A westernised Cambrian Railway 0-4-2 Sharp Stewart?

[Paul H Vigor]

An eBay curiosity.

 

Appears to be a loco scratch-built utilising plastic loco body parts, plasticard and cast fittings. Someone knew what they were doing! My question: does anyone recognise this loco? I'm assuming it was absorbed by the GWR at the Grouping? The closest I can get is a westernised Cambrian Railway 0-4-2 + tender Sharp Stewart - that would make it a 'might-have-been' as this class of loco was scrapped by the Cambrian in 1899? Any thoughts welcomed!

 

Assuming it is indeed an ex-Cambrian GWR 'might-have-been', can anyone suggest a suitable, unassigned, GWR locomotive number that would suit it?

 

Many thanks!

[jamieb]

It's nothing Cambrian, the Volunteer class was very different ,for a start it didn't have a belpaire firebox 

The cab has a slight Midland or LNWR look to it,but I'd say it's a freelance fancy 

[corneliuslundie]

The tender and cab look like Sharp, Stewart but certainly the Cambrian Mixed Passenger class never got Belpaire fireboxes. They had all gone by 1898. Two went to the Brecon & Merthyr (No. 4 Wynnstay and No. 6 Glansevern) but they were withdrawn earlier than the Cambrian ones. But that was a standard SS design and other railways had them (eg a Swedish railway which has one preserved), but not as far as I am aware any which became part of the GWR.

So yes a nicely done fiction.

"Locomotives at the Grouping" has a list of numbers allocated to absorbed locos but no single list of numbers used for its own stock. 12 seems a possible as I have not found one of that number in 1922. It would at one time have been ex Shrewsbury & Chester Ry No 12, a Bury 2-2-2 of 1847, withdrawn in 1869, but I am sure it would have been re-used after that. In 1926 the number was allocated to a geared sentinel loco.

Sorry not to give a more definite answer.

Jonathan

[JimC]

If you assume a GWR reboilering anything is up for grabs, although a GW boiler would surely have had a bigger dome. 
As for a number, tricky. Numbers were allocated by wheel arrangement, but no 0-4-2s were absorbed to give us a clue. 1337 might work, being after absorbed 2-4-0s. It was on an absorbed Manning Wardle that was scrapped in 1926, but we can imagine it going earlier.

[jamieb]

Looking at it again,it could be a hybrid of two Sharp Stewart 0-6-0 Cambrian locos. No. 898 had a similar cab but retained its round top firebox and lasted until 1947.Its sister enginrt,No.908 received a belpaire firebox in the 1930s and worked from Didcot until about 1945 I believe.However it had a replacement cab which made it look more like Jones Goods 

Maybe the builder was trying out his own version of truth by combining the two? 

[corneliuslundie]

If we allow an 0-6-0 rather than an 0-4-2, yes. So the Small Goods, No. 14 Broneirion (GWR 898) lasted almost to Nationalisation and No 45 Rhiewport (GWR 900) until 1945. 898 didn't get a Belpaire boiler but 900 did, though by that time it had a six wheeled tender. Your point taken on cabs. Tenders seem to have been swapped around quite a lot so the 4-wheeled one is not too much of a problem.

One of the ex-Mid Wales Railway locos of the class (No. 48, GWR 908) also lasted a long time. It also had a 4-wheeled tender later in life, but I don't think it ever got a Belpaire boiler.

Sorry if I am getting boring but I have spent a lot of time recently looking at every possible photos of Cambrian locos for a WRRC project.

Jonathan

[bécasse]

Given that some locos did receive a belpaire firebox, the modeller may well have incorporated one in this model in order to be able to fit the motor in, something that could be a significant problem in times past. He may well have not had an accurate drawing either and made the model based on photographs and a few known dimensions. An informed guess suggests that the model dates from around 1960, quite a few modellers were experimenting with the use of plastikard to build locos by then, me included.

[corneliuslundie]

A good point about drawings, Mike Lloyd didn't do his of the class until much later and never did one of the Mixed Passenger 0-4-2s.

The model is actually rather nicely done. Definitely what a Mixed Passenger class would have looked like if it had gone into Swindon for a thorough makeover. And the tender is a nice representation of a SS 4-wheeler.

Actually, thinking about it is it a SS cab or is it a Cambrian one? The Mixed Passenger class was delivered without cabs, as I think were the Small Goods, except possibly the two MWR locos. But again an effective representation.

If I owned it I would simply apply Rule 1. We do much worse travesties of history with many of our layout stories.

Jonathan

[Quarryscapes]

GWR No. 11 was allocated to a Cambrian loco, but the loco didn't last long enough to receive it. I have etched plates available for it. (Think it was for one of the 0-4-4Ts but don't have books here at the minute)

[corneliuslundie]

Yes, GWR No. 11 was allocated to 0-4-4T No. 5 (courtesy of the RCTS volume). A good thought.

Jonathan

[JimC]

Another possibility would be 1391. The last absorbed locomotives in the 1300 series were 0-8-0s up to 1390, so a Cambrian 0-4-2 could have got 1391. In real life it was allocated to an ex LSWR 46 class Adams Radial from the Brecon and Merthyr, but that was absorbed after the Cambrian and in the event it never carried the number.

[The Stationmaster]

The firebox/boiler/smokebox is obviously from a Triang 3F with the original dome and, probably chimney, but the safety valves replaced by a GWR style safety valve bonnet.  the footplate and middle and leading splashers plus the footsteps are also direct from a 3F.  So basically start from a 3F and see what idea of a Western/constituent etc company engine you can come up with by changing the cab and addinga 4 wheel tender.

[Johnson044]

Loco wheels maybe Hamblings. Tender,I think,is a shortened Tri-ang Caledonian single with Jackson wheels.

[5050]

22 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The firebox/boiler/smokebox is obviously from a Triang 3F with the original dome and, probably chimney, but the safety valves replaced by a GWR style safety valve bonnet.  the footplate and middle and leading splashers plus the footsteps are also direct from a 3F.  So basically start from a 3F and see what idea of a Western/constituent etc company engine you can come up with by changing the cab and addinga 4 wheel tender.

Perhaps the idea was generated from the 'Dean Goods' 3F conversions that were offered by someone BITD.  Basically this was a bit cut off the cab roof and a repaint.  Prototype fidelity wasn't always a strong point back then!  Provided the wheel arrangement and the livery were about right the imagination speedily took over!

[Johnson044]

They were happy days. We were content with far less. Aged about 12 I took a Tri-ang Lord of the Isles and a junior hacksaw and made what must have been a truly horrible attempt at a Midland Johnson Spinner. A stretched Polly made an ex LSWR G6 (to my eyes anyway) and the magazines often had articles that proudly displayed the Princesses that people had turned into black fives, rebuilt Scots etc. Somewhere I have a copy of Model Railways magazine - about 1974 I should think - where a Dean Goods made from a Tri-ang 3F mated with an Airfix City of Truro is clearly visible on their equivalent of RM's Railway of the month. As I say, we more easily contented then.