How to lose a railway

[pH]

Does this remind you of any British railway - the last line built between certain major centres, well-engineered, the fastest route between some of these centres, partially-electrified main line, closed completely before any of its competitors? It sounds more than a bit like the Great Central, but there is an important difference. The Great Central was abandoned as a result of definite planning decisions. Whether these decisions were correct or not isn’t really relevant to the point – conscious decisions were made that lines were no longer needed and should be closed. The Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad (The Milwaukee Road) across the northwestern American states closed because of (at best) incompetence and lack of initiative in the boardroom. Imagine losing a transcontinental railroad for reasons like that!

 

I spent a couple of weeks recently on a ‘road trip’ through several US states. For hundreds of miles through Montana, Idaho and Washington you could see parts of the old trackbed of the Milwaukee Road’s Puget Sound Extension, in places converted to biking or walking paths, but in other places completely derelict. It prompted me to go back to read again the history of the railroad’s decline, final bankruptcy and closure. I had forgotten just how amazing the story was. It is quite long, but if you read this account of the last 35 years of the Milwaukee, I defy you not to shake your head in complete disbelief at least a couple of times along the way.

 

The Milwaukee has been described as every American railfan’s second favourite railroad (thank you for that editorial quote – you know who you are!) – steam, diesel and electric traction, standard and narrow gauge, tremendous engineering works – well worth looking at IMO.

[Adrian Wintle]

I came across some lovely concrete arch viaducts marching across a valley on a drive south of Spokane, WA a few years ago. They had an almost British look to them. I discovered afterwards that they were part of the Pacific extension.

Adrian

[signalmaintainer]

The Milwaukee has been described as every American railfan’s second favourite railroad (thank you for that editorial quote – you know who you are!) – steam, diesel and electric traction, standard and narrow gauge, tremendous engineering works – well worth looking at IMO.

That's going into the Wayback Machine a bit -- seems so anyway!

[Welly]

Publicity film of the Milwaukee Road "Olympian Hiawatha" that I watched recently. ( It's 41 minutes long )

 

Olympian Hiawatha

 

De-wiring to recover the scrap value of the copper??? Unbelievable!

[dave1905]

I used to work for the the last superintedent of the electrified division on the Milwaukee after he left them and went to another RR. He said the problem was the MILW used wooden poles for the electrified district and they had so many that were rotting out and termite infested at the same time that couldn't justify the expense of more or less rebuilding the entire pole system. That and modern diesels made the electric sections more or less obsolete and expensive (why have 3 sets of power when one will do). So the wires came down.

[pH]

That’s interesting to hear an inside view, Dave. There’s a summary of a report on a survey of the Milwaukee’s electrification, prepared when de-electrification was being considered, on this page. (Look about ¾ of the way down for a section headed ‘The end of the Milwaukee electrification - a Contributing Monograph’ by Michael Sol). This says that the poles, while not in great shape themselves, were being held up pretty well by treated stubs. But remember that GE, when the Milwaukee were talking of taking down the wires, offered to finance the renewal of the electrification and the closing of the non-electrified ‘gap’. (Washington Water Power apparently offered a similar deal in the 1960s.) Closing the gap would have meant only one change, from electric to diesel or vice-versa, at the eastern end of the electrification. Studies show that renewing and closing the gap would have paid for itself in 11 years with operating costs as they were before the first oil shock, and in only 4 years with costs as they turned out to be after that.

 

There was another cost associated with the shutting down of the electrification. All electricity supplied by Montana Power to the Milwaukee was at very low rates, on the condition that the railroad used electric locomotives. When the electrification was de-commissioned, this deal came to an end, rates for power went up, and the railroad’s electricity bill without the electrics was actually more than it had been when they were running. In effect, the ‘fuel’ for the locomotives had been cheaper than free!

 

It looks as if successive Milwaukee boards of directors just did not want to run a railroad.

[Suzie]

The parallels of this with not just the great central, but a very particular part of it that went ten years later! 

[Ozexpatriate]

There was another cost associated with the shutting down of the electrification. All electricity supplied by Montana Power to the Milwaukee was at very low rates, on the condition that the railroad used electric locomotives. When the electrification was de-commissioned, this deal came to an end, rates for power went up, and the railroad’s electricity bill without the electrics was actually more than it had been when they were running. In effect, the ‘fuel’ for the locomotives had been cheaper than free!

 

It looks as if successive Milwaukee boards of directors just did not want to run a railroad.

On the west end of the extension (Pacific Coast Division - Tacoma to Othello), I would expect that electricity costs were pretty low as well. I don't know who supplied the Milwaukee Road with power on the west end but with all the hydro-electric power available in Washington I expect it was relatively inexpensive.

 

The Bipolars (EP-2) were amazing machines. Compare their 3,180 hp with the LMS twins at 1,600 hp or an EMD F3 at 1,500 hp and this power was available in 1919!

