2FS - Smokey Bacon

[SteveBedding]

Thanks Andy & Kris - they're good points and well worth addressing. Seeing some of the layouts at TINGS was more inspiration to get my act together and crack on with the layout...

 

A bit of further digging (I thought I had a picture that showed the area…) I found this picture that showed entrance to the private sidings during some work in 1932.

 

Entrance to Private Sidings, Calne, c1932 (Calne Town Council)

 

As can be seen halfway up the picture on the far left side, the access track was hard up against the end of the loading dock and actually crossed rails before the turnout. For some reason, I had it in my head that the access track was parallel to the fence-line (leading from the weighbridge), rather than straight across the rails from the goods shed .

 

 

Oops – that isn’t going to be possible!!

 

OK, back to the land of compromise (modeller’s licence called for here…). Not criticising the OS for their hard work, without which I would have been completely snookered, but I consider that there may be some ‘discrepancy’ between the map and reality. That coupled with any errors that I may have introduced in the merging of the OS Map and the GWR 40’ plan and the compression of the layout, make an exactly ‘true copy’ of this detail not possible…

 

 

Prevailing thought (I’m still open to suggestions) is to go use the A6 turnout BUT, move the access track a ‘little’ towards the south east… … same functionality but minimises difficulties in having the road interfere with the turnout blades. I suspect that I’m going to have to be creative with guard rails.

 

One thing that is becoming blindingly obvious to me in this discussion is that I need a glossary or dictionary of railway terms! I suspect that I am frequently getting confused/wrong the names of bits of track so please bear with me whilst I go back and try to learn the correct names .

[RedgateModels]

have you considered using a tighter rad point so that the blades will be beyond the crossing in it's "real" position? what type of locos are you expecting to negotiate this point, if it's only tank engines etc then a tighter point might prove to be a compromise worth taking ....

[SteveBedding]

Hi Redgate,

 

The loco's will be (normally) small GWR 6-coupled tanks, primarily 57xx/8750 but possibly 36xx, 54xx, 56xx (if/when I can get round to making them), also, if I was to take the layout to the 'end of the line' (ie c1965) then BR Class 03's would be in use.

 

The original plan was to look at A5/18" min radius but this clashed with the access track, hence deliberation on options; it didn't help my visualising the access track in the wrong place to start with! A further possibility is A5/17" or 16" min radius which I'm going to look at later - these are private sidings and I think could be forgiven for their 'tightness'

[RedgateModels]

these are private sidings and I think could be forgiven for their 'tightness'

 

absolutely B) you should see the tightness of points I'm contemplating for my O gauge harbour layout (equivolent of OO gauge rad 1) - but then I will only be running an L&Y Pug

[Kris]

Steve, have you considered putting the road in the correct place but moving the point towards the factory? I don't know how this would impact on the plan but it looks like this could be possible. If you were to do this then it may be desirable to make this a curved point. Although the OS map has it as a straight unit the photo makes it look like it could have been curved.

[SteveBedding]

Steve, have you considered putting the road in the correct place but moving the point towards the factory? I don't know how this would impact on the plan but it looks like this could be possible. If you were to do this then it may be desirable to make this a curved point. Although the OS map has it as a straight unit the photo makes it look like it could have been curved.

 

Kris you must be a mind reader!

 

Having posted the picture I saw, as you did, what could have been a slight curve on the point. After a little bit of further jiggling and replacing the 'entry' point with a curved A6 it can be made to look like the prototype.

 

 

In order to achieve this, I have to accept a min radius of 17.9" on the upper leg of the point (marked Harris 1a), but considering I had been going down the rabbit hole of 16-17" radii earlier, this is quite tolerable

 

Many thanks to you all for the encouragement and observations, they have helped me enormously in getting this element if not 'right' then at least not too badly wrong...

[Pilgrimsjulie]

Well I thought you was suppose to be working from home yesterday not playing trains!!!! Then again I really not mind. Well with Kris' comment about Christmas coming soon.....I really wouldn't mind one of those grass thingys as long as I got a new train too!!!!though think that would be wishful thinking:P Any suggestions what I can get for 'Smokey Bacon' would be greatfully received!!

[Kris]

I think that the last plan looks better like that Steve.

[SteveBedding]

:lol:

 

Good progress Steve - look forward to see the track going down...presume you are going the easitrac route, turnouts included?

