cpman46 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Dave you need a separate (usually) 12V dc supply and a switch actuated by the point motor to switch the supply to the LED. If you are using normal 3mm or 5mm LEDs you need a resistor (about 1000 Ohms) in series with the supply to limit the current through the LED. Each LED when illuminated will require 15 to 20mA so your power supply will need to be rated at sufficient current to supply the on LEDs. Best bet is to count the total number of LEDs, multiply by the current say 20mA to arrive at a suitable rating for your power supply. A 12V 1A dc plug in transformer will be good for up to 50 LEDs at 20mA each. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeighties Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hi mate, the led's have their own independent power supply. Cheers, Lee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hi Dave Also on my web site - Warn the neighbour! Have a look here, it may give you some inspiration? http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-2.htm#Mimic%20Panel%20Indications. If you're DCC then you can use the DCC power, if so have a look here..http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.htm#Point%20Indications%20on%20DCC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveblueozzie Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) My brain is hurting with all the info . I am now starting to get the items needed for the control panel, I dont think i will bother with led's for the moment, they can be added later if i think i need them. I have ordered the on/off/on switches and the CDU, and a 16 volt plug in power adapter. Regarding the power adapter, is there some kind of socket or similar i can buy to plug it into that i can fit at the back of the control panel rather than cutting the end off and fitting to a terminal block which is a bit permanent and not as portable . EDIT, think ive just found on this forum what I'm after, D CONNECTORS. I am going to make the control panel with a perspex top, one of my friends makes car decals and he said give him a plan/drawing of what i need and he will make a stick on vinyl cover for the perspex top, i can then make the holes to fit the switches. i think that will work . Edited March 8, 2012 by daveblueozzie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted March 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2012 Here is my work in progress. I've spent way too much time on the software but now changes can be incorporated pretty quickly. I'm now working on the electronics that will drive everything. Kev. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyfarmer Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I am in the process of making my own panel, all homebuilt and being kept as simple as possible. Boxes are made from MDF and only joined by a small wooden strip at the back which is out of view when the panels are in position. Above each panel will be the points and lighting diagrams. Not sure yet if these will be flat or upright but will be sandwiched between thin sheets of perspex so as to make them rigid and to protect obviously. Left panel controls the two main train circuits, with the switches controlling the 15 points. I need to add another switch and re-number the bottom row to accommodate the 15th. The right panel will control the small goods yard and lighting. Both panels are hinged so they can be brought forward for working on and in fact, by doing so, it makes for quite a comfortable position whilst soldering etc. Male/female plug in connectors are screwed to the main board and wiring from the panels simply plugs in so if needed, the panels can be quickly taken off site with minimal disruption. So far, 8 points are wired in and I'll finish off maybe this week. I'll then attack the lighting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Here's the control panel for my layout , Snitzl - in my blog l/http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1082/entry-8996-construction-for-snitzl-control-panel/ Cheers Snitzl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghlawrence2000 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) daveblueozzie I had the same idea as you!! Add the LED's later...... This is what happens... I am the creator of this wonderful project....... It is my parents' layout "Pfaffenbrucke", first of all, let us start with the original 'semi' neat version of the panel.... Here you see the front side, which was produced on a laminated A3 sheet of paper by our local printing shop. This was then attached to the Perspex lid of the panel using aerosol photo adhesive. Here you see the underside.... And finally, here you see the inside..... BUT............Then I decided I wanted "Pretty lights" !!!!! OOOOOps.......... That was not a bad idea......but it certainly spoiled the aesthetics of the panel..... Now let us see the result of adding LED's...... Here we see the 'new improved version' of the panel lid..... However the depth of the panel did increase almost by double to accomodate the extra circuitry to drive the LEDS So now we move on to the inside of the panel...... Not looking quite so neat now.... And finally the overall view of the inside of the panel.... There is however 1 positive aspect of such a scary looking panel........and that is.....it disuades would be wannabe faultfinders from 'dabbling'!!!! Incidentally, for the LED's alone, was an additional 96 wires in this case......... And to conclude this story, there is further work currenly underway to make this layout a 'one man' operation, as we are currently adding the fiddleyard control panel onto the main control panel....... Of course this will also include the necessary 'pretty lights'!! So you see, there is no "right way" or "wrong way" to build a control panel......So long as it does what you wish it to do.......That is all that matters.... I wish you well with your future projects... Edited April 8, 2012 by ghlawrence2000 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted April 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2012 WOW! GHLawrence2000. There is a lot I caould say/ask/recommend here but... If it works and you're happy then that's really all that matters. Might I suggest you 'cover up' the exposed mains voltages inside the control box. Maybe only you will 'dare to' go in there at the moment, but you don't know about the future. Dare