Leon Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hi all, Having learnt that RMweb followers have a wealth of knowlage I thought I would ask this question. Can anyone name a use for the two CAR Brake vans I have on my South Wales based 90's freight layout ? My knowlage of Brake vans is limited ! are they used to brake older non vacum rolling stock? Growing up, every yard seemed to have a brake van in it especially my visits to Radyr, I have bought two more than likely for the wrong reason, more so that I liked them rather than needed them. I was thinking I could use them on the Docks branch part of the layout along with the 08/09 shunter. I cant or have never seen a need for a brake van on block freight trains of Class 56&60's pulling long rakes such as Coal, Petroleum, friegthliners etc. Stock at the moment currently using the docks branch is Cargowagons/VGS's & OCA's for steel traffic. Short rakes of TTA's will also be sent along the branch to the docks along with MOD, Chemicals, Grain, and Timber. If I can not come up with a use for them they will just have to decay in the sidings I guess. Thanks for your help. Leon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted July 19, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 19, 2011 By the 1990s they were rarely used on trains. Typically you'd find them when propelling moves were required (i.e. when reversing a train into a siding or onto a branch line), or where extra train crew were used for operating crossing barriers. Either could be a reason for using them on your docks branch. They were also used on trains carrying dangerous cargos (such as nuclear flask wagons and some chemical trains), so that in the event of an incident the loco crew didn't have to walk past the wagons to protect the train from the rear. Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 In their original role they would be to brake and also to protect the rear of a train which is unfitted or partially fitted (which might mean a mixed train of vac and air braked stock) - it would be quite likely for yards to have had brake vans when that kind of thing was common but which then just sat there once the role had gone, so having a couple sat in the corner of the yard is plausible. The more modern use is as a place for a crewmember to ride safely in a propelling move though, which is what I would assume the one in your pic was used for judging by the train (it's not in propelling mode in the shot, but it presumably would be at the opposite end to the loco on one leg of the journey) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Leon, As has been said, the general (later) use for brake vans revolved mainly around either (i) dangerous goods e.g. nuclear flask traffic, or (ii) propelling moves. . If I remember, there were a couple of Metals Sector brake vans based at Tidal Sidings during the very late 80s / early 90s, but I don't know what their regular duties were; most likely they were based there 'just in case'. . There was also a van based at Barry WRD for use in moving 'crippled wagons' to/from repair; I saw it at Cathays, again in the late 80s/ early 90s. I may have their details somewhere, if you want them, just let me know. Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 That would be great Bri if you have any more infor on them, I forgot to mention the layout has a wagon repair shop and I was thinking of using one when moving wagons from the yard/Docks to the wagon works but im unsure if this would have ever happened. Im not having Nuclear but may so Chemicals can be tripped to the Docks. Thanks Leon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Allocations of brake vans, South Wales. Metals & Automotive Sector 1989 954616, 954739, 955104, Tidal Sidings 954734, Newport East Usk 955045, Ebbw Vale Metals & Automotive Sector 1993 954734, 955026, Tidal Sidings 955101, Newport East Usk Yd. trips to Isis Link, Orb Works on the East Usk Branch. Speedlink Distribution 1989 955127, Newport East Usk Coal Sector 1989 955153, Barry (MGR cripple working) Not allocated by sector 1989 954898, Radyr Yard (spare) Condemned, awaiting disposal 1993. 954702, 955152, Radyr Yard. . 954734 was one of two vans later sold to Allied Steel & Wire, intended for transporting group visits around the two works. One was gutted (by vandals ?) and 954734 languished in Tidal Sidings after ASW went to the wall in 2002. The picture shows it at Tidal in November, 2004 I hope this helps . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC Rob Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Hi Leon, Reading this post reminded me of the picture at following web page: http://www.bescot.plus.com/class56 56032 on the Leicester to Cardiff scrap metal train which included a brakevan for shunting moves in Leicester. Probably one of the Tidal ones? Something to work on if it takes your fancy. Cheers Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 And here's one I mentioned earlier. . B955153 branded "TO WORK BETWEEN / BARRY SHOPS AND SOUTH / WALES CRIPPLE POINTS" . It was taken (through the fence and into the sun, unfortunately)at Cathays C & W. . I haven't got the exact date to hand, but the stored Cl.155 unit may narrow it down !!!!!!!! . What a place Cathays C & W was, always something different. . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Thanks Brian, your pics & knowlage never fails to amaze me....I just about remember the last few years of Cathays and like you said it was a great place, remeber passing on the train and there was always wierd and wonderfull things there. What a place to base a model on oneday perhaps......Just out of interest would the pic have been taken fron North Road side or the opposite site were the road enterance was? Rob, Great pic thanks, 56032 is the only 56 I have at the mo so definatly something to model, just need to get those wagons next...... Thanks again guys, really helpfull. Leon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Intresting shot showing a possible use for a brake van on my layout.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted July 21, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2011 Neither of these are South Wales but may give you an excuse: The occasional train to Akeman Street had a long propelling move from Calvert and continued into the early 90's (sorry I don't have a final date but must have been later than 1990 as I filmed it after moving into current house). Traffic was bagged fertiliser in covered vans (not sure of designation of van type). Edit: Propelling move was FROM Akeman Street TO the 'mainline' Calvert-Aylesbury The Redmire branch train also conveyed a brake van as the long branch had many manual crossings and conveyed crew for gate operation. (PGA's?