Building a Parkside NBR 8t van

[47137]

I am building my first Parkside by Peco wagon, their PS02 NBR 8-ton van. I have built some wagon kits by other manufacturers but this is my first Parkside one:

 

 

 

So far so good. The screws in the underside are holding a sheet of lead onto the inside floor, total weight is about 160 grams.

 

The wheels spin freely with a tiny bit of end play - ok. I have all four axle boxes able to slide up and down in their W irons, but clearly this is going to be the roughest-running wagon I have ever made unless I do something hold the axle boxes in place. Perhaps glue or some kind of springing arrangement?

 

I am tempted to glue all four axle boxes solid so the wagon sits flat on flat track but I feel I should ask first before I do something I end up regretting.

 

Many thanks,

- Richard.

[brossard]

Good to see this.  If it were me I would put the sub floor trussing in.

 

 

This van was bought second hand by a friend and I refurbished the buffers (Invertrain), brake gear and couplings.  As the roof was already on I added weight to the U/F and covered it with plastic card.  The axleboxes are loose.

 

 

The body was OK, but the colour was more green than grey.  I left it.

 

You might have gone too far now, but I have used Bill Bedford springing units from Eileen's.  These work nicely.  Otherwise, you can leave the axle boxes loose and they should be fine.

 

John

[Simond]

Parkside axleboxes are an interesting thing.  They do not provide equalisation as they are, because they are supported outside of the wheels.  Pressing hard on one corner of the wagon will tend to lift the opposite wheel, which is the opposite of what you want.

 

options:

 

* glue them solid - use a bit of plate glass (or a heavyweight kitchen worktop) to ensure they’re all level.  It’s ok, on a normal wagon, but better is possible!
 

* glue one pair solid, and equalise the other axle, need to set it up so all the axle boxes are at mid travel.  This works ok.

 

* spring the axleboxes with slaters springs.  Fiddly, but satisfying.  You need to drill holes in the tops of the axleboxes to retain the springs, from memory it’s necessary to modify the axle guards too.  Alternatively, I tried fitting a wire sticking out of the box top to retain the spring, into a clearance hole in the spring shackle.

 

* spring the axleboxes with bent piano wire.  This seems like a holy grail solution, but I haven’t got there reliably yet.  Ideally, the piano wire is only bent in one plane, and is hidden behind the solebar, ideally retained by the inner frames.  If I found a solution, I’d make a jig to form the springs reliably & repeatable.  I keep trying.

 

there are other solutions, but probably not using the Parkside components.

 

hth

Simon

 

[47137]

I am not good with springs. They are always too firm or too soft. Even on quite a large-scale application like pushing Magnorail track sideways.

 

This is a rather unkind photo of my wagon with all four axle boxes at their highest ("van most loaded") setting. I know what has happened - I have spent too much effort trying to get the four mitred corners of the body perfect, and ignored the flatness:

 

I have glued up the axle boxes on the wonkiest axle to make it parallel to the floor. This made things a lot better.

 

Then added a sort of a pillar from styrene under the other axle, with a scrap of piano wire to minimise the contact area with the axle. I don't want to get drummed out of the '7mm+ modelling' forum with my first post but this is what I have done:

 

This actually works. The pivoting axle has barely half of a millimetre of useful movement at its extremities, so perhaps 0.2 mm per wheel, but a little movement has got to be better than none at all.

 

Looking at an end, the wagon always sits vertically on the track. Looking at the sides it is about 0.5mm down at one end, as though it has been loaded unevenly. 0.5 mm represents 3/4inch on prototype so bearable. I must find some khaki or similar colour for the pillar.

 

I wonder if, for a van, it might be possible to arrange a linkage of some kind between two adjacent axleboxes. This to go inside the body. Either along one side (imitating the Dapol RTR models) or across one end. No springs, just something to rest on the tops of both axle boxes so if one goes up the other goes down. My build had really gone too far to try to do anything.

 

- Richard.

[Flying Pig]

6 minutes ago, 47137 said:

I must find some khaki or similar colour for the pillar.

 

Could you not make the pivot entirely out of wire and leave out the pillar?  That would hardly show.  I've done it in 4mm, but I don't know whether it would work with heavier 7mm stock.

[47137]

13 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Could you not make the pivot entirely out of wire and leave out the pillar?  That would hardly show.  I've done it in 4mm, but I don't know whether it would work with heavier 7mm stock.

I think it would work fine but be a little harder to set up. Perhaps use a U shape of wire and pass the legs through holes in the floor and secure it onto something inside the body. The plastic pillar was quite easy to do, I cut it to length and then filed a tiny groove in the end to seat the wire and get the final length.

 

- Richard.

[Simond]

Yes, that looks like a good solution.

 

You could use wire or a bit of brass, bent to an "L" shape with a groove across the edge of the long leg, and glue and/or screw it to the wagon floor.  File the groove to give the right running height before fixing, of course.

 

That said, your "pillar" will disappear in the gloom when it's painted grubby and all the brake linkages etc are there to hide it.

