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john dew

GRANBY JUNCTION: 00 GWR/LMS 1947-1948

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Well done John - not only for finding it and sorting it, but also explaining it all in an understandable way!

 

Happy Canada Day for tomorrow.

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Thanks Tinker.

 

Sadly I think it will be wet tomorrow:(.......more modelling time though!

 

Hope the building is going well.

 

Best wishes

 

John

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Sounds like a bit of an ordeal John. I had a short recently (caused by heat expansion as it turned out) and even on my tiny layouts it can be confounding to work out. I can well imagine the frustration of having to identify the problem on your size of layout. Good thing your methodological and patient approach worked out.

 

The 14xx project sounds interesting. Will you be replacing the actual wheels or the whole chassis?

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16 hours ago, john dew said:

I know from past experience that these devices (although very useful) are not as robust as Lenz components. I normally always have the power switched off when working with them.  

That wouldn't always help John, as I discovered a few years ago. They have internal capacitors that that stay charged even when power is off. I accidentally shorted one to another component which killed that whole segment of the decoder module. I gather that the more recent version has a proper power-down arrangement that leaves no residual charge.

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12 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Sounds like a bit of an ordeal John. I had a short recently (caused by heat expansion as it turned out) and even on my tiny layouts it can be confounding to work out. I can well imagine the frustration of having to identify the problem on your size of layout. Good thing your methodological and patient approach worked out.

 

The 14xx project sounds interesting. Will you be replacing the actual wheels or the whole chassis?

 

Hi Mikkel

 

It was not fun at all. Apart from the uncertainty that I would find a solution there also was the realisation of how much time would be wasted putting everything together again. I was extremely lucky that the fault was on Circuit 3 which runs under the front edge of the baseboard. All that cutting and testing was, at least, accomplished from the comfort of an armchair. It would have been rather different if it had been on  Circuit 4  which runs under the centre of the baseboard.......not sure with my eyesight/back if I would have managed.

 

I am afraid that only the tyred wheels will be replaced on the 14xx. I tried building a chassis for one for almost 30 years ago .........not a happy experience. Model railways are great at exposing ones limitations without causing too much harm!

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

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8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That wouldn't always help John, as I discovered a few years ago. They have internal capacitors that that stay charged even when power is off. I accidentally shorted one to another component which killed that whole segment of the decoder module. I gather that the more recent version has a proper power-down arrangement that leaves no residual charge.

 

Correct .....the newer ones have a blue indicator light that remains on for quite a while after the power is switched off. The other fault with the initial launch was they had no memory of the polarity setting. After a power outage (planned or not) they reverted to the default polarity setting........regardless of the actual blade setting!  There were some work arounds like making sure that at least the default polarity matched the normal position but it was still a pain.

 

I only use them where I have been forced to use surface mounted points for a repair or addition and I cant retrofit a tortoise. I have spare decoder capacity for stall motors so hopefully I can replace the binned ADSFX with a Gaugemaster GM500D unit (by a very fortunate chance 3 are already on their way here!)

 

I was very conscious of your immaculate wiring when I was posting (particularly when inserting the photos )  I hope you were not too appalled!:D

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

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Evening a John,

 

Been there, done that. Even so it’s still a very frustrating process in identifying these sort of faults.

 

Excellent that having gone through all of it, you were able to write it up in such a lucid manner.

 

These frustrations are sent to try us!

 

Have a good Canada day.

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1_intro_14xx.jpg.c4b2288c843b847ca1b361248e52f9df.jpg

 


14xx 0-4-2T the quintessential GWR branchline loco.....


Unfortunately, until recently, the only RTR loco available was the ex Airfix Hornby/Dapol version

I have always found them to be unreliable runners and I hate the traction tyres. I did eventually get two running ok but only as a result of permanently coupling them to Autocoaches, to which I had added pickups and wired in  enormous Stay Alives.

When the DJM/Hattons locos were released, the Dapol locos disappeared, with a sigh of relief, into the graveyard drawer to join other failures. One of which was my first and only attempt to build a loco chassis. This doomed effort proved conclusively how wise I was not to attempt a career in Engineering......far better to focus on Women's fashion........I have no problem determining the best shade of Green for a loco!    

I was probably a bit premature in celebrating the DJM release but with the aid of Zimo decoders and SA they now do regular automated runs on Granby. 

Ever since, the Dapol locos have sat in the graveyard drawer, gathering dust; waiting for me to pluck up courage to replace the traction tired driving wheel set.

2__5_x_14xx.jpg.b8445e38fdf141337b6f7713df30b3f8.jpg


I guess there was some margin of error in that I had four available sets to work with!


The actual wheel replacement was actually much easier than I had imagined

4.5_wheels.jpg.176cf17429476397c411f86138af86f3.jpg

The connecting rod retaining pin is just a push fit easily prised clear with a screwdriver. The wheel itself is also a push fit on the serrated stub of the axle.


