Coldstream (ex-NER, P4, c.1950): space & time?

[Tim Lewis]

A while since my last post. Slow progress as usual, but the first turnout is now more or less complete, at least the bits above the baseboard.

 

 

 

Not the most perfect piece of point work in the world, but a passable interpretation of an NER sleepered turnout I think, and a test vehicle seems to run through it OK.

 

I was fairly happy with how the 'narrow' chairs turned out (no pun intended!), i.e those where there's two on the same sleeper. These are cut down GWR (aarrghh!) 2-bolt chairs, which aren't the correct pattern, but give the right impression. Cutting them down was a bit fiddly.

 

 

 

You can see that I still need to add a couple of back-heel chairs. You can also see the phosphor-bronze wire providing electrical continuity between the switch blade and the tongue rail: I didn't want to rely just on the heel joint itself (which is an Exactoscale brass fishplate).

 

This has taken quite a long time, but I've learned a lot as I went along, and I hope that things might speed up a bit!

Edited January 31, 2023 by Tim Lewis
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[DougN]

Th interlaced sleepers on that point looks really good. I know that I am getting closer to needing to do some trackwork. Did you use the templot to do the "template"for the pointwork? I think I might just build one for practise and fun!

[iak]

Now that looks tasty.

Interlaced pointwork has that extra "mmmmmmmm" factor.

Mind it is something I will need to get my head round eventually!

[Tim Lewis]

Th interlaced sleepers on that point looks really good. I know that I am getting closer to needing to do some trackwork. Did you use the templot to do the "template"for the pointwork? I think I might just build one for practise and fun!

 

Yes it was all done in Templot, which is a wonderful program once you get your head round it. I constructed my own templates for NER turnouts (1 in 6/7/8 and 9) based on information from the NERA standards book. It took quite a while, but I can (obviously) re-use them as many times as I need. I believe that you can now download some from the Templot site (which, if Martin's done them, are probably a better job than mine!!).

[DougN]

Thanks Tim. I have templot... only trouble is the time to use it.... I wish I could buy time to do just that!

[Tim Lewis]

Across the Great Divide! (well, onto board 2 anyway)

 

SWMBO is away for a couple of days, so I took advantage and made a mess of the living room. I don't normally have room to join baseboards together in my study. I wanted to get some track across the baseboard join. Didn't get as far as I'd hoped (surprise), but got one road done.

 

 

 

 

 

There is an awful lot of trackwork on the next board, so once I've got all the alignments sorted, it'll take quite a while to complete the board.

 

Hopefully a bit more progress soon.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Tim Lewis
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[10800]

Good stuff Tim - always good to get across those joins! Hope the boards are set up a bit less precariously this time

[Tim Lewis]

A little bit more track done. Track on 3 roads now crosses over to the next board. For the latter two I've used SMP (I think) fishplates for temporary alignment: these hold the rail quite tightly. I don't think you can get them anymore - luckily I borrowed a few from a friend. Obviously they'll be removed, and the 'mis-placed' chair sorted, when I take the boards apart.

 

 

I've also laid some of the sleepers on the third board, which is parallel with the second (if you see what I mean). It's the three sidings on the right of this picture.

 

The middle siding goes to an agricultural merchants store and now has sleepers along its full length. The two either side go to the front and back of the cattle dock (where the Copydex bottle is). I've currently stopped sleeper laying at the cattle dock, as I'm not sure what the track base should be. I don't have any decent pictures (either of Coldstream or any other cattle dock), but I have heard that the track bed was often paved, with drainage to get rid of cattle urine etc. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so how widespread it was? Also, are there any decent published pictures anywhere? (I've tried searching, but to no avail).

Edited January 31, 2023 by Tim Lewis
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[Guest oldlugger]

Very nice work Tim

 

Cheers

Simon

[Tim Lewis]

A long time since I made any progress on Coldstream, but done a little bit this past few days.  I finally bit the bullet and reconfigured the crossover between the two running lines.  When I laid the sleepers I hadn't realised that a point rodding run had to cross under the track in the area where the interlaced sleepers are: this resulted in a conflict...

