TartanTrax Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 A number of members of this forum had quite a lively discussion following the demonstration of our local RailCom detectors at the 2009 Model Rail Scotland Show in Glasgow. In the interests of updating any interested parties with what we have been up to since then, I thought I would mention here the progress we have made subsequently. Basically, following comments made on the old RM Web forum we decided to develop things further so as to make them much cheaper and, if possible, more reliable. We have also now run them using Railroad & Co's Traincontroller by emulating the Tams' protocols. As these are slightly limited we hope to also emulate the Lenz protocols quite soon as these will match the capabilities of our device far closer. We have also spoken to a friend who is interested in writing support for our RailCom readers into JMRI which would be excellent. There still seem to be a number of myths surrounding RailCom doing the rounds on the internet such as the one that states that tungsten lighting in your coaches disrupts the bi-directional signal. I can confirm that this is utter rubbish as we have run tests with as many lit coaches as I could fit on the tracks and no reduction in RailCom signal quality could be detected. We have also explained why this would be impossible on our website (www.dcc4pc.co.uk). There are also numerous pictures of our products as well as listing some we are currently working on. I hope this was of some interest to those that took part in the discussion on the forum a couple of years ago. You know who you are. (Please note that prior to posting this note, permission to do so was sought and granted by the moderator.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Thanks for the update. I will take a look at your site when I get a bit of time to spare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticket man Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I have not seen any other follow up to this topic, so I thought it was worthwhile to mention that I have just recently installed the DCC4PC Railcom Reader and PC interface. With 16 blocks connected it does exactly what I wanted in that with a single wire connection to the track I get not only full occupation detection but also a read out of the loco number (address /Tams ID). I work to UK "N" scale using Lenz equipment and Train Controller by RR&Co and operate a layout with manually set routes and an extensive fully timetabled set of schedules, run automatically by TC, all of which interlock with each other. There is now no need to "assign a train" as you just move a loco , generally with the Lenz handset, to a block and it is picked up by RR&Co. With no sign yet of the Lenz Railcom Plus system this has been a very cost effective way of achieving the same basic effects.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Good to hear you have been successful with Rays detector. We spent a few hours on the phone talking about its use,set up and Railcom in general I'm pleased its going well. How have you got on with multiple railcom fitted locos in one block. Regards TTG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticket man Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 In respect of the last two replies to this topic, I apologise for the delay in getting back to you, work has intervened. I am still testing with all the operations I currently run, and have not had time to to test the two locos in one detection section. I hope to do this later this week and report back. I have noted that where, for example a DMU with lights at both ends, but power in one, with decoders set to the same address in each unit, the display reverts to a Tams ID of 255, whereas if each car is moved separately to the detector zone then the correct Tams ID is shown..However the text identifies the correct train in either case. Both Ray and Malcolm of DCC4PC have been most supportive with some of the issues I had in installing the system, one of which was incompatability with Windows XP, which was quickly resolved once identified. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hi, Interesting. I hope to meet up with Ray next week and have a good chat about all this but any further experiences you have to share with us will be gratefully appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 ...With 16 blocks connected it does exactly what I wanted in that with a single wire connection to the track I get not only full occupation detection but also a read out of the loco number (... By 16 blocks I take it you mean 16 isolated sections, each with a single wire back to the detector board. Do you have to have particular decoders installed that are Railcom enabled or will the system pick up any active device on track, albeit without then reporting full ID, etc. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 They act as standard block occupancy detectors so a wagon or coach with lights or resistor wheels sets will cause the block to show occupied. Meeting Ray next week so should be able to gets lots of info on all this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticket man Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 An update, and I hope an answer to some of the queries. 1. The Railcom Reader will detect two locomotives, however with the Tams link in to "Train Controller" each block will only show details for the 1st loco to arrive, however when that loco leaves the remaining loco is correctly displayed. 