Lancaster Green Ayre - The Barn Owls have returned.

[jamie92208]

Another day and sort of progress.  I have decided to do thecGibson 4F next that will carry my old service number, 3877 of Toton. As i've posted previously this is a part built kit that has the wrong tender. I've now got the correct tender kit so this morning I brought the loco box over from the shed to sort put exactly what I've got. I sorted it into two piles, what to keep and what to put on the spares pile. Obviously the tender, a Fowler 3500 gallon one, and it's associsted etches went in the spares pile. My plan was to reuse the wheels but then discovered that both the tender and loco wheels appear to be an older Slaters design without built in quartering, just a push fit on the axle and a loose tyre or two to boot.  I certainly won't use the driving wheels but will see what I can do with the tender ones. Various other parts will gave to be built from scratch. I've also got to make a smokebox wrapper. Fortunately  with few rivets as a very good photo shos that batch with flush rivets when built.  I did manage to do some tidying of my modelling desk and found all sorts of stuff but not the spare 5' 3" driving wheels that I know I've got.  Anyway onwards and upwards,  the boilers firebox footplare and cab are very well built.

 

More fun tomorrow.

 

Jamie.

 

[jamie92208]

Another day and some more progress.  In the morning I sorted through various boxes and managed to find 3 sets of 5' 3" driving wheels and 3 sets of tender wheels.   One 0-4-4 is now and 0-2-4 if it ever gets finished.  I then made a start on the loco.  First thing was to assemble the coupling rods which were from Premier. I wasn't sure how to assemble them but a quick call to Billy and I got helpful advice and had a good chat. I then set up my Master Chassis Jig which is marvellous. Next I set to work to glue the axleboxes into the frames that were already assembled.  These were  then araldited into the frames.  I then discovered that one set of hornguides needed a bit of fettling so glued the first two axles then after a muggertea when back to fettle the frames and glue the last axle in.

 

Sorry about the quality of the photo. But you should be able to see the coupling rod fixed on the end of the stub axles.  This photo shows it from above.

 

That was then eft to cure overnight.  After tea I couldn't resist opening up the Ragstone tender kit.   The first few bits went together very easily.

Hopefully there will be more progress tomorrow.

 

Jamie

Edited July 30, 2022 by jamie92208

[jamie92208]

Evening all again.   More shed time this afternoon and evening. First though I wasn't happy with last night's photos so here's a better one of the chassis jig in use.

 

 

Once I'dtaken the photo I took the frames off the jig and trial fitted the driving wheels.  No problems there but when I tried to select a motor to fit things got awkward.  I'd decided to use a spare Slaters motor/gearbox and it was too wide to fit between the bearings.  However a little work with a file sorted that.   Then I tried it with the motor horizontal above the frames.  However I would have had to do some major surgery to the bottom of the firebox and boiler barrel.   Initially the motor wouldn't fit vertically but I moved a frame spacer and lo and behold the motor went nicely inside the firebox.   I couldn't resit getting a photo.

That showed up a bit of droop so I devised a little prop for the motor attached to the frame spacer I'd just moved.

Voila.   It worked. I even put it on the track and with a couple of test leads clamped onto the motor leads a 2-2-2 set off down the tracks.   Lovely to see it moving.   Tomorrow will probably be several steps back as I try fitting the rods and checking for binding.

After tea I did some more work on the tender and got the bearings sliding sweetly in the hornguides and a few more little bits added.   All I all a good day.

 

Jamie

Edited July 30, 2022 by jamie92208

[jamie92208]

Evening all.  There has been more progress but nothing spectacular.  The rods are on the 4F but there is a bind somewhere.  I am gradually getting it sorted with the aid  of a cutting broach. The loco has actually run as an 0-6-0 but I want to get rid of the bind.    Some more work has been done on the tender but I now await some advice about whether or not a water scoop would have been fittec.

 

Jamie

Edited April 11, 2020 by jamie92208

[jamie92208]

I had a good afternoon n the shed today..  I started by doing some more work on the 4F chassis.  Using a cutting broach and a square file to gently enlarge the crankpin holes in the coupling rods, then reassemble and test. Eventually it got to where I wanted to be and ran smoothly.  I tried it on the tracks using test leads.