 

The red line is the approximate route that the point rodding needs to take: you can see that there is no way it can cross the track here, as the other adjacent turnout gets in the way.  There was nothing for it but to re-lay it as a 'timbered' rather than 'sleepered' crossover.  (Photographic evidence isn't sufficient to determine what it really was, but the rodding definitely crosses here, so I guess it must have been timbered).

 

I ended up removing quite a few more, in order to get rail length ends in sensible positions.  Here's what I ended up with....

 

There are actually four runs of rodding that cross here, but there is now room for this to happen.  This is what the whole thing looks like:

 

I'm happy enough with this, and it provides a nice contrast to the interlaced turnouts.  It took quite a while to do, but at least now I can get on with a bit more track construction.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Tim Lewis
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[Tim Lewis]

A bit more work done on the track over the last few weeks.  I've now got the track base (Exactoscale foam) laid on all the remaining track sections (apart from the turntable and the road underbridge at the Kelso end), glued down the Templot plan and have laid the sleepers on the two main running lines through the station.  Have laid some more track on the Kelso line, including one half of the main crossover and have started the turnout to the down headshunt.

 

Here's an overall view from the Tweedmouth end, in the now familiar environs of my living room (yes, SWMBO is away again!)

 

 

 

and some lower level views: hoppers on the down headshunt, couple of cattle wagons in the yard.

 

 

 

 

 

And this is what it looks like from the other end:

 

 

 

Slow progress as usual, but it's becoming a bit easier to get a feel for what it will look like.  Will probably concentrate on getting more turnouts done next.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Tim Lewis
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[Rannoch Moor]

Tim,

 

Looking fabulous!  How are you planning to ballast and colour the track?  I have gone through a few hoops with this on my layout but have settled on Woodland Scenics Fine Brown (Fine Cinders for sidings).  I take a pinch between index finger and thumb and gently sprinkle along the line of the track until the required depth is required - slow, but much quicked than overdoing it with a spoon or other pouring device - at least for me!  Haven't settled on my paint scheme though... 

 

Gus

[tom82]

Tim

 

The trackwork so far looks amazing, I love the feel of the design so far.

 

Tom

[Guest bri.s]

 

amazing start cant wait to see it evolve

The track work looks excellent great stuff

Edited April 28, 2013 by bri.s

[Tim Lewis]

On 28/04/2013 at 10:25, Rannoch Moor said:

Tim,

 

Looking fabulous!  How are you planning to ballast and colour the track?  I have gone through a few hoops with this on my layout but have settled on Woodland Scenics Fine Brown (Fine Cinders for sidings).  I take a pinch between index finger and thumb and gently sprinkle along the line of the track until the required depth is required - slow, but much quicked than overdoing it with a spoon or other pouring device - at least for me!  Haven't settled on my paint scheme though... 

 

Gus

Thanks Gus (and Tom and bri).  Ah yes, ballast. A tricky area.  Some time ago (looking back through my records it seems it was actually four years ago - time flies!) I started to do some experiments with ballast.  Most commercial offerings look to me to be either too big, too light, too dark, too uniform etc. for what I need, which is nominally 'ash ballast', but from photographic evidence it doesn't look to be especially fine ash ballast.  I'm no expert by any means, but I suspect it may be clinker or some such thing.  Also, some commercial ballasts are cork or rubber-based (I think) and I've heard that this can be difficult to get to stay in place using my intended 'diluted PVA applied with dropper/syringe' method, as it tends to float around. 

 

Anyway, I've got some really nice brass laboratory sieves (my company were actually throwing them out many years back now), so I did some particle size analysis to allow some sort of comparison (i.e. apart from purely visual) of some commercial ballasts and other alternatives such as chinchilla dust and bird sand.

