Lancaster Green Ayre - The Barn Owls have returned.

[jamie92208]

A bit of modelling mojo has returned and I have managed to get some letterring onto the two NER vans that came on loan from Bill Bishop.

Here they are and thanks very much Bill.  In the process I have also sorted my stocks of Powsides transfers and found that I have quite a few. 2  Denaby ones for 8 plank wagons.   These will go on some Skytrex wagons that I got cheaply a few years ago.  I have also found 4 sets of City of Lancaster gas works ones. I need to identify some suitable 7 plank wagons. Plenty to do.

 

Jamie

 

PS, thanks again Bill.

Edited July 30, 2022 by jamie92208

[Mike Storey]

3 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

A bit of modelling mojo has returned and I have managed to get some leterring onto the two NER vans that came on loan from Bill Bishop.

Here they are and thanks very much Bill.  In the process I have also sorted my stocks of Powsides transfers and found that I have quite a few. 2  Denaby ones for 8 plank wagons.   These will go on some Skytrex wagons that I got cheaply a few years ago.  I have also found 4 sets of City of Lancaster gas works ones. I need to identify some suitable 7 plank wagons. Plenty to do.

 

Jamie

 

PS, thanks again Bill.

 

How do you find these transfers after several years in storage? I had a few that I had acquired some four or six years ago, but only one set had any flexibility left to allow some decent work, when I tried to use them during the winter.

 

How have you stored them?

 

[jamie92208]

Most of them are OK but sone of the older ones break up badly.  These are rub on like letraset. Apparently  if they are stored upright without pressure they should be OK.  Some older Methfix transfers don't work very well. 

 

Jamie

[Dave Hunt]

I recently used some very old (at least twenty years) Letraset for labelling my control panels and much to my surprise it worked well. A few letters left the odd little bit on the sheet but after carefully replacing it and going over the broken off bits again all was well. The sheets have been stored in a box file in a cupboard all that time.

 

I also used some Slaters Methfix MR loco numbers of similar vintage a couple of months ago to replace some that had got worn with handling and had no problem; they had been stored in plastic bags in the same box file.

 

Dave

[MarcD]

My trick with rub down transfers is to hold them in place with 3M scotch magic tape. tacky enough to hold things down, clear enough to see through but doesn't put paint off or leave any sticky behind. jut don't put it over the transfer after it has been applied as it will pull it off.

Marc 

[jamie92208]

Another few days and despite the weather being inclement I've got on with some wagons.   Having found the Powsides transfers I ID's some potential recipients for them.   Some time ago I got a batch of 4 Skytrex 8 plank PO's lettered for Modern Transport of Leeds.   I think that this makes them too late for the layout and they need weight etc so two of them have been repainted to become Denaby.

 

Here are three of them showing the difference. As I've got 2 litres of red oxide primer for ironwork on the shutters there was no shortage of paint.   I then re read the Powsides label and discovered that they stated 'black ironwork'.  A bit fiddly but after to coating two large shutters in what I'm told is a near match for Caley Blue, it was quite therapeutic to do some small work.   These are now awaiting their transfers which are shaded so the registration has to be correct.  When they've been weighted they should look OK.

 

Another 8 plank PO, this time from a Slaters kit was discovered with a set of Powsides for Maltby in the box.  This was also given the red oxide treatment and again I found the dreaded, 'black ironwork' phrase.   Only when I had done one side and started on the first end did I spot my deliberate mistake during assembly.

I also found a complete 7 plank PO waiting for lettering so it's become one of the ones for the City of Lancaster gasworks.

 

This will also need a load.   Can any reader tell me what size of coal would be supplied to a gasworks.  I don't remember the coke that we collected from our local gasworks in Settle as being very large.   Any info would be appreciated.

 

A 'Basic' wagon kit for another 7 planker has surfaced and is being worked on.   This will also be a City of Lancaster one.   I've got enough of them to make up a little trip freight that can run loaded in the down direction.   The gasworks was across the river between Lancaster and Morecambe so the trip freight can be one of the down trains.

 

Jamie

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by jamie92208

[Mike Storey]

Lovely work Jamie, even though I understand nothing of the history, but yellow axle boxes??

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Only when I had done one side and started on the first end did I spot my deliberate mistake during assembly.

 

Ooops! I hope that's reversible...

