North Devon line services in 1980s

[Ramblin Rich]

@ Kenny (Rivercider) - thanks again, those dates are after Barnstaple yard closed so must relate to the out-and-back workings to Lapford only.

If I understand the acronyms the MO "COY" being a company train - ie a block working only, but the other days as "SLK" - ie still classed as Speedlink ? Does this imply other traffic was still handled at Lapford after Barnstaple closed?

 

@ Mike (stationmaster) - more colourful anecdotes! I'm choosing to model the mid 1980s as it's the era I remember (thought I've stumbled on the Barnstaple line since moving to the area & never experienced it during this time). I'm sure I'm seeing it through the proverbial "rose tinted glasses", it must have been challenging to say the least to have had to implement the changes you faced...

[Rivercider]

@ Kenny (Rivercider) - thanks again, those dates are after Barnstaple yard closed so must relate to the out-and-back workings to Lapford only.

If I understand the acronyms the MO "COY" being a company train - ie a block working only, but the other days as "SLK" - ie still classed as Speedlink ? Does this imply other traffic was still handled at Lapford after Barnstaple closed?

 

 

 

Yes you are correct about Company train and Speedlink, I should have added a note to explain.

 

Sorry I can't say what other traffic (if any) was handled at Lapford.

I was working in Bristol TOPS for 3 spells 1978-1985 1988-1991 and 1992-1996 (just)

the limit of our TRA (TOPS Responsibilty Area) for most of that time was Bridgwater.

We sometimes got UKF traffic to Bridgwater on Speedlink, so I guess Lapford did as well.

 

When Barnstaple Yard was open a number of the services did not appear in the WTT,

only in the Trip Booklet, unfortunately the only copy I have is dated May 1975 for the Exeter Area,

how I wish I had saved more paperwork from back then, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

 

cheers

[Rivercider]

. A sad day in many respects but the politicians wanted the end of Speedlink so that was what they got.

 

 

In the 1980s when I had a spell at Swindon WR HQ the Freight Planning team were constantly planning for cuts and closures.

 

I later remember speaking with one of the former Speedlink Managers after it's demise, and he observed that they had managed

to get rid of much of the traffic, but not most of the overheads.

 

cheers

[TomJ]

Hi Rich. I don't know how much space you have (go N gauge you know it makes sense) but here's an idea I had daydreaming whilst up with poorly baby last night. The similarity with the West Highland has already been mentioned (shortish loco hauled passenger, varied freight, mixed trains etc) so to take it one step further imagine the line to Torrington - or even Ilfracombe - remained open to passengers maybe a station inspired by Barnstaple (with heavy compression) could be operated in a similar way to Fort William. Some passengers terminate there but others carry on through, or maybe even just portions of. I'm not sure North Devon can justify a sleeper service but perhaps newspaper/parcel vans or even buffet cars can be detached before the train carries on. As well as freight to Barnstaple there could be local trip workings to the yard to be reformed. The yard doesn't even need to be modelled, just a spur to the fiddle yard.

Maybe a little far fetched but it seems just about possible in my head?

[Glorious NSE]

Tom, that was pretty much the idea for my imagined circa 2005 one, passenger trains (Wessex and SWT) would split and join to serve Ilfracombe and Bideford, and it would maybe be a mini-hub between two "Enterprise" wagonload trains - a 66 hauled ADJ-Barnstaple via the North Devon line and a 37 hauled train (due to axle loadings) from Exeter Riverside to Torrington and back.

[The Stationmaster]

 

@ Mike (stationmaster) - more colourful anecdotes! I'm choosing to model the mid 1980s as it's the era I remember (thought I've stumbled on the Barnstaple line since moving to the area & never experienced it during this time). I'm sure I'm seeing it through the proverbial "rose tinted glasses", it must have been challenging to say the least to have had to implement the changes you faced...

 

Occasionally 'challenging' but always interesting if not necessarily enjoyable although occasionally it could be great fun - one good example being the meeting where we took the Ardingly branch stone train working away from Brighton and transferred the work to a WR depot while at the same time saving a considerable amount of money. I've seen some 'ducking & weaving' over the years at meetings but on that occasion it was the SR management who were doing it (including one who threatened to thump me and was duly ejected from the meeting until he cooled down). Alas the freight rundown and shedding of traffic was unavoidable as long as the politicians insisted on it so there was a lot of that going on. Far more fun of course to be adding new stuff and I had the good luck to be able to do some of that as well - and still be able to watch it happening today if I happen to be in the vicinity.

[Ramblin Rich]

Folks - thanks for continuing input

 

I was working in Bristol TOPS for 3 spells 1978-1985 1988-1991 and 1992-1996 (just)

the limit of our TRA (TOPS Responsibilty Area) for most of that time was Bridgwater.

 

cheers

 

Kenny - thanks for further clarification. I love the fact that you get "nested acronyms" the 'T' in 'TRA' itself represents another acronym....

 

@Tom & Martyn - Noooooooo - don't start implanting further ideas, I have a pathological inability to make decisions, if you give me more choice I'll never get on with anything!