 

 

 

Please note that I'm not saying that these sizes relate to the prototype ballast, but visually I decided that I wanted to use only particles that would pass through the 425micron sieve.  Off-the-shelf, size wise, the best bet was Carrs Ash ballast, but I'd be looking at throwing half of it away, and it's pretty expensive (and I think probably also prone to 'floating' although I don't know this for sure).  On the other hand, chinchilla dust is pretty cheap, so even though only around 30% of it satisfied the size criteria, it would be more economical.  (The size distribution seems to vary between brands: a friend has 'discovered' some generally much finer stuff in a different pet shop!). Bird sand was another possibility, but in tests, I preferred the way that the chinchilla dust absorbs paint (I use ordinary cheap black poster paint) such that the colour doesn't end up too uniform.  So, my current intention is to use this, but I also want to do some experiments with sieved wood ash as well, so nothing cast in stone (excuse the pun) as yet.

 

 

 

This gives an idea of what it will look like, but bear in mind that this test piece is not tamped down or glued, just loose.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Tim Lewis
Re-instate pictures

[Indomitable026]

Thanks Gus (and Tom and bri).  Ah yes, ballast. A tricky area.  Some time ago (looking back through my records it seems it was actually four years ago - time flies!) I started to do some experiments with ballast.  Most commercial offerings look to me to be either too big, too light, too dark, too uniform etc. for what I need, which is nominally 'ash ballast', but from photographic evidence it doesn't look to be especially fine ash ballast.  I'm no expert by any means, but I suspect it may be clinker or some such thing.  Also, some commercial ballasts are cork or rubber-based (I think) and I've heard that this can be difficult to get to stay in place using my intended 'diluted PVA applied with dropper/syringe' method, as it tends to float around. 

 

Anyway, I've got some really nice brass laboratory sieves (my company were actually throwing them out many years back now), so I did some particle size analysis to allow some sort of comparison (i.e. apart from purely visual) of some commercial ballasts and other alternatives such as chinchilla dust and bird sand.

 

ballast_psd.jpg

 

Please note that I'm not saying that these sizes relate to the prototype ballast, but visually I decided that I wanted to use only particles that would pass through the 425micron sieve.  Off-the-shelf, size wise, the best bet was Carrs Ash ballast, but I'd be looking at throwing half of it away, and it's pretty expensive (and I think probably also prone to 'floating' although I don't know this for sure).  On the other hand, chinchilla dust is pretty cheap, so even though only around 30% of it satisfied the size criteria, it would be more economical.  (The size distribution seems to vary between brands: a friend has 'discovered' some generally much finer stuff in a different pet shop!). Bird sand was another possibility, but in tests, I preferred the way that the chinchilla dust absorbs paint (I use ordinary cheap black poster paint) such that the colour doesn't end up too uniform.  So, my current intention is to use this, but I also want to do some experiments with sieved wood ash as well, so nothing cast in stone (excuse the pun) as yet.

 

 ballast_test.jpg

 

This gives an idea of what it will look like, but bear in mind that this test piece is not tamped down or glued, just loose.

I must admit I find most ballast too course.

 

I put mine through the coffee grinder to reduce its size. What actually happens is you end up with all different smaller sizes, which I like because it doesn't look too regular. The longer you leave it in the smaller it gets.

[Portchullin Tatty]

Clearly I am not checking up on you often enough Tim, if I am seeing postings in April to be new!!

 

It is good to see the layout beginning to gel; I particularly like that gentle sweeping curve.  Curves do make a big difference although they can make a layout difficult to transport and store - guess how I know that!

 

I am a little inclined to think that your ballast is still a little thick for ash?  It is almost just a texture you are after?

 

Any more updates to fill us in on?

[Tim Lewis]

Clearly I am not checking up on you often enough Tim, if I am seeing postings in April to be new!!

 

It is good to see the layout beginning to gel; I particularly like that gentle sweeping curve.  Curves do make a big difference although they can make a layout difficult to transport and store - guess how I know that!