 

My attempts to take some video of it moving came to nought but it did move nicely.  

Then it was on to the tender.  This is a lovey kit but quite complicated.   I need to read the instructions very carefully and test fit each part before soldering iron is applied.  It goes together very well.   I got the well tank and inner frames done and the fitted the wheels and springing system that also holds the wheels in.   There are two spring wires that connect to tables on the well tank frames and also to tabs soldered to the back of the wheel bearings.  Then it was time to fir the wheels.   This was the end result.

 

After that I spent 20 minutes working out how the front dragbox is assembled but didn't have time to solder it up, that will have to wait till tomorrow.

 

Jamie

 

PS thanks to Dave Hunt I now know that the tender was not fitted with a water scoop which makes things easier. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by jamie92208

[lezz01]

Very nice Jamie. Looks like it all sits well on the track. 

Regards Lez.

[jamie92208]

Another couple of hours work done in between other duties. I concentrated on the tender.  Though it is complicated it's a joy to work on. So far all thevparts fit beautifully,  even if it did take me 3 attempts  to get 1 plate on in the correct orientation.  The instructions even tell you what needs to be done to make the kit in 32mm  fine scale rather than Scaleseven. Today I've got the front and rear drag boxes and various other frame parts assembled.  Unlikevany other tenders I've built the tank is constructed separately  from thd frames just like the real thing. It's almist all slot and tab construction.  Hopefully anotherbpicture tomorrow.

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

Good evening from the start of week 5 of lockdown.   More work has been done today.  First of all though I thought that I'd put up a photo of the loco I'm trying to build.

I know the numbers wrong but only by one digit. I found this in Summerson's Volume 4 and it shows the loco in the condition I want to model it.  I've got a copy on my workbench for reference.

Today I spent most of the afternoon in the shed, though my sins have now been pointed out to me.  I worked my way steadily on with the tender kit and managed to complete on full page of instructions.  I did discover that one part had been put in the wrong place but managed to sort that.  By the time I'd had enough the inner well tank and the outside frames were almost complete.  Again all the parts fit first time which is certainly not true of certain other kits.

 

 

These two views show where I've got to. Tomorrow I start the awkward stuff like brake gear and details.   Having read on in the instructions I realised that I needed to get the tender tank mounted so that I can make sure that the footplate heights on the loco and tender match.   

Also a few other pictures especially for Compound 2632 to show him that it is possible to assemble a D & S breakdown crane.

First a picture of the breakdown train minus the 6 wheel tool van that is with the snowploughs at the moment.

Then a close up of the crane.

It still needs detail painting and transfers.

An overall view of the crane with match truck.  The match truck itself was built using a Slaters 3 plank wagon with the superstructure scratchbuilt b Ray Clasper.  It still needs painting and detailing.

 

I hope that that's given you a little inspiration Stephen.   And just for me another piece of inspiration. On the shelves of unbuilt and part built kits are two light blue boxes with my Finney7 Duchess.  One day it will look like this.

What a magnificent sight and named after the city of my birth. OK I know it's out of period but rule 1 applies. However for now I must discipline myself and keep building other things for the layout.  Perhaps the lockdown has got a positive side.

 

Jamie

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by jamie92208

[Compound2632]

Thanks for the photos of the crane! I must get mine started but I'm putting the cart before the horse, so to speak, by building a match wagon first. 

[jamie92208]

Just now, Compound2632 said:

Thanks for the photos of the crane! I must get mine started but I'm putting the cart before the horse, so to speak, by building a match wagon first. 

If you want some pictures of that one for reference send me a PM.

 

Jamie

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, jamie92208 said:

If you want some pictures of that one for reference send me a PM.

 

Jamie

 

Thanks but at the moment I'm the custodian of @Dave Hunt's original drawings for his Midland Record articles.