 

EDIT - Doh - reread the thread again and it answered my question...that's what comes from reading posts on the iPhone...the iPad would solve that one...

 

Pete

 

Apologies for not answering you earlier, I got caught up in the discussions with Kris regarding the entrance to the private sidings and clean forgot to answer your post ...

 

...the track-work...

 

As you identified, I'm intending to use Easitrac (code 40 Bullhead & wooden sleepers) for the layout, but with some some slight variations:

 

1. Points will be made (in situ ? - TBD) using the individual ABS sleeper strips rather than the association milled turnout bases (for reasons of economy...),

 

2. Turnout tie-bars to be made from 'thinned' PCB sleepers rather than the Easitrac mechanism - economy, simplicity, and easier to throw using Tortoise motors,

 

3. Milled PCB sleeper blocks, with 'Versaline' etch plates and cosmetic chairs, over the board joints (these are going to be home-made - there's another learning experience for me

),

 

4. Single PCB/Versaline chair combinations to provide power feeds to individual sections of track rather than the brass Easitrac sleepers - again partly for economy but mostly because I remember how cack-handed I used to be trying to solder droppers to OO set-track and melting the plastic chairs...

 

5. The north side of loading or cattle dock (closest to station/platform) was embedded in concrete (to make cleaning up easier after wagon loads of worried pigs that had just realised where they were off to next...

) and kept it's original Flat-Bottom track when the station track was relaid in the early 1900's. This will probably be laid directly on PCB as the sleeper work was covered.

Well, that's the cunning plan... I hope this makes sense, shout if you thinks I'm going off down a rabbit hole (again)

[Kris]

Steve, I have built one easitrack point from the strips. Having done this, I say that it is much better to do this in situ rather than try to move them.

[SteveBedding]

Kris, thanks for the top tip

 

I had considered building the turnouts 'off-line' by sticking the sleeper strips to acetate sheets (OHP film) but suspected that this would cause issues with 'thickness'; your prompt advice has saved me future nugatory effort - Many thanks

 

Track-Bed Underside (Continued)

 

With the undercoat & varnishing completed on framework for board 2 it was ready to fix the track-bed. Some minor adjustments with the sander were required to get the cross pieces to the right height – having stuck the track plan and copper tape, and varnished the underside of the track-bed, it was now slightly ‘thicker’ than before – still, easily compensated for…

 

Board 2 track-bed fitted – still needs final cork layer…

 

Board 2 frameworks primed and sealed – the other boards will be pre-treated in the same manor – it’s a lot easier to paint the major bits before the whole thing is fixed!

 

Detail of underside – shows how the mirrored track plan and copper tape electrical ‘buses’ run the length of the underside of the track-bed; this would not have been possible to do if the track-bed had been fixed to the framework first.

 

Now board 2 is ‘structurally’ complete and the top surface sanded ‘true’, it can be used as the baseline against which to set and fix the track-beds for boards 1 and 3. The joints between the boards can be ‘fine-tuned’ with the bolts and brass interlocking dowels fitted. Finally, the profiles for the end panels at the joints (including the ‘spares’ for board 3) can be shaped to match the terrain. At this point, the cork underlay and ‘final’ Templot track plan can fixed down.

 

When this is all done, except for the front fascia and scenic back panels, the major construction & carpentry should be finished…

 

…at which point I crash out of my comfort zone and have to start learning new skills!

 

But before I go any further, a hallelujah moment is needed! OK, I measured the car, planned/sized the boards accordingly, BUT, does it actually fit?

 

HALLELUJAH – it does

 

 

The intention is to make transit panels that will fit to the ends of the boards; 1 & 3 facing inwards, with 2 in the middle – the overall ‘height’ of the package is anticipated to be around 40†or less which clears the top of the doorway and as can be seen, the width fits nicely in the boot. There is still space for stock boxes, tools, legs etc.

 

Well, now it's in the car, and it's club night... ...I'm taking it to show off and be smug!!!