[pH]

I don't know who supplied the Milwaukee Road with power on the west end but with all the hydro-electric power available in Washington I expect it was relatively inexpensive.

From this special 1973 supplement to The Milwaukee Road Magazine:

"Electrical power for the system is provided by the Montana Power Company, the Washington Water Power Company and the Puget Sound Power and Light Company."

 

 

 

[John M]

There are some interesting parallels between the behavior of Milwaukee Road management in the 1970s with the Leverage Buyouts and assett stripping by Private Equity Companies in recent years. Tranz Rail in New Zealand indulged in similar behavior in an effort to prop up the share price before it collapsed around 2002.

 

The abandonment of a competing route seems to have been very convenient for the BN with two parallel routse across Montana and Washington, interestingly BNSF uses the Milwaukee Line East of Miles City as a feeder to the former NP Line across Montana.

 

John

[number6]

Fascinating reading that. Sounds a bit like short-selling and the bundled toxic assets of today

And makes me think of Michael Moore's movie Capitalism - and the myth of the market economy - he could do a good one on America's railways.

[Talltim]

A 'what if' still electrified Milwaukee set in the present day would make an interesting model. Would they have turned to European manufacturers for their locos or would they have some hugely powerful US built monsters?

 

 

[signalmaintainer]

I'm thinking they would have turned to GE for something, along the lines of the E60.

[pH]

Or maybe something like BC Rail's GMD GF6Cs? - lots of standard SD40-2 parts.

[dave1905]

A 'what if' still electrified Milwaukee set in the present day would make an interesting model. Would they have turned to European manufacturers for their locos or would they have some hugely powerful US built monsters?

It would probably be a partnership between a European and N American manufacturer. The underframes, draft gear , control cab and some truck components on European locomotives are unsuitable and potentially illegal in the US. US firms don't have the experience or production lines in the electrical systems. So it would be a conventional "US" AC locomotive with a modified US hood covering European electrical gear.

 

Since they would be extremely limited production runs, they would be hugely expensive. On the other hand, since the majority of the engine was made of stock locomotive parts, it would have performance that wouldn't be much different than a regular AC diesel it was derived from. And since only part of the route was electrified, it would require 2 sets of locomotives per train plus the delays to change power, another economic disadvantage.

 

Going to the other end of the country. The MILW had a very poor infrastructure and relatively small operation and abandoned electrification, while on the former PRR they had a huge, robust infrastructure and a large electrified operation, and they still abandoned freight electrification. Don't underestimate the economics of having to change engines. Right now one set of engines can pull a train from the west coast to the east coast with only 2 brief stops enroute to refuel.

[k-59]

It would probably be a partnership between a European and N American manufacturer. The underframes, draft gear , control cab and some truck components on European locomotives are unsuitable and potentially illegal in the US. US firms don't have the experience or production lines in the electrical systems. So it would be a conventional "US" AC locomotive with a modified US hood covering European electrical gear.

 

Since they would be extremely limited production runs, they would be hugely expensive. On the other hand, since the majority of the engine was made of stock locomotive parts, it would have performance that wouldn't be much different than a regular AC diesel it was derived from. And since only part of the route was electrified, it would require 2 sets of locomotives per train plus the delays to change power, another economic disadvantage.

 

Going to the other end of the country. The MILW had a very poor infrastructure and relatively small operation and abandoned electrification, while on the former PRR they had a huge, robust infrastructure and a large electrified operation, and they still abandoned freight electrification. Don't underestimate the economics of having to change engines. Right now one set of engines can pull a train from the west coast to the east coast with only 2 brief stops enroute to refuel.

Another case in Europe is trans nations freight trains. And really the MILW western line was a poorly thought out idea form start to finish. I'm glad it's gone.

[Suzie]

Or maybe something like BC Rail's GMD GF6Cs? - lots of standard SD40-2 parts.

 

Ah well, if a modern and presumably state of the art electrification system like the 50KV 60Hz Tumbler Ridge line with its 6000HP locos (just a tad more powerful than your traditional Co-Co diesel) gets scrapped after eighteen years because of a temporary downturn in traffic (line would appear to be busy again now, but with diesels in the unventilated tunnels!), there is probably no hope for the future of electrification.

 

 

No business looks more than three months ahead any more, not even those which rely on long term investment for their future, especially those still in the hands of government.

 

 

[signalmaintainer]

I'm glad it's gone.

Must be lonely on your island. ...

[F-UnitMad]

The Milwaukee has been described as every American railfan’s second favourite railroad

Definitely for me B) although really because of a strange attraction to the "Bandit" patch jobs the SOO applied to Ex-MILW engines after they took it over in '85.

It is a constant source of amazement to me that some of those Bandits are still running around to this day in such an increasingly decrepit "livery"..!!