 

I am a little inclined to think that your ballast is still a little thick for ash?  It is almost just a texture you are after?

 

Any more updates to fill us in on?

Thanks Mark: yes, the curve does look nice doesn't it.  Partly as a result of this, Coldstream has weirdly shaped baseboards, and will probably be a pig to transport, but I made the decision (rightly or wrongly) to prioritise getting the track layout "right" over portability considerations.

 

You may be right about the ballast, although some photos of Coldstream suggest it was perhaps more of a small clinker ballast than fine ash, but a bit difficult to tell.

 

As I noted above, I was intending to do some experiments with wood ash before committing to one method or another, but since then I've seen Blackgill, which has probably the most convincing ash ballast I've seen.  Apparently it's crushed and sieved coal ash with a bit of coke ash for good measure, so I feel some more experiments coming on!  I have seen (possibly on RMWeb - can't remember) people using DAS or similar to fill in between sleepers to represent ash ballast, but it doesn't do it for me.

 

Sadly, no more updates to report at the moment.  A combination of work, an overseas trip and having things done to the house have meant even less progress than normal for the past few months, either on the layout or on the workbench (although I did fit a chip in my J21).  Hoping I might get a bit done over Xmas, but we'll see....

[Tim Lewis]

Sadly no progress on Coldstream to report, I just didn't want to have a full year between posts!

 

What little modelling time I've had this year has been spent on stock, some of which is very nearly complete!

 

The only news on Coldstream is that we've (almost certainly) decided not to move house, so instead we're going to build an extension and have a cabin at the bottom of the garden for the railway.  Hopefully there'll be some progress on this in 2015.  Watch this space!

[DougN]

Tim it is obvious that you have been busy.... With life getting in the way of modelling. I go in fits and starts with modelling but nothing getting really finished for years... Just as long as I remember where all the bits are!

[Tim Lewis]

Unfortunately, this is another one of those "nothing-to-report-but-didn't-want-to-have-a-year-between-posts" posts!

 

Nothing has happened on Coldstream construction over the past year.  However, I'm hopeful that there will soon be some real progress on the railway room front - watch this space in 2016!  (I know I said that last year, but it really might happen fairly soon, but as usual, don't hold your breath!)

[DougN]

Well Tim... you could say the same thing has happened with me.... along no doubt with a number of other readers. I have not finished anything this year I think. A high level J72 chassis is still not finished... or the Finney Group standard tender for a V2. any how it is another year next year... 

[davefrk]

Hi Tim, had been following your thread and wondered where it had got to. I sympathise with the lack of progress, me too! 

I do like to see decent and realistic curves on a model it makes it look like a real railway, I once made a 6ft long template for a 27 foot radius and that has been used on various exhibition layouts over the years and they were always commented on for the realistic curve. One was 'Hewisbridge' which is set on the Border Counties lines.

On my railway, Wharfeside, the main lines are stone ballast but the lyes and yard are ash ballast so I'm watching for what others are doing, some are using sieved 'play sand' which is pre-washed from, IIRC Early Learning Centre, this is tamped down and in my experiments very dilute PVA with poster paint added produced a good and variable colour, see 'Burntisland' layout. Others have been experimenting with watered down Copydex (carpet/craft glue) as this is more resiliant than the rock hard PVA. I've only tried some samples so far but I've been involved with layouts for over 40 years so there are some tried and tested methods to fall back on. 

Hope you can get the railway room sorted out in 2016.

 

All the best,

Dave Franks

[Tim Lewis]

A year ago tomorrow since the previous post, so it must be time for another "nothing to report" post!    However, there is something to report, in that I have at least ordered a shed.  I had been hoping that it would be installed by Christmas, but that looks highly unlikely now.  Still, hopefully fairly early in 2017.  It would be nice to think that more rapid progress will then be made on the layout, but we'll see!

[Mad McCann]

I wish you were nearer these parts, Tim, I'd be front of the queue to assist!

 

All the best.

 

Dave.