Window-Panel

Type D: 5 sections = Panel-Window-Panel-Window-Panel.

 

So, I would say what you have seen is a Type A and a Type C.

 

Cheers Ian,  I will now have to find a type D !

I reckon there are two versions of type A , I'm so glad you have given me this information as I can bore people at work with different pway hut types! 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 19/11/2020 at 20:26, iands said:

There used to be one at Chaloners Whin Junction on the Up side that was actually for the S&T lineman. It lasted until at least the opening of the ECML Diversion (that did away with Chaloners Whin Jcn), may have lasted a bit longer, say 1985.

 

A lot of the surviving ECML huts fell victim to the electrification works

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ken.W said:

 

A lot of the surviving ECML huts fell victim to the electrification works

 

I did wonder about that. Until I was making some models of them I hadn't really taken much notice of them . There does seem to be more surviving in East anglia 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/11/2020 at 20:14, iands said:

Hi Russ,

 

The best way I can describe each type in the book is as followed (as viewed from the track):

Type A: 3 sections = Panel-Window-Panel 

Type C: 4 sections = Panel-Window-Window-Panel

Type D: 5 sections = Panel-Window-Panel-Window-Panel.

 

So, I would say what you have seen is a Type A and a Type C.

 

I did a trip to York last week and found three type Ds 

Whitemoor drove near March,  Gainsborough trent junction and Beckingham on the joint line. They also have a door at each end

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
2 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

I did wonder about that. Until I was making some models of them I hadn't really taken much notice of them . There does seem to be more surviving in East anglia 

My rather superficial research suggests they could be also seen in North Wales and on the WCML..or are they different?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Gilbert said:

My rather superficial research suggests they could be also seen in North Wales and on the WCML..or are they different?

 

I'm not sure on that , but I'm sure there are people on here who will know 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
3 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

My rather superficial research suggests they could be also seen in North Wales and on the WCML..or are they different?

Based on a photo of Llandudno Junction..but I'm no expert..

 

PMB Hut.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.