[47137]

17 hours ago, brossard said:

Good to see this.  If it were me I would put the sub floor trussing in.

 

 

 

I would like to save the trussing for another model. If I could arrange to support the axle boxes in a more prototypical way then the trussing would be a nice touch, so something for another day.

 

- Richard.

[brossard]

Agree with others, this is an effective compensation method.  I did try a similar thing once with some bent up brass strip.  I found that the strip bearing on the axle gave an annoying squeak and rubbed a mark in the axle so I never did it again.  Your method might be better.

 

If your layout is a smallish BLT, uncompensated wagons should be fine since the speed is never going to be high.  It's all a personal choice of course and exploring new ways to do things is always fun.

 

John

[Hal Nail]

7 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Could you not make the pivot entirely out of wire and leave out the pillar?

I use a paper clip bent to support the axle.

 

Not perhaps the most elegant but it works!

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Hal Nail

[Flying Pig]

11 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

I use a paper clip bent to support the axle.

 

Not perhaps the most elegant but it works!

 

 

I think that's what I did.  

[47137]

6 hours ago, brossard said:

Agree with others, this is an effective compensation method.  I did try a similar thing once with some bent up brass strip.  I found that the strip bearing on the axle gave an annoying squeak and rubbed a mark in the axle so I never did it again.  Your method might be better.

 

If your layout is a smallish BLT, uncompensated wagons should be fine since the speed is never going to be high.  It's all a personal choice of course and exploring new ways to do things is always fun.

 

John

 

What was the problem with the mark on the axle?

 

- Richard.

[brossard]

1 hour ago, 47137 said:

 

What was the problem with the mark on the axle?

 

- Richard.

 

Ha, it just looked unsightly, I want my axles to be a uniform colour.

 

John

[47137]

14 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I use a paper clip bent to support the axle.

 

Not perhaps the most elegant but it works!

 

 

It doesn't seem to need much. A bit of wire will be easier to set up than my method.

 

I suppose, a refinement would be to solder the wire onto a scrap of 1/8" bore tube slipped over the axle. The springiness of the wire providing the pivot and the tube acting like a bearing.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

19 hours ago, brossard said:

If your layout is a smallish BLT, uncompensated wagons should be fine since the speed is never going to be high.  It's all a personal choice of course and exploring new ways to do things is always fun.

 

I don't have a layout yet; just a test track tucked underneath my long-term British H0 project:

 

The main characteristic of the track is a reverse curve constructed using Peco Setrack i.e. about 1 metre radius. I am trying out different controllers.

 

The layout exists as a history of a might have been light railway, ideally to be set in 1890. I am working up the story, good fun. The four wagons in the foreground represent the earliest and lastest designs I hope to run. I'd like to model an intermediate location on this line, which as it happens will be the headquarters of the operation, there is a space for a 3.5 x 2.5 m 'L' in another room.

 

Actually this wagon-building is turning out to be fun, I am trying out different techniques for each model, all new to me, and so far I seem to be getting away with it.

 

- Richard.

[brossard]

You seem to be doing what I did, build stock while mulling over what the layout should be.  There are a lot of 0 gauge layouts in small spaces here.  I am building a small (10' long) layout that is canal dock themed.  It will be freight only.  I have learned that passenger ops take a great deal of space and are not that interesting, shunting goods wagons is far more interesting.

 

When I started I told myself that I would only build the wagons I "needed".  Didn't take long for that to go out the window.  I have a few RTR wagons from Dapol, but most of them are kits (Parkside, Slaters, Kirk, JLTRT and even some etched brass).  Wagon building is addictive and there are still wagons that I haven't got to.

 

John

 

Edit:  an afterthought.  I quite like pre-grouping, however, the availability of stock is not great.  I chose BR ca 1962 as my era because locos and wagons are plentiful.  Part of the planning process is to see what can be obtained fairly easily.

 

I'll leave you with this:

 

 

NBR passenger train I have been working on for a friend.  Loco is Connoisseur and bought second hand.  Not normally something I would advocate but he lucked out and it is a keeper.  It has a DCC decoder and is a good runner.

 

The coaches are from 62C and etched brass.  There's a 4 wheeled 3rd brake and 6 wheeled compo.  These were very interesting to build.  I still need to add interiors to finish.  There's another 4 wheeler on my to do shelf and yet another 6 wheeler on it's way.  No pressure though.

 

 

A later shot, now with transfers.

 

John

Edited November 26, 2021 by brossard

[47137]

I too am telling myself I will only build the wagons I "need". If this is the case then this 1892 box van must be the very latest one in my 1890 setting. I can see a risk of "period creep" if I am careless. On the bright side the external framing does give this one a Victorian sort of a look.

 

I have added the roof, brake levers, primer and buffers:

 

 

The camera has found one flaw in one corner for me, and one buffer head is drooping already  - not sure why.