To be honest, I'd like to have a multi-era layout but haven't got the funds to allow at present. Must admit though, the idea of EWS, SWT & Wessex trains does appeal, I've already mooted keeping the Barnstaple cement traffic (plus others - roadstone as suggested, maybe scrap too?), always liked the SWT livery 159s..... aargh, there, see what you've done....?

[Glorious NSE]

@Tom & Martyn - Noooooooo - don't start implanting further ideas, I have a pathological inability to make decisions, if you give me more choice I'll never get on with anything!

 

LOL - something I also suffer from.

 

The multi-era thing would be easier with (say) 1981 (vac brake freights plus mixed trains) versus 1988 (speedlink network), at least with those then you can get away with keeping most "physical" layout bits like station signage the same, just change the trains and maybe some of the road vehicles.

 

Ref cost implications of two fleets, do one first which you'd always need to have done anyway, then once you are up and running you can spread the cost of building stock for the second period as thinly as you like as there is no pressure to have it operating until you're ready?

[cromptonnut]

Oh and if anyone knows of any Lima or Hornby UKF livery PWAs being available I would like to know!

 

 

B & H Models in Lincoln (http://www.bandhmodels.com/) had some in when I went up a long, long time ago, and it's still showing on their website but doesn't give stock levels. Might be worth a call anyway? They have a lot of old Lima stuff there.

 

I've got two but I'm keeping them!!!!

[Ramblin Rich]

@ Martyn - very pragmatic, as you say avoiding the obvious physical changes would be key. Late 70s/early 80s vs mid 80s certainly allow big changes in trains without altering the surroundings. For a more modern setting really would need to remove sidings & increase weed levels if going for the early 2000s look

 

@ cromptonut - thanks, I'm going to try a "Wanted" here on RMweb 1st, if that fails I'll give b&h a try.

[slow8dirty]

Hi Rich,

theres no panic for the PWAs. I've got a saved search on e-bay, they come up so frequently, either "new" or nearly new, at sensible prices, that I haven't yet got round to picking any up yet. Think I better now judging by the amount of interest in this thread.

 

As for stock for a layout, my own plans envisage a rolling presentation from 78 through to about mid 80's, which I reckon can be done without any change to the layout scene. Admittedly I was only a nipper, but I seem to remember a hell of a lot of old bangers out in the sticks round N Devon/Somerset. Cars are noticed by 10yr old boys!

You could start a session with blue 25s,31s and 33s, Milk tanks clay hoods and opens. Vanfits, Cement(not sure of the actual years for cement traffic?), occasional steel traffic etc.

First you'd lose the Milk then the 25s and the clay but then you can start to introduce the OTAs, Polybulks, Ciba Geigy TTA etc. traction wise you can get a bit of variety with an occasional RF grey 31 in amongst the blue. As time goes by 108 dmus appear regularly, on towards the 90's you get sily season, with 50,s 37s appearing on tours and down towards Lapford youv'e got evidence of triple grey 37s and 47s. Oh and lets not forget the GW and the British telecom DMUs. And for one offs theres trips by 158s and an HST.

And to think I was oblivious of this place at the time!!

 

Cheers,

 

Matt

[TomJ]

That's a really good idea for adding interest to a session. I'm planning for my Cornish Clay layout to run two periods: late 70s/ early 80s (25s and 37, vac braked wagons) and late 80s (clayhood/CDA changeover) with a bit of stuff in the middle as long as it fits. I don't mind using modellers license to bend things a little as long as it sounds plausible. So I might imagine a couple of 25s were kept on in the West for a few more years to work the minor routes. As long as you avoid anything daft like 25s on CDAs I think it can work.

 

Another interesting train I've seen for North Devon is a 50 with only 2 or 3 coaches, apparantly not uncommon in the late 80s to cover for DMU shortages.

 

Tom

[Ramblin Rich]

Matt, Tom - Hate to use this phrase, but "we're singing from the same hymn sheet"! I've always liked the idea of a slight flex in timescale, just to add some more variety. We are talking about a fairly sleepy rural line after all, so might need a bit of additional interest.

 

Another interesting train I've seen for North Devon is a 50 with only 2 or 3 coaches, apparantly not uncommon in the late 80s to cover for DMU shortages.

Tom

I give you Exhibit A m'lud - and push the "Next" arrow for Exhibit B. Shame it doesn't identify the locos...

I might have to get this thread moved to "Prototype discussion" - we seem to have ranged far from what I originally posted, but I'm really interested in what people have posted. This is really what RMweb does best, I'm very grateful & just hope I can make good use of all this information & not seem like a sponger who's posted questions & then drifted off into the sunset. Edited February 8, 2017 by Ramblin Rich

[slow8dirty]

I was going to thankyou for starting the thread, and say that its really benefitted my own project. But then I realise you've been holding out on us with that flickr site you just linked to, SPONGER!!

 

Seriously, there's some gems if you keep on scrolling through, first photographic evidence for me of bubblecars on the line and a DMU with tail traffic. Plus lots of other interesting shots. Sorry if this pulls the topic even further away but have just spent a very enjoyable half hour or so trawling through them.