[bcnPete]

Steve - no worries...it reminded me to reread op's before asking dumb questions! Many thanks for the very detailed reply though - it sounds good what you are proposing and I think insitu also sounds good too. I found the tip from Trevor H, to include a few PCB strips in the mix around the common frog area for electrical + strength purposes to be very useful...but being ham fisted and not having 20-20 vision, I resorted back to all PCB for my last turnout

 

I must say the woodwork looks very well crafted (is that a requirement to join the Oxford group, as Mark and Missy also have that too!) and I really look forward to seeing the track getting laid - who knows, if you complete that by crimble, then Santa might deliver some locos for thorough testing purposes only

[2mm Andy]

Steve,

 

I would be careful about using cork underlay for the trackwork - other 2mm modellers have reported that it can be a bit too flexible for 2mm track, and Easitrac is nowhere near as stiff as soldered track, so might be a bit prone to moving about. I would suggest thin balsa or plywood. If you do decide to use cork, I would varnish it so that it doesn't soak up the glue you use for ballasting.

 

HTH

 

Andy

[SteveBedding]

I would be careful about using cork underlay for the trackwork - other 2mm modellers have reported that it can be a bit too flexible for 2mm track, and Easitrac is nowhere near as stiff as soldered track, so might be a bit prone to moving about. I would suggest thin balsa or plywood. If you do decide to use cork, I would varnish it so that it doesn't soak up the glue you use for ballasting.

 

Andy

 

Thanks for the observation; I’ve not heard about this with cork before.

 

What exactly do you mean by ‘flexible’? I’ve used normal cork tiles (both as full tiles and cut into strips) on N and OO layouts before and have not had any issues previously. I had been intending to use 3mm cork tiles fixed to the 6mm ply surface (using normal PVA wood glue), but as I expected to have to sand the surface again (smooth out joints and other discrepancies…), I know that I would have to size the surface (like wallpapering) to prevent excessive glue absorption later.

 

I can understand balsa as an alternative (I have also used this for specific areas on layouts) but why ply as an ‘underlay’ when it is already on a ply surface? Also as to ‘varnishing’ the surface, how does this affect the adhesion of the PVA used when fixing the Easitrac and ballast given that it is a smooth non-absorbing surface…

 

These may be fairly basic questions but as I alluded to earlier, this is a big step for me in moving from layouts that are more RTP/toy train to one that could be considered ‘finescale’ – please feel free to slap me if I’m completely missing the point…

 

Cheers

[2mm Andy]

I think the main reasons are that 2mm track doesn't use fishplates (unlike N and 00 gauge track) and so track alignment is dependent on the track being fairly well fixed down to a rigid surface - the more rigidly it is fixed down the less chance there is of track joints going out of alignment. 2mm track is pretty weak and Easitrac more so than soldered pcb track.

 

I should perhaps have been a bit clearer about 'varnishing' the trackbed - primer paint would probably work as well, and wouldn't be shiny. It just needs something to stop the trackbed possibly swelling and distorting the track if you're using dilute pva glue to fix the ballast down.

 

The use of ply/balsa/cork is partly to allow the ballast shoulder to be modelled (ie. the track is slightly raised up from surrounding ground). In reality this only really occurs on the main lines, so I think you could get away with gluing the track down onto the ply of the baseboards if you wanted to.

 

Because I'm using Easitrac for the first time on my layout, I've built a couple of small pieces of trackwork on offcuts of ply to test my ideas before committing on a bigger scale (and potentially making expensive mistakes) - it might be worth doing a few tests to see what works best for you.

 

If you haven't already done so, it is worth joining the 2mm Scale Assoc 'Virtual Area Group' - there are lots of far more experienced 2mm modellers on there who are usually willing to answer most questions.

 

Andy

 

 

[SteveBedding]

Andy

 

Thanks for the clarification - it's starting to make sense now ...

 

I need the ballast shoulder on about a third of the length of the layout, hence the planned use of cork 'underlay' (plus the benefits of being able to recess the platforms and buildings into the ground within the station and factory areas); so having given your comments some further thought, I'm now going to look at the possibility of using 2mm ply (normally for model a/c and boat construction...). This is available in wider sheets than balsa and in 1200mm lengths.

 

Unfortunately the works IT system prevents access to the 2mm VAG (probably just as well as I’d be distracted far too often...) so I’ll have to wait till I get home tonight before plumbing that goldmine; I have several other questions on Easitrac that I wanted to air on that forum and I’ll update this when I’ve got the answers.

 

Thanks again (another pothole identified and possibly avoided)

[Pilgrimsjulie]

Does this mean that it will be another night out then if he joins this site too!!!!Though I must admit that any help and advice will probably be most appreciated!!!

[Foulounoux]

As a recent ie only 10 years ago incomer to Calne this is fascinating !