 

I am very tempted to keep this as the final coat for the body and solebars and finish with the transfers and some satin varnish. Or perhaps varnish, transfers, more varnish. I can go out and buy some middling-grey gloss but I'm not sure if it will enhance the model much. I realise I can only do this once (other wagons wanting different shades of grey) but the temptation is there. I wonder if using only primer will wear well enough.

 

- Richard.

[brossard]

Primer does seem to bring out the detail (and show up blemishes, as it should do).  I have the same issue with my camera in that it can find issues that I miss.

 

As to colour, E.F. Carter says that goods wagons in 1913 were "medium grey", whatever that is.  I spray a coat of gloss varnish prior to adding transfers and a coat of matte varnish afterwards.  This seals the transfers very well and evens out the finish.  If you weather the van, the actual shade of grey won't be obvious.

 

My friend got the HMRS sheet of transfers - https://hmrs.org.uk/transfers/scottish-pre-grouping-goods-vehicle-insignia-150433.html

 

John

 

[47137]

Perhaps "medium grey" means equal quantities of white and black paint. This is the formulation of NATO grey. Add a little red or blue to give it some character.

 

I think all stock however new it is represented needs to be weathered. I have travelled on some of the FLIRT trains on Greater Anglia this year, and while they were pristine when delivered - even the underframes had sharply-defined "detail parts" - a gentle coating of brown dirt appeared soon enough, starting at the bottom and working its way up onto the bodywork. It actually looked as though it had been airbrushed on.

 

I expect I will practice weathering on some old 00 or H0 models before tackling my 0 gauge wagons.

 

- Richard.

[brossard]

I certainly agree that all stock should be weathered.  Care needs to be taken (in my case anyway) to avoid overdoing it.  I use an airbrush and acrylic colours, black and "earth" mostly.  Umber and black powder on the solebars and axleguards with a smattering of rust on the brakes. 

 

I now like to start my weathering with enamel black wash (Tamiya Panel Lining but there are others).  Being enamel, it may affect your base colour if it's from a rattle can so be sure and test.  The black wash gets mostly washed off after curing overnight with white spirit (NOT enamel thinner) to leave a nice effect in the crevices.

 

John

[47137]

One more photo to maybe finish this topic and show how the model turned out:

 

I have tried to make the lighting as critical as I can, and I am still pleased with the result. The "pillar" holding the loose axle is all but invisible.

 

I wish I had more confidence. I spent a week pondering whether to add a coat of grey top coat and what shade this should be because I felt the shade of the primer was about right but I have no idea how well it will wear. In the end I put the transfers onto the primer, waited a couple of days and today added some enamel satin varnish.

 

The running number is fictional, just four consecutive digits from the transfers. There is a part of me which wants to pick out all of the ironwork on the body in a shade of black but I understand the prototype did not do this so I must settle for simplicity.

 

Unusually for me this wagon has brakes on both sides so I have modelled one side with the brake applied and one side for running. This is my fourth wagon kit for 0 gauge.

 

- Richard.

[brossard]

That looks lovely to me Richard.  As you build more wagons your confidence will increase with it.

 

John

[Ian Kirk]

Well done your wagon looks to me exactly like the original last time I saw it.  I should explain that I am not quite as old as that but this kit was originally in my range. Then Parkside, now Peco.  Pete Westwater who did the original detail tooling (I completed it to run on one of my machines) had actually bought a 12 inch to the foot example which had been until then in use at a government establishment. This was duly repainted into NBR livery pretty well exactly as you have it (I can't remember the number) and is now preserved at the Kingdom of Fife Preservation Society. We got the painting details from a works photo showing one of these just finished by the builders Hurst Nelson of Motherwell.  I tried to find the photo but so far no luck. I have gathered an awful lot of stuff in my 50+ years in the Trade.

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

[Dava]

There is one at Bo'ness in the SRPS museum as well. I always think of Ian when I’m building one of those early Parkside kits. Should have done a Caley  van as well! 
 

Dava

[47137]

On 06/12/2021 at 21:24, Ian Kirk said:

Well done your wagon looks to me exactly like the original last time I saw it.  I should explain that I am not quite as old as that but this kit was originally in my range. Then Parkside, now Peco.  Pete Westwater who did the original detail tooling (I completed it to run on one of my machines) had actually bought a 12 inch to the foot example which had been until then in use at a government establishment. This was duly repainted into NBR livery pretty well exactly as you have it (I can't remember the number) and is now preserved at the Kingdom of Fife Preservation Society. We got the painting details from a works photo showing one of these just finished by the builders Hurst Nelson of Motherwell.  I tried to find the photo but so far no luck. I have gathered an awful lot of stuff in my 50+ years in the Trade.

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

 

Ian, I could not ask for a better accolade, but really a great deal of the success of this model is down to the first-rate mouldings ... the credit is due to Pete and yourself who did the tooling, and to Peco who have supplied absolutely spot-on parts.

 

I have bought the Peco/Parkside "Jubilee" wagon to try in the New Year.

 

- Richard.

Edited December 13, 2021 by 47137