I ask if any of it is colour coded? Regards, Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghlawrence2000 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) WOW! GHLawrence2000. There is a lot I caould say/ask/recommend here but... If it works and you're happy then that's really all that matters. Might I suggest you 'cover up' the exposed mains voltages inside the control box. Maybe only you will 'dare to' go in there at the moment, but you don't know about the future. Dare I ask if any of it is colour coded? Regards, Kev. Specifically what?? Mains voltage has correct colour coding....... and we did try heat-shrinking the mains terminals.......although it split..... Incidentally, I am an electronics technician and mains voltage or otherwise holds no fear for me.... Graham Edited April 8, 2012 by ghlawrence2000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted April 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2012 Hi GHLawrence2000, I'll take that as a "no" then for the colour coded wire - except for the "Main leads" that is. I would still recommend that the Mains Terminals, on the Transformers, be covered up to prevent any roaming hands/fingers/necklaces/etc from touching them now or in the future. Preferably using Perspex as an overall guard above the Transformers. Regards, Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghlawrence2000 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Hi GHLawrence2000, I'll take that as a "no" then for the colour coded wire - except for the "Main leads" that is. I would still recommend that the Mains Terminals, on the Transformers, be covered up to prevent any roaming hands/fingers/necklaces/etc from touching them now or in the future. Preferably using Perspex as an overall guard above the Transformers. Regards, Kev. Specific colour coding of what???....... Yes i am logical.......the LED common is white.......the rest are unique within the 12 colours I had available??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveblueozzie Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) OH MY GOD, you've scared the do do out of me, I was just about ready to make the control panel now that ive nearly finished the layout wiring. After looking at your control box ive had to have a rethink on whether mine is gonna be big enough with what ive got to do and the possibility of adding led's later. Edited April 8, 2012 by daveblueozzie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I am an electronics technician and mains voltage or otherwise holds no fear for me.... That is a very dangerous assertion. Mains voltage should always hold fear, because it can kill. Most electrically qualified people, myself included, have had a 'belt' off of the mains at one time or another, more often than not due to inadvertant contact with a bare terminal or touching a badly earthed machine and a well earthed machine at the same time. Most of the time, we let go very quickly, go and fill out the accident forms and have an ECG. Complacency can lead to fatality. One day the shock might be a heart stopper. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghlawrence2000 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) That is a very dangerous assertion. Mains voltage should always hold fear, because it can kill. Most electrically qualified people, myself included, have had a 'belt' off of the mains at one time or another, more often than not due to inadvertant contact with a bare terminal or touching a badly earthed machine and a well earthed machine at the same time. Most of the time, we let go very quickly, go and fill out the accident forms and have an ECG. Complacency can lead to fatality. One day the shock might be a heart stopper. Not only do I agree with what you are saying, but also back it up................Electrics are not to be underestimated.........They DO kill.........But more accurately what I meant to say, is I personally have worked with live electrics for many years...... 3 Phase 415V does ACTUALLY hurt quite a lot.......... 1 phase 230V is just a tickle really Sorry for any misunderstood disregard for perceived risk of electrics....... Graham Edited April 8, 2012 by ghlawrence2000 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Not only do I agree with what you are saying, but also back it up................Electrics are not to be underestimated.........They DO kill.........But more accurately what I meant to say, is I personally have worked with live electrics for many years...... 3 Phase 415V does ACTUALLY hurt quite a lot.......... 1 phase 230V is just a tickle really Sorry for any misunderstood disregard for perceived risk of electrics....... Graham No problem Graham. I fully understand where you are coming from as a fellow 'sparkie'. We are both qualified to open mains cabinets and stick out hands inside, be it single phase or three phase, but some members of this forum aren't. I just didn't want unqualified members of this forum who might be reading this, and in the process of building a panel, to under-estimate the dangers of working with mains power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghlawrence2000 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 OH MY GOD, you've scared the do do out of me, I was just about ready to make the control panel now that ive nearly finished the layout wiring. After looking at your control box ive had to have a rethink on whether mine is gonna be big enough with what ive got to do and the possibility of adding led's later. I got 'clever' with my LED's, and the circuit to drive them was quite sizeable........If you dont plan to use intelligent logic, then maybe your existing panel design will be fine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveblueozzie Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) No problem Graham. I fully understand where you are coming from as a fellow 'sparkie'. We are both qualified to open mains cabinets and stick out hands inside, be it single phase or three phase, but some members of this forum aren't. I just didn't want unqualified members of this forum who might be reading this, and in the process of building a panel, to under-estimate the dangers of working with mains power. I understand basics about the INVISIBLE DEATH but i dont mess with it if i can help it, 12 volt is bad enough when it sparks. My only dealings with the mains on my layout is plugging the socket in. What is intelligent logic regarding the led's Edited April 8, 2012 by daveblueozzie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 What is intelligent logic regarding the led's I think you need to ask Graham - its his control panel. My take on intelligent logic is that it is programmable, i.e. with a microcontroller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted April 9, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 9, 2012 Perhaps the readers of this thread can help. Does anyone know where i can get hold of self adhesive tape in several colours to mark out my track diagrams with, I'e tried my local car shops and haslfords and seem to be drawing a blank on the internet. I need at least 4 colours and in 6mm wide so that I can differentiate the various power sections. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noiseboy72 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 The panel for my layout - Hopwood. It uses a Merg DCC points encoder and deocder set, plus an LS150. The panel is laser printed onto waterproof paper, so can be wiped clean with ease. There are just 4 wires from the panel, power plus DCC. The switch positions show the route set. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Perhaps the readers of this thread can help. Does anyone know where i can get hold of self adhesive tape in several colours to mark out my track diagrams with, I'e tried my local car shops and haslfords and seem to be drawing a blank on the internet. I need at least 4 colours and in 6mm wide so that I can differentiate the various power sections. Jamie I was going to use Halfords lining tape, but it is too much aggro around holes for switches, indicators, etc. Its might be just as well to mask and paint the different coloured lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghlawrence2000 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) What is intelligent logic regarding the led's I think you need to ask Graham - its his control panel. My take on intelligent logic is that it is programmable, i.e. with a microcontroller. Baby Deltic is correct in his statement about programmable or microcontroller regarding intelligent logic........ However in my case that was not actually what I meant. Our layout has twin controllers, each of which is capable of being used for any section on the layout. Eg. Section switch is up, the panel mounted controller is active, section switch is down, and the 'walkabout' controller is active........centre off and the section is dead. When this layout goes to exhibitions my parents receive help from a variety of people, and to be honest it is not the easiest of layouts to operate for someone who is unfamiliar with it. The main motivation was a practical one to make operation easier, however I have long wanted to see lights on the panel . My criteria for this was to indicate using bi-colour Led's which controller was active for any particular section and also which route was set. There are many ways to do this type of thing, however since the layout wiring is already complete, I decided all necessary wiring would be contained in the panel and not interact directly with the layout. Further more as has been mentioned elsewhere, it is possible to use the switch on many pointmotors to drive LEDs/BULBS, but the points on Pfaffenbrucke are 'Live frog' as such that was not an option for me. When the panel was initially built, I had various ideas for the future about diffent things i would like to do with lights, so it was already decided that section switches would be double pole - double throw - centre off (DPDT) from the beginning. I am not sure how far to go into detail on this, or if this is the correct thread for it? But I will give short form theory behind how I have done it on our layout. If You wish to PM me, I can elabborate in quite extensive detail if you wish..... Let me show you first how to achieve Red/Green from 1 switch per section. If you just have a single controller, this might be suitable to indicate ON/OFF for example, but in our case it is used to indicate the active controller. That is all that would be necessary for plain track without points....... Since most layouts have points........This is how I indicate the point direction AND active controller. The theory is one bi-stable relay per point motor wired in parallel with the point motor. From the included picture, it can be seen LED 'A' is just a function of the position of the switch, LED 'A1' and 'A2' are a function of the position of the switch and also the direction of the point motor. That is it in simple theory.......... I am not going to explain further here, but it does become a little more complex when cascading point motors....... This is the general overview of what was needed for our layout. Finally, here we see the finished circuit. Front centre is the +- 5V power supply for the LEDs, derived from a standard 16VAC transformer. If you would like further informtion, PM me. Graham Edited April 9, 2012 by ghlawrence2000 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghlawrence2000 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 The panel for my layout - Hopwood. It uses a Merg DCC points encoder and deocder set, plus an LS150. The panel is laser printed onto waterproof paper, so can be wiped clean with ease. There are just 4 wires from the panel, power plus DCC. The switch positions show the route set. I love the 'blandness' of your 'DCC' panel!!! Neat and uncluttered!!!..... However this is a "non-DCC' thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Geeee Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Here are some pics of my control panel. There are more than 30 switches for points, various on/off isolator switches, switches to power turntables, and 4 rotary switches to give me CAB control to four sections of the layouts, and a CDU underneath to boost the point solenoids. The pictures are not fully up to date, ther are some more crossover points at the main station and added switches in the middle of the panel to control the turntable and sidings in the engine shed section that was added to the layout later. The black Hornby control is used to provide the power to rotate the turntables. All other power comes from a guagemaster Q4 controller. Maybe not the pretiest but it was my first effort and works a treat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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