2. Each of the 16 outputs is connected to a physically isolated section of track with the same rail cut in each section. In my case each section was already connected to a Lenz occupancy detector. 3. All stock with Railcom decoders will be detected and the correct details will be displayed. Non Railcom equipped will only show occupancy.Modelling in "N" scale and almost entirely modern image the display will for example show "170 504 LM". I have incidentally taken the opportunity to to totally rearrange the the on-screen switch board in TC with no loss of schedules etc, which was most pleasing as I had always put off the the job for fear of loosing too much data. Welsh hills and a good internet connection do not go hand in hand, hence the delays in responding. Could blame the cold weather I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hi I think an important point to note is that you are using a CS / booster that can interrupt the dcc signal (Lenz). If people have a DCC system without this ability they will need to add a device that will do it for every booster. Small thng but thought it was worth mentioning. Regards Kal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanTrax Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Good question, I'd like to know the answer as well, given that our club is slowly making the transition to RailCom on the various modules our members own. Our current setup limits us to only loco hauled trains, but the prototype regularly uses push-pull and double-traction trains some members like to emulate. Like to hear if and if so, how you solved it Hi all, The ability our boards have for reading several RailCom decoders in a single zone was something we felt was essential when we first started designing our readers. Fortunately the RailCom specs seem to have assumed this was a requirement. We have tested this ability and it really does work. From comments like the ones above as well as several elsewhere it would appear that how this can be done is poorly understood. For this reason we have put an explanation on our website (www.dcc4pc.co.uk) on the RailCom Uses page which describes how this is done. Essentially it is a little complex and most of the software out there will need to be upgraded in order to do this before users can benefit from this feature but as it will be needed for consist building etc. it is inevitable that they will. In the meantime we are also working on our own train controlling software and this feature will definitely be included from the start. We are also communicating with a JMRI developer and hopefully this feature will be included in their support for our products as well. RR&Co supports this for transponding but as they only support Tams and Esu with respect to RailCom and as neither of these support multiple addresses per zone, we are likewise restricted until RR&Co supports our protocol directly. Hope this has added some clarity. Kind regards, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 As an aside Ray and probably a wee bit off-topic, I see Uhlenbrock have now joined the band of manufacturers supporting RailCom. Long in the Digitrax LocoNet camp, they've just announced a number of Railcom products (detectors, transmitters and decoders). . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 As a suggestion associated with Dutch Master's request would it be possible for the pc interface device to link by usb to say a tablet screen or by dongle to a smart phone for people who do not want to use a pc. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanTrax Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 As an aside Ray and probably a wee bit off-topic, I see Uhlenbrock have now joined the band of manufacturers supporting RailCom. Long in the Digitrax LocoNet camp, they've just announced a number of Railcom products (detectors, transmitters and decoders). Hi Ron, Yes I had noticed this and read the blurb (in the original German). On one side I'm pleased that Intelliboxes are likely to come out with a cutout in future which is a good thing. The more supportive Command Stations the better. As regards their decoders, also very chuffed as this potentially adds more sound-equipped RailCom decoders to the mix which may reduce prices. Auto-triggering sounds using RailCom has massive potential so very pleased. The only slight disappointment was their twin zone detectors. These have clearly been designed to complement their Lissy system. Like Lissy you apparently need two detected zones one after the other in order to tell which way the train is going. Not seen any prices yet so watching with interest. I'm uncertain why some manufacturers have designed their kit this way as the RailCom spec clearly provides for locomotive orientation (red & black decoder wires attached to left and right wheel pickups gives a polarity to the DC RailCom transmissions) which when coupled with the DCC commands (forward or reverse) tells you exactly where the locomotive will be going next before it even starts to move. How else do you do block control etc. using RailCom? The spec also covers multiple decoders in a zone as mentioned on our website. We are puzzled as to why, when the full RailCom feature set is so superior to what other systems can provide, these manufacturers don't take full advantage of these benefits. . Thanks Ray, much appreciated! If I may: I noticed you aim exclusively for computer control, right? Problem is that I can't see a method to display both RailCom detected addresses on a single display (like the