 

Thankyou.

[Ramblin Rich]

Matt, you've obviously got further than me! I only found the site earlier when looking for class 50 pics- I knew there were some of a 50 at Lapford with failed DMU but think that's gone to the big hole in the sky that was Fotopic...

[bcnPete]

 

 

I might have to get this thread moved to "Prototype discussion" - we seem to have ranged far from what I originally posted

 

Nah...just get that trackplan going and posted to bring it back round

[Fat Controller]

Just to throw a wild card in here- I have seen some photos of an 08 working the yard at Barnstaple. Any ideas when this duty might have finished? The photos were on one of the many sites which disappeared with Fotopic.

[owentherail]

HI, from memory the 50 and Barney is 08 and at eggersford is 36 on flickr link. Traction mag did a piece on loco hauled to Barney in 80s some time ago. Ive a pic of 37673 on civils at Barney, not that i can find it !! owen

[slow8dirty]

Not sure of which year but I believe it hung on till the early 70's (just)

Hth

 

Matt

[Ramblin Rich]

The picture of the 08 in Barnstaple I remember was on Ken Baker's Fotopic site. As Matt says, seem to recall an early 70s date.

 

HOWEVER - this note was at the bottom of the 1980 TT that Matt linked to in the second post:

 

In 1980 Barnstaple was still quite busy, besides the passenger trains.

 

There was a daily freight 0430 Exeter Riverside to Barnstaple and 1915 return. During the locomotive's time at Barnstaple a trip was run about 1030 'Down Over' to Torrington, Marland and Meeth and return then an afternoon milk trip to Torrington and return, the locomotive then shunted and formed the 1915 to Exeter Riverside consisting of Milk tanks on front (which were taken onto St Davids for attaching to the 1640 St Erth to Kensington Olympia Milk train), then clay wagons for Fowey, empty Vanfits (normally for Avonmouth), finally any other wagons including unfitted wagons and a brake van if required.

 

There was also an 08 shunter at Barnstaple (manned in the morning only) for general shunting including the cement wagons (up to 10 a day) which needed moving to/from the silo a few times a day. There were vanfits of animal feeds and fertilisers, wagons of mostly plate steel loaded on special 'Trestle' bogie wagons, mostly from Scunthorpe for Appledore Ship yard, laterly delivered from Barnstaple Junction Goods Yard by Evans haulage after the BR-owned delivery/collection lorries were withdrawn. There were also odd wagons each week for Chivenor plus the clay wagons to/from the two ball clay works at Marland and the now-closed Meeth.

So this implies the 08 may have survived until 1980...!

[Rivercider]

The picture of the 08 in Barnstaple I remember was on Ken Baker's Fotopic site. As Matt says, seem to recall an early 70s date.

 

abbreviated

So this implies the 08 may have survived until 1980...!

 

 

Rich I think an early 1970s finish for the Barnstaple pilot is more likely.

My May 1975 Exeter Area Trip Booklet only shows the following 08 trips:-

 

No. 20 Exeter freight trips

No.21 St. Davids Pilot

No.22 Riverside No.1 pilot

No.23 Riverside No.2 pilot

No.24 Newton Abbot freight trips

No.25 Newton Abbot passenger pilot

No.26 Meldon Quarry shunt loco.

 

Newton Abbot had 8 class 08s on the books in those days,

I think the 8th one was often spare at Exeter.

Its nice to dream though!

 

cheers

[Ramblin Rich]

I agree, 1980 seems a bit dubious. Re-reading the text it refers to milk traffic from Torrington which I'm sure finished around 1978, so seems likely the notes relate to earlier working practices. Shame really....

[slow8dirty]

As with all evidence, needs to be looked at in comparision with other sources.Mind you noone authorative has given an narrowed down date. And just cuz the Jocko had probably gone by the 80's in the big nasty 1:1 world.............

(for the record I havent' decided whether I'll use one or not yet)

 

Cheers,

Matt

[Ramblin Rich]

He, yes - we can be "plausible" - after all we might be changing history a bit to retain clay trains etc. Just avoid having a Deltic on 3 mk1s (would be impressive though.... )

[Rivercider]

I like your idea Rich, stretching things a little, but keeping it plausible.

 

I have kept thinking and looking in my books for some traffic that has been missed out,

but I think it has all been suggested.

The vanfits to Torrington as mentioned by Dave were fertilizer from ICI Severnside,

they used to be sent out in blocks of 10 generally. ICI only loaded vanfits, not vanwides

they were very specific about that, something to do with their loading procedure.

 

The only other traffic that may have been about in the very early 1980s would have been seasonal,

beet pulp nuts bagged in vanfits from East Anglia, for use as animal feed.

I can remember there were specials arranged from Whitemoor or Temple Mills to Riverside

often a class 31 with about 30 or 35 vanfits for various locations, so possibly Barnstaple got some.

Also the occasional vanfit of seed potatoes from Scotland, may have arrived.

 

Good luck with your plan, most of my back of an envelope plans have been based former LSWR

lines or proposals in north or east Devon. I am another prevaricator.

 

cheers