I am getting a little ahead of myself because first the body had to be removed followed by the keeper plate:

3_Components.jpg.ee62c16cbf0c9793310d30f10f7f8f51.jpg


And there you have it .....the basic components of the 14xx

For some bizarre reason I was reminded of my Army days.....stripping and assembling a Sten Gun.....and being surprised at how an effective device could be made up of so few parts.

Not sure about the Sten nowadays but by the time I finished the project I had definitely become an expert in stripping and assembling the 14xx

433775208_4.2Body.jpg.59e04fd575803894c6da3ab892edbdc8.jpg


The paint scraped off the body is an essential part of the design. Somewhat to my surprise the body is live. The etched collector plate is protected by a layer of plastic


4.8_Keeper_plate.jpg.7fac8b45c54828571c71bef707e2f617.jpg
.

Top right on the plate you can see a slightly raised tab which is unprotected......this contacts the exposed surface of the body and provides the left hand pick up. The RH being via the black wire (no colour coding in those days)

There are actually pick ups on all three wheel sets which I hadnt appreciated. The wipers are protected on the inside by the plastic interface and are a right pain when trying to replace the keeper plate. Almost inevitably one protective strip becomes misplaced/jammed and it was not uncommon for a pick up to become similarly mis-shapen. In fact the LH Front pick up above succumbed to metal fatigue and I had to substitute a different keeper plate from the "spares " box

Once the tired wheels had been replaced, everything except the body was reassembled for testing on my rudimentary DC test track

5_testing_on_DC.jpg.8cd7e0d1b7303e0121b2c0a43b4a8e7d.jpg

Electrically I had no issues......... everything went smoothly. Mechanically it was a different story. I understand the basic concept of quartering (I think) but never having done it before and having no tools ( I assume there is some device?) it all had to be done by eye........ie trial and error.......lots of stripping and re assembling....hence my new found expertise!


Finally I got it sorted and was pleasantly supplied at how smoothly it ran..........time to add a decoder:

Unfortunately I then got a little ahead of myself......I fitted a Zimo MX617 and found room in the bunker for a 6700 u/f Supercap.....same configuration I now have in all my Panniers......checked everything on the programming track and the performance was absolutely stunning. Body back on.....crew in (legs intact) and off running on the layout...........but forgot to take any photos!

So in view of that success here is a photo of a second converted loco  (why not.... I have enough spares!)

7_Chip.jpg.8c89648da2b02c409ae78adc903213db.jpg

You may have wondered why there was a second loco in the DC test photo........here it is ......all done with decoder fitted and blue and grey wires waiting for a Supercap from Youchoos.


When I started on this exercise I wasnt really expecting much. At best, hooked up to an autocoach out and back or perhaps, a horse box roundy roundy, neither involving any uncoupling. In fact the loco performs with more accuracy and at lower speeds than the better of my two DJM 14xx.

 

Visually, despite the finishing touches I have added, she is not in quite the same league:

 

12_DJM_Dapol.jpg.ee60a3bf17dcff24fd2ff275cb7a1966.jpg

She is still looks a bit clunky but will definitely pass muster as an ultra reliable RR&Co layout loco. Now I have to decide where best to employ her.

I think I need to make a quick video to prove that all this adulation is justified.

Regards from a very happy camper in Vancouver

John

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Great work John

 

Since moving to EM around two years ago I have become interested in taking older models and seeing what can be done with them, partly because modern mechanisms are so fiddly and difficult to work on, and I like the challenge of taking a more basic model ad seeing what I can do with it.

 

Like you I have no background in engineering but I have managed to build a couple of Comet chassis in EM, if you can quarter by eye I'm sure you could build a chassis.

 

Still really enjoy updates to your site

 

Regards

 

Martyn

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Silk purse and all that John, well done!  The weathering you’ve done on the recent ones certainly looks the part.

 

Cheers

Tony

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18 hours ago, mullie said:

Great work John

 

Since moving to EM around two years ago I have become interested in taking older models and seeing what can be done with them, partly because modern mechanisms are so fiddly and difficult to work on, and I like the challenge of taking a more basic model ad seeing what I can do with it.

 

Like you I have no background in engineering but I have managed to build a couple of Comet chassis in EM, if you can quarter by eye I'm sure you could build a chassis.

 

Still really enjoy updates to your site

 

Regards

 

Martyn

 

 

Hi Martyn

 

Glad you like my posts........thank you. You are right about the complexity of modern mechanisms. The Hattons/DJM 14xx is perhaps, in every sense,  a special case but I doubt if I could strip and assemble that!

 

You clearly have far greater mechanical aptitude than I if you are building in EM. I do admire and envy that skill level  but I am afraid it is not for me...............although I must admit if somebody doesnt come out soon with an RTR PBV I may be forced to try my hand again with Comet sides!

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

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2 hours ago, trw1089 said:

Silk purse and all that John, well done!  The weathering you’ve done on the recent ones certainly looks the part.

 

Cheers

Tony

 

Thanks Tony........from an expert like you that is praise indeed.

