cypherman Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Hi all, I have recently noticed that the number of complete H/D and Wrenn chassis coming up for sale as a single item has dried up to a mere trickle on Ebay. And that it appears that they are being broken down to their component parts. IE: chassis block, Bogie and pony trucks, Pick ups, Armatures bodies etc. I was after a castle chassis and motor as I have everything else. The only way at the time I could get them was to buy it from a dealer paying for each piece. The total price was £90.00. To the dealers credit he did offer to drop the price to £75.00. But as I told him at that price I can buy a complete loco and tender cheaper, And did so. Got a fully working if a little tatty Bristol Castle for £40.00 which included postage. I got that and still have the part I started with. On one point I can understand that if you just want one item it may seem to work out cheaper but if you want more than one item it is becoming much more expensive. Unless you buy a complete engine. Has any one else come across this happenning. 1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Its common enough across the collecting world to cause it to have a thread of its own on the Classic 0 Gauge forum, which has members in Britain, Europe and the USA. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 It has been on the go for well over 10 years but in those days there were only 3 or 4 doing it, now there are many doing it. If a damaged chassis was used I would not mind but I get very disapponted when good working chassis's are broken up. The worst part is removing wheels from axles as they are not always straightforward to quarter and sometimes end up being loose. It happens with TT as well as 00. I personally prefer to by a scrap one to get the spares I want. Garry 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) One of my other interests is classic hi-fi and you see exactly the same practice with unscrupulous "dealers" disassembling perfectly good (and already pricey) top end loudspeakers such as the Rogers LS3/5a and then selling the drive units, crossovers, grills, even the name badges as 'spare parts' just so that they can make a few extra quid. As with model trains, there is no attempt to pretend that these parts are genuine salvage or NOS components when you can see the whole loudspeaker or model locomotive laid out for sale in pieces in front of you. Edited December 23, 2020 by CKPR 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Vigor Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 2 hours ago, cypherman said: Hi all, I have recently noticed that the number of complete H/D and Wrenn chassis coming up for sale as a single item has dried up to a mere trickle on Ebay. And that it appears that they are being broken down to their component parts. IE: chassis block, Bogie and pony trucks, Pick ups, Armatures bodies etc. I was after a castle chassis and motor as I have everything else. The only way at the time I could get them was to buy it from a dealer paying for each piece. The total price was £90.00. To the dealers credit he did offer to drop the price to £75.00. But as I told him at that price I can buy a complete loco and tender cheaper, And did so. Got a fully working if a little tatty Bristol Castle for £40.00 which included postage. I got that and still have the part I started with. On one point I can understand that if you just want one item it may seem to work out cheaper but if you want more than one item it is becoming much more expensive. Unless you buy a complete engine. Has any one else come across this happenning. I find the practice appalling. One would hope that dealers' reputations would suffer accordingly, but I suspect there will always be mugs/the despertate willing to pay for these items? My past gripe concerns locos and tenders apparently being sold as separate items. 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 (edited) The practice is even worse in the case of Hi-Fi speakers. The better ones had carefully matched components to meet the specification. My B&O speakers came with individual test sheets (how relevant these are today I don't as they are rather ancient - They were quite long in the tooth when I purchased them around 25 years ago (new B&O is way out of Grifone friendly price range) and they have had new suspensions fitted. The were made from some super new (then) material with a built-in decay factor. My latest Dublo locomotive started as a Dublo 'Bristol Castle' body picked up in a toy fair junk bin for a £1. It had suffered from vandalism from a previous carer* who had removed boiler fittings and various details. A tender came from stock (choice of two) and eBay provided a chassis (ringfield and with a slightly bent coupling rod but it is 3 rail - I shall refrain from naming her 'Ludlow Castle'! (plates for 'Eastnor Castle' have arrived). Now I need a motor. A ringfield seems to merit £25, so she will have an X.04 . A Deltic/Co-Bo layshaft from eBay provided the worm. Now to put her together.... Perhaps a new body? but then it would definitely be a case of Grandma's broom. (This joke predates 'Fools and Horses' by a considerable period. I