 

I don't know about the size of gas coal but earlier today I was reading through an article on the Warwickshire Railways site by Keith Turton, about the City of Birmingham Gas Department. This confirms that gas coal was coming from the Derby/Notts/South Yorks coalfield, including Denaby.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Compound2632

[jamie92208]

Good evening all from a slightly damp (as usual) Charente Maritime.   I haven't abandoned modelling but have been rather busy with some 12" to the foot modelling.  The main winter task has been painting the shutters, 2 or 3 at the time. Here are the latest batch of three in their new colour  (Caley Blue I'm told) with the layout in the background.

The good news is that When these three are finished in a couple of days there will only be 2 left to do out eighteen.

 

Anyway I have been working away on the wagons.  The one with the sides the wrong way round has been corrected with the aid of much MEK then some Squadron Putty as filler.  A touch up of paint covered a multitude of sins.   he Basic kit has been made up and went together surprisingly well.  It even had planking and strapping detail on the interior. All have now been lettered and are here.

 

The Maltby one is the one that needed the sides correcting. The Basic one is the left hand Gas for Economy.  The transfers are all Powsides and went on quite well though a few bits stuck to the backing paper.  I now need to sort the interiors out, get them weighted and then put cola loads in them.   The Maltby will have it's axle boxes and brakes fitted when I can find them.

 

Just as a matter of interest what colour is best to use to paint the interior of a wagon.

 

Hopefully some loco work will re start soon.

 

Jamie

Edited July 30, 2022 by jamie92208

[Regularity]

52 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

I now need to... ...put cola loads in them.

Will you be using the real thing, or an imitation?

[jamie92208]

On 16/03/2020 at 20:53, Regularity said:

Will you be using the real thing, or an imitation?

Damn that fat finger syndrome that strikes again. Good for a laugh though we are need of one tonight at the start of a 15 day lockdown. The kit mountain will be surveyed tomorrow.

 

Jamie

Edited March 29, 2020 by jamie92208

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Just as a matter of interest what colour is best to use to paint the interior of a wagon.

 

 

The colour of well-worn deal boards stained by close contact with coal.

[jamie92208]

29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The colour of well-worn deal boards stained by close contact with coal.

 So some sort of grey with weathering perhaps.  Any suggextions for the base colour.

 

Jamie

[Mike Storey]

44 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Damn that fat finger syndrome that strikes again. Good for a laugh though we are need of one tonightvat the start of a 15 day lockdown. The kit mountain will be surveyed tomorrow.

 

Jamie

 

I think it will be rather more than 15 days Jamie, even tho he said that. I can't see the virus peaking that quickly. 

 

And even if we manage to print off one of these damned forms to travel, no model shops are open! Dark days ahead.....

[lezz01]

Mid grey with silver grey highlights for the top plank and darkening down to weathered black on the floor. By weathered black I mean 50/50 dark earth/matt black. Humbrol 29/33. 

Regards Lez.

[jamie92208]

Thanks very much for that Lezz.  Weathering is an unknown art to me so maybe the periodvof enforced purdah will give me chance to give itself a try.  I think I'ive got those paints in stock.

 

Jamie

 

 

[jamie92208]

Evening all from the Charente.  A lovely day here and we made our first trip out 

, with the necessary forms, to go to the hospital.  However much research has been ongoing.   I've been having a look through my stock of loco kits.   I have two nearly finished , a 2-4-0 and a 2F.  There are also some part built ones from various sources, a 2F that the late and much missed Tony Bond started, a Gibson 2P and a Gibson 4F.   The 4F is going to carry my old Police number, 3877, and be shedded at Toton.  I've been doing a bit of research as I know that the tender is incorrect as it's a Fowler one.   Summerson V4 and Jenkinson and Essery Vols 1 and 4 have given me the info that it had a 3500 gallon Johnson tender when built with flush rivets so it's smooth sided. I did toy with the idea of cutting down the Fowler one but the wheelbase and other dimensions are wrong.   

 

This afternoon a bit of googling found a kit produced by Ragstone models (Andy Beaton) and though it's a bit pricey it will do the job.   So that's another one that I can crack on with.

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

A bit more research, which I hope that someone can help with.  On the front of the layout is the former school that became a brewery store.  They despatched beer by rail.  Their loading was done on the coal wagon road nearest to the store from their yard.  I'm about to put up the fencing round the yard once I get a delivery from Poppy's woodtech of the gate pack that they do.  I presume that loaded barrels went out in open wagons, probably 5 plankers as that is what was used on the Burton to St Pancras undercroft trains.  Can anyone help by answering the following questions.  

 

A) what size of barrel was most common and what dimensions were they.

B) Were they carried horizontally or vertically in the wagons.

C) How would they be loaded from ground level as I'm thinking of a small diorama.  I'd presume that they would be rolled along a couple of stout planks either from ground level or from a dray backed up to the wagon.