[Crimson Rambler]

HMRS Journal Oct/Dec 2007 Vol 19 issue No. 8 contains a copy of an official Midland drawing of the match waggon for a 15-ton steam crane based at Sheffield together with an article by George Brodie describing how he built it based on a Slaters 19ft underframe kit. 

 

 

Crimson Rambler

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, Crimson Rambler said:

HMRS Journal Oct/Dec 2007 Vol 19 issue No. 8 contains a copy of an official Midland drawing of the match waggon for a 15-ton steam crane based at Sheffield together with an article by George Brodie describing how he built it based on a Slaters 19ft underframe kit. 

 

 

I'm working from the Midland Railway Study Centre's copy of drawing 847. This drawing was originally prepared for one wagon built to Lot 268 for a 10 ton crane but has amendments for the four wagons of Lot 321 for the first batch of Cowans Sheldon 15 ton cranes. However, it only shows the jib rest for the 10 ton crane, with the note "For Jib Rest for 15 Ton Steam Cranes Lots 321, 463 see Photo Tracing from Loco Dept." - so for the jib rest, I'm relying on Dave Hunt's drawings which appeared in his Midland Record articles - in Nos. 2 and 6, so antedating the George Brodie article. If his drawing is different to any of those, I'd love to see it.

[jamie92208]

Mine was built several years ago and if I remember correctly that also used a Slaters underframe kit rather than an actual wagon.  I'm also rather concerned about getting the contents of the wagon to look right.  The two brake vans in the train were also scratchbuilt  by Ray Clasper.  He also built a 6 wheel tool van based on pictures of the one at Hellifield.  It's a long time since I did the background work for the transfer sheet but my plan, in conjunction with Mike Fox, was to cater for most of the 2 designsvof 15 ton cranes.  We got a trial sheet produced but other things intervened and I never got the instruction sheet for them done. I think I may have done a draft but may not still have access to the computer it was on.  Mike and Jenny retired and the project mouldered.  It was many years later that I discovered that the transfers had actually  been produced.  I even had to pay full price for my sheet.  

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

2 days with shed time allowed and much progress has been made. Over the last two days I've finished the tender running gear.

 

Everything has gone together well, even the brake gear.   What a joy this kit has been to build.  I got the chassis finished then put the tank base on it before putting it on a piece of track next to the loco.  This was the result.

 

A mismatch of 2mm in height. I suspected that this might be the case.  My 990 from the same kit manufacturer had three major dimensions out by 5mm, including the heights of the tender and loco footplates.  Anyway a bit of headscratching ensued as to how to level it up.  I did discover that the motor tailshaft was touching the top of the firebox and that brought the difference down to 1mm.   I checked the loco frames and it wasn't going to be easy to file those down in places and could well create clearance problems.  I then thought of packing the tender tank off it's frames.   In reality it had 1/8" of leather packing.  Anyway I tries it with 1mm of plasticard scrap and with a couple of cocktail stick holding things square this was the result.

I feel that I can live with that and the packing doesn't show.   I know the loco footplate isn't level but there is some strange packing piece under the front of it.   As you can see I also started assembling the tender tank.   Forming the flares is always tricky for me but I borrowed the kitchen blowlamp and annealed the flares.  They then rolled easily round a drill bit and soldered together like a dream.   I did form the tank interior but didn't solder it as tea was ready and the owner of the blowlamp wouldn't have wanted me to be late.   I'll probably get the tender ready for painting and then return to the loco.   The remaining work on that certainly won't be as easy. The first major jobs are to fabricate splasher topes and a smokebox wrapper.

 

Jamie

Edited July 31, 2022 by jamie92208

[lezz01]

The height looks bang on from here Jamie.

Regards Lez.

[jamie92208]

Thanks Lezz, with 1mm of brass sheet and a couple of cocktail sticks I think it looks OK.  I'll probably put a thin layer of 1mm plasticard all round so that light doesn't  show through.

 

I strongly suspect that the loco won't fall together like the tender and no doubt I will need some sort of Scottish Medecine after work sessions.  It would be nice to try and have it finished and ready for painting by the time this lockdown finishes.  A big decision now is whether to fit working inside valve gear. I've ended up with a couple of spare sets of it in the spares box and there us a big space between the frames.