[298]

Ah well, if a modern and presumably state of the art electrification system like the 50KV 60Hz Tumbler Ridge line with its 6000HP locos (just a tad more powerful than your traditional Co-Co diesel) gets scrapped after eighteen years because of a temporary downturn in traffic (line would appear to be busy again now, but with diesels in the unventilated tunnels!), there is probably no hope for the future of electrification.

 

 

I'm sure the Milwaukee would have de-electrified anyway, the scrap value of all that copper was far too tempting and who could have foreseen the impending oil crisis....?

 

Another "what if..?" was the Union Pacific's and other RR's plans to electrify their high iron, which could have lead to this:

 

http://www.trains.com/ctr/objects/images/railroad_electrification_1970s.gif

 

Full article at:

 

http://www.trains.com/ctr/default.aspx?c=a&id=43

[peach james]

Fuel costs are not the only driver in the cost of operation. Electric locos dispense with the diesel portion...believe me, I've spent a few hours working on the "diesel" portion of generators . (oh, and on the "Steam" portion too...).

 

The question is if it would have been worth it- the answer probably lies more in the ""lines west"" themselves, than the choice of traction. The cost of hydro to supply everything else could have been a major driving factor in retaining electric operation- as was undoubtedly the cost of actually fixing the existing structure, and filling the gap. (which would have made a lot of sense...).

 

I've read a fair amount about MILW, but my heart would not be set on modeling midwestern modeling- ACR in the mid 80's would be where it would be for a North American model.

 

There is considerable conjecture as to what sections of MILW were making and what were loosing money- it didn't help that maintanance was differred for basically the entire time the lines west were in existance.

 

James

[John M]

Fuel costs are not the only driver in the cost of operation. Electric locos dispense with the diesel portion...believe me, I've spent a few hours working on the "diesel" portion of generators . (oh, and on the "Steam" portion too...).

 

The question is if it would have been worth it- the answer probably lies more in the ""lines west"" themselves, than the choice of traction. The cost of hydro to supply everything else could have been a major driving factor in retaining electric operation- as was undoubtedly the cost of actually fixing the existing structure, and filling the gap. (which would have made a lot of sense...).

 

I've read a fair amount about MILW, but my heart would not be set on modeling midwestern modeling- ACR in the mid 80's would be where it would be for a North American model.

 

There is considerable conjecture as to what sections of MILW were making and what were loosing money- it didn't help that maintanance was differred for basically the entire time the lines west were in existance.

 

James

 

I spent a couple of months gricing in the Dakota's and Montana principally the CP exSOO and BNSF Hill Lines in 2004 my impresson was that away from its Chicago-Milwaukee-St Paul Route and the main line East of Miles City the Milwaukee and to a degree the CNWR were largely Grainger Roads surrounded by the Burlington, GN & NP Lines.

 

Interestingly the remaining lines serve to link the MidWest with the Pacific Ports and the coal mines in Montana and Wyoming with Power Plants in the Midwest.

 

The lines to Fargo and Rapid City are probably good examples of Milwaukee Grainger Lines, apart from an odd isolated Elevator and some industrial spurs in Fargo and Fairmount the Fargo Line has mainly been ploughed up, in the same area of North Dakota the NP & GN grain line are operated by Regional Red River Valley and Western with venerable ex Burlington GP20Cs.

 

By 2004 the Rapid City line with its impressive crossing of the Missouri River at Chamberlain was partially abandoned, short line operator Dakota Southern had largely ceased operation of the line west of Mitchell SD.

 

Dakota Southern Main Line West End of Mitchell Yard SD.

In contrast to the viaduct track appeared poor even by the standards of the typical Dakota Short Line. Track formation on the embankment at the east end of Chamberlain Yard showed signs settlement, locos and stock stored on the Siding clear of the main line were liting at an alarming angle.

 

The Dakota Southern appears to have operated largely with SD7or9 units and a GE70 doubtfull the PW would have supported anything heavier. Further East at Dell Rapids SD a gaggle of Milwaukee cabeese survived on shortline Dakota and Iowa.

 

Milwaukee Cabeese in service as offices Dell Rapids South Dakota.

 

 

Ex IC? Geeps masquerading as Milwaukee Units, Dell Raipds SD 2004.

 

The Dakota Southern yard at Camberlain had something of the atmosphere of modern day Colonel Stephens Line apart from the SDs and GEs Chamberlain was also home of a UP Centennial and an ex SOO ex CMSPPR GP30 on AAR trucks.

 

 

John

[k-59]

Must be lonely on your island. ...

Not really i have my father with me. We were just talking about how the MILW had to maintain substations every 15 miles and keep the wires up in heavy snow.

[Talltim]

The Swiss seem to cope

[Adrian Wintle]

The Swiss seem to cope

 

The Swiss actually do this in areas where there are people and roads, and over much shorter distances...

 

The Pacific extension was perhaps a step (or a few leaps) too far for the Milwaukee Road.

 

Adrian