one Lenz offers, or those from Tams), which is actually important for our way of operating (strictly no-PC control!) Have you considered developing this? Simple 4 digit BCD display and either one or 2 buttons to switch between the addresses. Hi Dutch, When naming our company we were being very honest. Our stuff uses computers. Anyone with an irrational allergy to software running on hardware should avoid our kit. While you're at it, also avoid DCC. Seriously though, there is a concept nowadays of a computer in a box. These things are very common and you all probably own at least a few already. Your mobile phone is probably one, your TV and satelite decoder, set-top boxes, freeview decoders, video recorders etc. probably are as well. If you own one of the more advanced Command Stations like a Viessmann Commander or the ECoS from ESU, they are also computers in a box. We assembled a computer in a box command station about a year ago. The computer was about the size of a CD case and it had a fair sized colour touch screen. Not bad but we felt it could be cheaper and smaller. We are watching another British manufacturer with great interest. They have produced a PC the size of a playing card which has really excellent graphics capabilities and is very cheap. (Around 20 quid. Look out for Raspberry Pi.) The aspects Rob (his post has just come through) mentioned become a doddle when you use powerful kit like this. USB, Ethernet all on board with WiFi added by us. Will you be aware that you are using a PC running Linux? I very much doubt it. Don't worry about the PC angle. We'll make sure they don't bite. Regards, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanTrax Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thanks again for the reply Ray, much appreciated. FYI: I'm an exclusive Debian user for the last 6+ years (and dual-booted before that) and I've done my bit in promoting the Pi, mainly on Linux forums like LinuxQuestions (I'm a senior member there) and Linux Format (a UK Linux magazine, also long standing senior member in their forum). I also build my own computers from parts I've selected myself, having studied electronics, so I think it's fair to say I know a bit about that technology My first venture in DCC was in 1994, with the original Roco "Digital is Cool" set, using the first N-scale decoder Lenz made (in 2 parts!) in a small tractor style NG loco. In all, I've done 40+ DCC conversions (for myself) and for a while my then website was leading for converting Bemo stock to DCC. Said website is now offline, as it had outdated decoders listed. I was also part of the committee that started the transition of our club from DC to DCC and my equipment was used for the first ever club DCC operating session back in 2002 and has been used as such at shows subsequently for a while. My question came from the knowledge how our club operates, but I think it's safe to say you won't be developing that particular display No offence, that's your executive decision as owner I'm confident your products will meet the requirements of your customers, but at present I'm not too confident we (as a small and foreign club) will be part of that customer base There are, however, individual members who'd consider working with RocRail, so things might change in the future Hi Dutch, Some of what I said previously was very much tongue in cheek and really not meant to imply you were stuck in the dark ages. Unfortunately most model rail enthusiasts do not have anything like your level of expertise which is also OK but means we will need to work quite hard to make the computer layer as transparent as possible. My son and I were both smiling broadly reading your post as we, between us, have quite a lot in common with respect to our computing backgrounds and we also started our involvement with DCC with a Digital is Cool set from Roco. (One of the locomotives in our You Tube videos is from that set.) We tried to consider what options were possible for RailCom without using a computer but concluded that computers would be an essential part of any system intending to take effective advantage of any of the features made possible by this technology. If all that was needed was a numerical display of the decoder address then people could buy the Lenz LRC120s. I know we will never convince everyone but that's OK. All we can hope for is that people will check our website out from time to time as new products come on stream and maybe one day they will see something they like. Best wishes, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Meeting up with Ray tomorrow to talk all things Railcom. Looking forward to a good number of hours of chat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 TTG, When you do get to meet Ray, do ask him if his system will support ECoS either direct through ECoSLink or via ESU's promised L.Net Loconet to ECoSLink adapter. Or perhaps Ray might tell us himself via this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I will leave him to tell every one his product news. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticket man Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 God afternoon, Just a little update. I now have 31 detected sections using the "Railcom Reader",so that when the system turns on all report back correctly. i admit that it has been a steep learning curve, but the simplicity of it all with it's integration with "RR&Co Traincontroller" has made the exercise worthwhile. I have taken the opportunity to completely re-design the switchboard without loosing any schedules, except for those routes where I now use on screen connectors, which was a simple task to run through all the schedule adding the new routes ie to and from a connector.. So tongue in cheek I would consider the most sophisticated, efficient and cost efficient way to achieve realistic operation of a model railway is to use a basic DCC system that supports Railcom, with the "Railcom Reader" and ""Traincontroller" to handle all the data. A totally gimmick free set up, unless of course you consider it a sort of neurosis to want to achieve this in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 A box full of goodies is on its way from Ray for me to play with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveArkley Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 God afternoon, Just a little update. I now have 31 detected sections using the "Railcom Reader",so that when the system turns on all report back correctly. i admit that it has been a steep learning curve, but the simplicity of it all with it's integration with "RR&Co Traincontroller" has made the exercise worthwhile. I have taken the opportunity to completely re-design the switchboard without loosing any schedules, except for those routes where I now use on screen connectors, which was a simple task to run through all the schedule adding the new routes ie to and from a connector.. So tongue in cheek I would consider the most sophisticated, efficient and cost efficient way to achieve realistic operation of a model railway is to use a basic DCC system that supports Railcom, with the "Railcom Reader" and ""Traincontroller" to handle all the data. A totally gimmick free set up, unless of course you consider it a sort of neurosis to want to achieve this in the first place. Out of interest what basic DCC system are you using? Do you have multiple power districts ? Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TartanTrax Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 Hi all, Sorry not to have responded sooner but I have been away this last week and will be away next week as well and arrived home to a wife with a long list of DIY jobs needing urgent attention. Firstly, Going Underground asked regarding ECoS compatibility. We have tested our hardware with an ECoS and it works perfectly with the cutout they produce. Regarding whether we link to the ECoSLink, sadly no as we have designed our system to link direct to the PC running Traincontroller, Rocrail and hopefully soon JMRI as well. If this looks like a viable possibility down the line we may well revisit this option but it's not likely to be soon as we have quite a full product list to keep us out of mischief for now. Thanks Ticket man for your comments. You really have been a fantastic customer and we shared your steep learning curve. Your ability to unearth some quite obscure bugs caused by some strange Windows foibles, odd bios behaviour when booting up and even some odd things in Traincontroller have resulted in some fixes in the emulation layer we would probably never have known were necessary. We really can't thank you enough for all the thorough tyre-kicking you have done for us, all of which has resulted in a more robust product. Whether playing with trains causes neuroses I really couldn't say. My wife believes full-blown insanity would probably describe me better I think. Thanks everyone for your interest. Best wishes, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 ....Firstly, Going Underground asked regarding ECoS compatibility. We have tested our hardware with an ECoS and it works perfectly with the cutout they produce. Regarding whether we link to the ECoSLink, sadly no as we have designed our system to link direct to the PC running Traincontroller, Rocrail and hopefully soon JMRI as well. If this looks like a viable possibility down the line we may well revisit this option but it's not likely to be soon as we have quite a full product list to keep us out of mischief for now.... In that case I'll be sticking with ECoSDetector as I'm not planning to go RR&Co for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticket man Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Out of interest what basic DCC system are you using? Do you have multiple power districts ? Cheers Dave Dave I use a LENZ Set 100 and do not have any separate power districts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticket man Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Just a little up-date for those who may be interested. As you may recall I had installed two "DCC4PC Railcom Reader" boards connected to 32 separate blocks on the layout. Over the past three months or so I have tried to replicate as many different operating scenarios as possible and this has thrown up the occasional glitch. However the "makers" Ray and Nick have been very approachable and fixes have been sent through, so that by the beginning of June I was very pleased with the operation of the system And then! RR&Co release version F7 and what was a good system became probably the very best train detection system currently available. Right from placing a Railcom equipped loco on a detected section, the loco address is instantly displayed, and whether it is manually controlled or operating a schedule it remains displayed correctly. (The on screen orientation may need adjusting). Whilst disliking the phrase, the system might be described as "plug and play" as it is so easy to install.and great value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.