first heard it in the fifties and I doubt it was new even then.) * To be euphemistic, more 'vandal'. Edited December 25, 2020 by Il Grifone 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Buckner Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Il Grifone said: This joke predates 'Fools and Horses' by a considerable period. The concept is one of the oldest in Western philosophy, having been discussed by the likes of Heraclitus and Plato by c. 500–400 BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus Clever chaps, but they knew sweet f.a. about which decoder is best to fit to Bristol Castle. Edited December 25, 2020 by Mike Buckner afterthought 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 (edited) She needs something beefy I would surmise. EDIT Reading the link, I would also surmise that some people had too much time on their hands! Edited December 25, 2020 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 I have somehow managed to avoid using Ebay until comparatively recently, usually I was able to pick up what I needed at exhibitions and help out local traders in the process. However when I required a Lima unpowered Class 117 DMBS I gave it a shot and found one for £14.99 plus postage.......but I was amazed at the number of separate bodies, underframes and even seating units being touted alongside it at similar and often higher prices - e.g. bodies at £17.99. If I had been forced to buy the item as a 'kit' it would been an excessively pricey Lima DMBS, to the point where that kind of total outlay could land a complete if somewhat imperfect 3-car set. While I can understand the motivation behind it, I feel it's not a healthy trend in this sector of the hobby. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 This seems to have been happening for some time with Triang EM2s, pantographs alone going for over £40 each. It's often fairly obvious the seller has broken up a complete loco as all the bits are listed one after the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherman Posted December 26, 2020 Author Share Posted December 26, 2020 In one respect breaking up of badley broken engines I can understand. Especially if the it is really too far gone to make a good restoration. But braking up fully working engines I feel is shameful. There must be enough badly damaged engines out there for breaking up and giving a plentiful spares source rather than what they are doing. 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 There's a related trend in diecast collecting where boxed models are split up and model and box elements are sold seperately. The prices asked are clearly aimed at the buyer who seeks just the part they need and will pay over the odds. I really don't like breaking up good items for parts but I do end up with Christmas Trees, whereby a model with a fault or issue is progressively robbed of parts for other items. At some point, it either becomes a major project in its own right (for example a remotoring exercise) or eventually gets broken for spares having long ceased to be a viable unit in its own right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium JDW Posted December 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 26, 2020 Yep I've noticed this too, and it is often pretty obvious they're selling every part of a model at much inflated prices - I can see the plus from a buyers point of view if they just need one part, but seems a waste to dismantle a good model for it. Plus watching the lisings on Ebay, I see the same unwanted parts listed over and over - so even if they make money on some bits I imagine these sellers are left with a lot of stuff sat on the shelf. The price for things like Lima bodyshells seems particularly daft at times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 Happens in the classic racing bike world (yes, there is one!). Whole bikes fitted with top end 'old' components are bought by 'dealers', taken apart and the frame and components sold seperately on the web. The parts are worth more than the whole. Happened to a bike I sold to someone who pestered me to sell it and the next time I saw it was in bits on e-bay. Some of the parts were on offer individually for half of what he bought the bike for! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 Going back about 10 years ago I was outbid on a Wrenn Battle of Britain at an HRCA auction, it was members only too, it went for about £250. The next day the chassis was on Ebay at £250, the body, £175, tender £95, box about £75. I knew it was the same one due to a mark on the roof and writing on the box. Considering the HRCA was for members only it was even more disappointing to see what some of those were up to. Garry 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 I trust the bits didn't sell! Still I've seen complete Wrenn locos on sale at £600! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Il Grifone said: I trust the bits didn't sell! Still I've seen complete Wrenn locos on sale at £600! The HRCA auctions were, when I went, always cheaper than Ebay as they were for members only so no outside bidding as such. Always reasonable bargains, until some people used the auctions to make money as I was told later that as people found out about these auctions they joined not because of Hornby interest but just to attend the auctions to get cheap items to make huge profits. At the end of the day they are entitled to do what they want with what they buy but it is not in the spirit of being a member. I know the BB chassis and body were for sale for a long while and no idea if they sold or got reduced. Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherman Posted December 26, 2020 Author Share Posted December 26, 2020 Hi all, Well I suppose this is happening for one reason only. GREED. pure and simple. But as they say what goes around comes around. One day they will want something and they will have to pay a fortune for it. At least I hope so. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Belcher Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 19 hours ago, 5050 said: Happens in the classic racing bike world (yes, there is one!). Whole bikes fitted with top end 'old' components are bought by 'dealers', taken apart and the frame and components sold seperately on the web. The parts are worth more than the whole. Happened to a bike I sold to someone who pestered me to sell it and the next time I saw it was in bits on e-bay. Some of the parts were on offer individually for half of what he bought the bike for! I'd only do this with a partly intact bike if there were particularly desirable bits on it that a someone wouldn't be willing to buy a whole frameset for (e.g. my last cyclo-cross bike had Mafac brakes which I sold separately; the less interesting headset and chainset stayed on the frame). In the model train world, the dearth of cheap-ish wrecks that the likes of me might see as a rebuild, repaint & detailing project is indeed a shame. My 'City of Sheffield' started off that way. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernowtim Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 (edited) I have noticed this a lot with Hornby O gauge wagons, one seller has pairs of couplings , wheels and axles, and wagon roofs as separate lots, with the robbed wagons sold as a job lot "for restoration or parts". I recently paid £6.20 for 5 rather ropey but complete open wagons (collected as local) and have seen a pair of couplings sell for more! I do feel guilty swapping parts on my collection though. Edited December 27, 2020 by kernowtim Fat fingers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthemilk Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 On 25/12/2020 at 09:41, Il Grifone said: The practice is even worse in the case of Hi-Fi speakers. The better ones had carefully matched components to meet the specification. My B&O speakers came with individual test sheets (how relevant these are today I don't as they are rather ancient - They were quite long in the tooth when I purchased them around 25 years ago (new B&O is way out of Grifone friendly price range) and they have had new suspensions fitted. The were made from some super new (then) material with a built-in decay factor. My latest Dublo locomotive started as a Dublo 'Bristol Castle' body picked up in a toy fair junk bin for a £1. It had suffered from vandalism from a previous carer* who had removed boiler fittings and various details. A tender came from stock (choice of two) and eBay provided a chassis (ringfield and with a slightly bent coupling rod but it is 3 rail - I shall refrain from naming her 'Ludlow Castle'! (plates for 'Eastnor Castle' have arrived). Now I need a motor. A ringfield seems to merit £25, so she will have an X.04 . A Deltic/Co-Bo layshaft from eBay provided the worm. Now to put her together.... Perhaps a new body? but then it would definitely be a case of Grandma's broom. (This joke predates 'Fools and Horses' by a considerable period. I first heard it in the fifties and I doubt it was new even then.) * To be euphemistic, more 'vandal'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthemilk Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 Sorry guys I m a bit obtuse in this matter of fitting x04 motors to a dublo 8f of either persuasion , 1/2 inch or ringfield . I have a few dublo 8f s in my tuit box, less motors , but spare x04 motors . Is this easy for a left handed 10 thumbed buffon like myself to attemp and any pointers/instructions on how to do it........... many thanks in anticipation bobthemilk - foothills of the pennines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 (edited) For anyone a mite more adept than bobthemilk claims to be, a look at the range of motors intended for robots and the like offered by http://www.technobotsonline.com could provide a suitable alternative to the Hornby motor. (After all a model loco is just a single purpose robot.... Discuss! ) Usual disclaimer. Edited December 27, 2020 by DonB typo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Buckner Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 certainly some of mine seem to have a mind of their own Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthemilk Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 HAL 9000 maybe? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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