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdlcs Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 An OT query regarding the photograph of 954734at Tidal Yard (br2975 00:37): Any idea what the next wagon in the line was? Appears to be a bogie vehicle with bolsters but high flat ends. Painted in yellow/grey 'Dutch' livery so presumably a departmental vehicle and TOPS code Y-something. [i often look at pictures and find something in the background or off to the side that is more interesting than the main subject :-) ] P.S. The other ASW van may have been vandalised (burnt out?) but looks like this one was singed as well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 ......Just out of interest would the pic have been taken fron North Road side or the opposite site were the road enterance was? Leon, The photo was taken from Maindy Road Lane, looking across to North Road. The lane ran from the railway bridge on North Road, near the Bearmach premises and joined Maindy Road where that road made a bit of a 'dog leg' I believe there's now student accomodation where the industrial units are in the background. One memory I have of Cathays C & W, was showing our club layout at the "Taff Vale 150" open day there, and being called away to collect a competition prize from the then local BR manager (ISTR it may have been John Davies). I'd correctly answered the question "which station has the longest platform in Wales ?" The prize was free first class travel to any station in the UK for two adults, and two children; and I was asked "where will you go ?" . My reply was "I've just remebered a long lost aunt in Kyle of Lochalsh" . . . . . never even raised a titter, but I had my tickets made out "Waun-gron Park to Kyle of Lochalsh - return". . Travelled to Inverness and hired a motor home for a week, toured the Highlands .... brilliant. Unfrotunately, we returned from Waverley on a sleeper to Bristol TM and as we had first class tickets, piled into the lounge car - and ended up having a debate with the steward, who denied us entry as we needed sleeper reservations; threatened to call the BTP and have me removed. Then, when I got to my seat in a TSO, I was handed a questionnaire by BR staff, asking my views on the service !!!!!! I couldn't really complain, as I worked out the tickets were worth £800 plus at 1990 values. Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 An OT query regarding the photograph of 954734at Tidal Yard (br2975 00:37): Any idea what the next wagon in the line was? The wagon to the left of B954734 was a BDA/BEA bolster. The wagon to the right, with the high ends is another steel carrier, a BNA, but I can't recall which one. The photo shows another BNA, 965068, at Tidal during 2005. Hope this answers your question ? Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted July 21, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2011 Neither of these are South Wales but may give you an excuse: The occasional train to Akeman Street had a long propelling move from Calvert and continued into the early 90's (sorry I don't have a final date but must have been later than 1990 as I filmed it after moving into current house). Traffic was bagged fertiliser in covered vans (not sure of designation of van type). Edit: Propelling move was FROM Akeman Street TO the 'mainline' Calvert-Aylesbury The Redmire branch train also conveyed a brake van as the long branch had many manual crossings and conveyed crew for gate operation. (PGA's?) i might be wrong, as i'd have to find the DVD in question, but i think these are on the 'rail freight today' series (i have the 5 DVD box set from 2006, which i got cheap from 'the works'.) was this the one where it was palletised, bagged fertiliser, offloaded by fork-lift from VGAs or similar.(i.e. one half of the side swings out and is slid along to access the load) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 i might be wrong, as i'd have to find the DVD in question, but i think these are on the 'rail freight today' series (i have the 5 DVD box set from 2006, which i got cheap from 'the works'.) You're not wrong ! Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Just checked my notes, the two ASW brake vans were B954532 & B954734. . B954532 was parked, gutted, outside the ASW wagon repair shop on 12th. April, 2002. . ASW also had an ex-BR(GWR) Toad, W35377 which was used for re-railing duties and numbered "RR1". . This wagon usually hid within the safety of the works (billet bank) in order to prevent the theft of it's contents e.g. generator, compressor, tools, packing, floodlights etc. . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdlcs Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 The wagon to the left of B954734 was a BDA/BEA bolster. The wagon to the right, with the high ends is another steel carrier, a BNA, but I can't recall which one. The photo shows another BNA, 965068, at Tidal during 2005. Hope this answers your question ? Brian R Yes it does, thank you. I hadn't realised that some bogie bolsters had high ends like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I hadn't realised that some bogie bolsters had high ends like that. I should have added that the wagons were rebuilds of BPA Bogie Plate's, carried out in the late 80s, for carrying things like aluminium slabs/ingots. . Looking at the deck, it would be eminently suitable for carrying 'rebar' as well, perhaps that was the reason they gravitated to Tidal ? Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Thanks guys, Brian what a story...Great..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Reposting a question I asked in a more obscure thread (on transfers) Can anyone advise on the shade of yellow (preferably Railmatch reference) used on CAR brake vans for both early and late baxuite liveries. I'm trying to repaint a couple of Hornby CAR vans... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47475 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 It would also be interesting to know more about the livery on CAR in the original photo of this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 1 hour ago, 47475 said: It would also be interesting to know more about the livery on CAR in the original photo of this thread. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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