 

Now I know where things were rather than where I guessed they were

 

Colin

[Pilgrimsjulie]

So is that a suggest of what SWMBO can get 'Smokey Bacon' for christmas then!!!!!

[SteveBedding]

As a recent ie only 10 years ago incomer to Calne this is fascinating !

 

Now I know where things were rather than where I guessed they were

 

Colin

Colin,

 

Nice to know its providing local interest . I'm 'semi' local myself, Hilmarton in the early '70s, Compton Bassett, Calne, Colerne '00-'08, and just moved back to Lyneham about 4 months ago. I just can't seem to keep away...

 

 

So is that a suggest of what SWMBO can get 'Smokey Bacon' for christmas then!!!!!

 

Well dear, if you're offering in open forum (somebody witness this please ) then half a dozen BR Diag 1/353 standard 8 ton cattle wagons wouldn't go amiss... :clapping_mini:

[Kris]

Colin,

 

Nice to know its providing local interest . I'm 'semi' local myself, Hilmarten in the early '70s, Compton Bassett, Calne, Colerne '00-'08, and just moved back to Lyneham about 4 months ago. I just can't seem to keep away...

 

 

 

 

Well dear, if you're offering in open forum (somebody witness this please ) then half a dozen BR Diag 1/353 standard 8 ton cattle wagon wouldn't go amiss... :clapping_mini:

 

Witnessed as requested

 

On another point, I know you asked on the VAG but for easy track lengths, 500mm is no problem at all. I have made lengths of just over 1200mm using bullhead rail. This length suited the lenght of the board I was using, So far no issues with this. length. I would not want to go much longer as it becomes very unwieldy and frankly a right pain to make.

[SteveBedding]

Witnessed as requested

 

On another point, I know you asked on the VAG but for easy track lengths, 500mm is no problem at all. I have made lengths of just over 1200mm using bullhead rail. This length suited the lenght of the board I was using, So far no issues with this. length. I would not want to go much longer as it becomes very unwieldy and frankly a right pain to make.

 

Thanks Kris, now I just have to get SWMBO to accept the fait accompli...

 

Following observations by Andy earlier, I have been reconsidering the issue with cork underlay and practical lengths for laying Easitrac; I know the purists/rivet counters may say 60ft/120mm, but that would negate the benefits of Easitrac. From what was been said, I think I have a way forward:

 

1. Use 3mm ply fixed to the existing ply surface, trimmed and chamfered slightly narrower than the nominal track bed ballast width; this will allow for the scenic build up to run over the board surface, up to the 'underlay'. The ballasting can then cover the 'underlay' and join to the landscape (use of 3mm ply also means that I can use normal 3mm cork for those areas within the station and sidings that are mainly flat - ie the the gravel/cinder areas alongside the track).

2. Easitrac lengths do not appear to be a constraint. The layout plan calls for 3 stretches of about 1m, but the majority fall in the range 200mm - 600mm; I would aim for a maximum single section length of around 240mm to 300mm (may be initially laid in 500mm strips, but when dry cut to an appropriate interval).

I now have to wait for the Easitrac to arrive, but I have a mental appreciation of how to proceed.

[Kris]

I now have to wait for the Easitrac to arrive, but I have a mental appreciation of how to proceed.

 

 

Have fun with the track when it turns up, it is very easy to use. As was also said on linking the two ends of the rail mid easitrack panel makes things much easier.

 

 

[bcnPete]

Interesting concept this dual thread posting...last time I saw that was in RMWeb 3, with Kevin (aka SithLord) posting his N and 2mm stuff with interjections from his wife, until she decided to set up her own thread for her project...shame, as I miss that on RMWeb 4...but this seems to be a good replacement

 

On the Easitrac, I found the latest 500mm straight lengths great to work with as I always struggled straightening the curved rail...for me, 120mm lengths are good for starter packs...but all those joints may prove vulnerable in exhibition conditions...I am recalling the heat on the second day of the 2FS expo courtesy of the BMS...just a thought...

[Pilgrimsjulie]

Well as SWMBO has seen the post now and Kris has witnessed it then I guess I better start working a few more hours and saving hard then!!!!! So how much more easitrac has been ordered then!!!!Enough to be well on the way for 'Smokey Bacon' I hope....I am looking forward to seeing the next instalment of photos to see how far it has got since I last seen it.... I am still waiting so that I can do some work away from home....waiting for tree ideas etc!!!to wing there way to me.