 

Jamie

[Dave Hunt]

6 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

A big decision now is whether to fit working inside valve gear. I've ended up with a couple of spare sets of it in the spares box and there us a big space between the frames.

 

A 4F without something between the frames does look daft as there is so much clear space under the boiler. Even if you just settle on non-working motion it will be a lot better than nothing.

 

But for someone of your abilities Jamie, working motion is surely the way to go.

 

You know it makes sense!

 

Go for it!

 

Dave

[jamie92208]

9 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

A 4F without something between the frames does look daft as there is so much clear space under the boiler. Even if you just settle on non-working motion it will be a lot better than nothing.

 

But for someone of your abilities Jamie, working motion is surely the way to go.

 

You know it makes sense!

 

Go for it!

 

Dave

Get thee behind me Satan to quote someone rather better than me. If I didn't know you better I might think that a certain Pachyderm had put you up to that suggestion.

 

Jamie

Edited April 18, 2020 by jamie92208

[Andy Hayter]

15 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Thanks Lezz, with 1mm of brass sheet and a couple of cocktail sticks I think it looks OK.  I'll probably put a thin layer of 1mm plasticard all round so that light doesn't  show through.

 

I strongly suspect that the loco won't fall together like the tender and no doubt I will need some sort of Scottish Medecine after work sessions.  It would be nice to try and have it finished and ready for painting by the time this lockdown finishes.  A big decision now is whether to fit working inside valve gear. I've ended up with a couple of spare sets of it in the spares box and there us a big space between the frames.

 

Jamie

 

Sadly I think you will have a great deal of time.  May 11th is just the next review date and I am not holding my breath that there will be a grand release.  Maybe a slight reduction in the constraints; more likely a plan for the gradual release.  

[lezz01]

Sorry Jamie. I have to agree with Dave on this. It's a 4F it needs inside motion and a chap of your skills will make it work. I know you can get a full set from someone here but it's not cheap at all north £150 last time I looked. I can't remember who it is I only look for the sake of looking as they only do 7mm.

Regards Lez. 

[jamie92208]

46 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

Sorry Jamie. I have to agree with Dave on this. It's a 4F it needs inside motion and a chap of your skills will make it work. I know you can get a full set from someone here but it's not cheap at all north £150 last time I looked. I can't remember who it is I only look for the sake of looking as they only do 7mm.

Regards Lez. 

Ta Lez.  As it happens I've got either 2 or 3 sets in a box that came my way afterva good friend died so the stuff is here.  I'll have a look at it tomorrow.

 

Jamie

[Regularity]

Except in full gear, the amount of movement in the valve gear will be quite small And may not be noticeable, so you could go half way with working cranks and connecting rods, but with static valve gear. 

[jamie92208]

I was told that I needed to be out of the house so that some cleaning could take place this afternoon, apparently  I'm not well enough trained to be entrusted with such a task.  With that instruction off I went to the shed for nearly 3 hours. The tender tank is now was nearly finished and is looking good. I did decide to repkace the etched lamp irons with cast ones from Laurie Griffin.  That took half an hour and when putting the tool box on it does help to put it the rightvway up. That tok another half hour.  Anyway progress has definitely  been made.  I also found three sets of inside valve gear. I also found a set of detail parts for 4F's.  A bit of googling then found a drawing in Midland Record No2.  I now have some serious designing to do to see if I can fit everything in without destroying  the chassis. Two of the main spacers seem to be in the wrong place.  

 

 

Jamie

[lezz01]

11 hours ago, Regularity said:

Except in full gear, the amount of movement in the valve gear will be quite small And may not be noticeable, so you could go half way with working cranks and connecting rods, but with static valve gear. 

Yeh you can do that. BUT the valve gear on a 4F has a rocker on each of the radius arm that changes a push into a pull and takes the movement from below the slide bars to the valve spindles that are above the slidebars, they are fitted to the rear of the motion bracket and are very prominent on a 4F.

Regards Lez.