 

I guess I have learned a lot from you over the years.

 

This opening shot of 1420 is the original weathering I did 10+ years ago before I started using powders..........I am afraid I didnt dilute the grimy black wash  and then didnt wipe it down properly

 

1_intro_14xx.jpg.f87802365fbc7f8722ff48717298519b.jpg

 

It was the only body with a shirt button (the livery I wanted) . I renumbered it to 1401 (Croess Newydd 1947) and tried to create a more balanced overall look.

 

12_DJM_Dapol.jpg.5a3a1baf5418850f8d391a7e70397160.jpg

 

..........although looking at it again  I think I need a light dusting of powder on the smoke box ......I wanted a sheen not the look of a Guardsman's toe cap! The spare lamp should be less pristine too.

 

The loco on the left, 5801, is the DJM version shown as a comparison. ............The original weathering was one of the disappointments of the release......it was supposed to be lightly weathered but came with a very heavy uniform brown spray....totally lacking in subtlety. Again I attempted to balance it out using powders.

 

Hope you are keeping well despite everything

 

John

 

 

 

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All good here John, very few cases in our state but a big outbreak down south has us a bit concerned.  The work from home thing has been a boon for my modelling though, no travel and knocking off around 5ish means lots of time for the layouts you’ve seen on my thread.

 

Re the weathering, to be honest I really prefer 1401 to 5801 because it really highlights the detail well and has enough variety to keep the eye interested.  Factory weathering is just too uniform usually.  One of the things I try to do is make every “panel” slightly different as it was a trick I learnt from a 3D artist who worked for a software company as it keeps the eye “busy”.  That might mean differences in sheen, marks on the boiler or tanks, fire irons etc.  For 5801 I think the flat look all over is what still makes it not quite as good as 1401.  Maybe a coat of floor polish on the tanks, cab sides and bunker might help, but as always, if you have a pic of a similar tank engine, that is the best guide.  
 

In the end though, the result you have got from resurrection of the Dapol version is one you should be very satisfied with!

 

Cheers

Tony

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8 hours ago, john dew said:

although I must admit if somebody doesnt come out soon with an RTR PBV I may be forced to try my hand again with Comet sides!

A K40 using Comet sides on an old Airfix or successors' B Set shouldn't be too traumatic.

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9 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

A K40 using Comet sides on an old Airfix or successors' B Set shouldn't be too traumatic.


Thats what I was alluding to

 

About 4 years ago Mallard did all the hard yards for me on just such a project . The Comet sides were delivered to him in the UK and half a B Set shuttled back and forth across North America.
 

I spent forever doing the finishing and I guess it can be described as an ok layout van....Mallards contribuition was super but I am not that satisfied with my part.......hence the reluctance.

 

But never say never!

 

John


 

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Thanks for that walk through of the project John, very useful and well executed. I think you underestimate your own skills.

 

Can it pull less now without the tyres? (Not that it could ever pull much!)

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Hi Mikkel

 

Good question

 

I hadnt really thought about that because at most it will pull two coaches and a van.......it does that with ease  Including the rather fierce gradient up from the branch level

 

I will try it on the long goods train and let you know.

 

Best wishes

 

John

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On 09/07/2020 at 21:03, Mikkel said:

Thanks for that walk through of the project John, very useful and well executed. I think you underestimate your own skills.

 

Can it pull less now without the tyres? (Not that it could ever pull much!)

 

23 hours ago, john dew said:

Good question   I hadnt really thought about that because at most it will pull two coaches and a van.......it does that with ease  Including the rather fierce gradient up from the branch level

 

I will try it on the long goods train and let you know.

 

 

They say that a picture is worth a thousand words:

 

 

 

872445036_8Closeup.jpg.68fe97e7ac937fc828fc869e66471f44.jpg

 

 

 

 

10_Long_Shot.jpg.3b755686d496ad19e75a147f51d34440.jpg

 

 

 

 

11_B&W.jpg.6dd779042aa58943634afa1c49d71b38.jpg

 

Helicopter shot. If the pilot flew any higher he would have needed oxygen....or more accurately .......I would have fallen off the step ladder.

 

There are 5 more wagons and the Brake Van out of shot! That is a total 18 wagons (Well wagon counts as 2) which is about the longest I can fit in the storage yard. In addition to the curve there is a slight gradient. The 14 xx managed it with ease.

 

Rather begs the question of why Dapol and Hornby persisted with traction tyres after they changed the chassis and upgraded the motor. Hard to believe this is just because of the Zimo Chip plus a Supercap.

 

A surprised and happy camper in Vancouver

 

John

 

 

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Thanks for testing it out John, and what a bonus. Next time I come across my old 14xx I'll look at it with different eyes.

 

59 minutes ago, john dew said:

Rather begs the question of why Dapol and Hornby persisted with traction tyres after they changed the chassis and upgraded the motor. Hard to believe this is just because of the Zimo Chip plus a Supercap.

 

Yes indeed. Maybe they never thought to check!

 

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