 

I'll try and get a photo later.

 

Any help will be very much appreciated.

 

Jamie

Edited March 21, 2020 by jamie92208

[lezz01]

Hi Jamie. The first issue of Midland record has details on St Pancras station and how the undercroft is built to accommodate a certain number of barrels in each vault. It also has photos of loaded wagons on the hoist road and indeed the hoist itself. It's in the preview issue if you have a copy and if not give me a shout and we'll sort something out. 

Regards Lez.  

[Ian Smeeton]

18, 36 and 54 Gallon barrels in your time period. (Kildekin, Barrel and Hogshead or Pipe) Firkins are relatively few in number.

 

See here: https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW005635

 

"Hogshead or pipe About 3' - 3'6" high by about 28" diameter

Barrel about 2'6" by about 22"-24" dia

 

 

 

Looking at this shot of Marstons Brewery, I would say 'end to the sky', but would be sheeted for transport.

 

https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW005782

 

I would think that a dray would be used, as a barrel, 36 gall would weigh in excess of 400lbs full, and a hogshead over 600lbs.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[jamie92208]

Thanks very much to both of you. Plenty of food for thought there. Lezz, I've got both those issues of Midland Record so will have a look tonight.  I like the idea of a little doirama of a wagon being loaded with barrels.  Some different sized ones will look good as well.   Thanks again for the info.  Now need to source some barrels and a dray.  Duncan models perhaps.

 

Jamie

[bbishop]

Andy is hardly known for his fidelity to 1/43.  Have a look at SandD Models range.

 

Bill

[Shez]

Glad to see progress continuing out there. Has there been any further progress with the layout? Good to see your Denaby wagons. My grandfather worked at Denaby Main starting underground as a pony boy aged 13. At Kettering show three wagons were lined up on the Slaters stand. Denaby, where my Grandad worked,  Manvers Main where his two sons worked, and Parkgate Iron Co where my Dad worked!  They were even in chronological order.

[jamie92208]

On 21/03/2020 at 21:36, Shez said:

Glad to see progress continuing out there. Has there been any further progress with the layout? Good to see your Denaby wagons. My grandfather worked at Denaby Main starting underground as a pony boy aged 13. At Kettering show three wagons were lined up on the Slaters stand. Denaby, where my Grandad worked,  Manvers Main where his two sons worked, and Parkgate Iron Co where my Dad worked!  They were even in chronological order.

Thanks for that Mark, not much layout progress due to other events but I am about to start some layout work as well as wanting  to get the 2F finally finished and the 2-4-0 lined.  Some bow pens are in the post.  However I am going to make a start on the brewery store area and then try and get a couple of the buildings in the coal yard done. To those who don't know the layout this is the area that I'm talking about.  Due to width limitations it has been squeezed a bit but as it's front and centre I want to make it look good.

 

The brewery store, the former national school for Boys was built by John Patrick, who also built the station buildings and goods shed.  The yard is seen and was apparently a store for empty barrels.

 

This gives a better view of the area.  The fencing panels that I have in stock are laid out roughly where I'll plant them. The skewed one is where I'm going to put the gate through to the coal yard and the G & S W wagon is roughly where I want to have a Midland 5 plank wagon being loaded.  The dray can be positioned backing onto it with barrels being rolled onto the wagon.   A horse with someone holding it and the wagon half full of barrels should complete it.  I will need some barrels in the yard and might have  a go at resin casting some. Possibly in two different sizes. Standing them upright in the wagon makes a lot of sense.   Hopefully with a few figures it will start to bring the coal yard area to life.  

 

Mark, thanks for the remarks about the wagons.   I thought that I remembered you talking about Denaby.  I think I've got a Manvers one somewhere.

 

There are about 6 other buildings in the yard and I got some info about some of them at Lancaster so I'm probably going to have a go at the mess hut which can just be seen behind the weigh office in the second photo.  At the moment they are mainly mounting board mock ups.

 

Jamie

Edited July 30, 2022 by jamie92208

[Dragonboy]

13 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Thanks very much to both of you. Plenty of food for thought there. Lezz, I've got both those issues of Midland Record so will have a look tonight.  I like the idea of a little doirama of a wagon being loaded with barrels.  Some different sized ones will look good as well.   Thanks again for the info.  Now need to source some barrels and a dray.  Duncan models perhaps.

 

Jamie

Whilst I model in N I’ve found Peedie models to be by far the best available with 2 sizes on offer. Service is first class and a painted option is available which doesn’t break the bank. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Dragonboy
Tryppo