Allegheny1600 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Hi Gents, I'm terrible! Just a couple of weeks after i started a thread (on the old site) about my experiments with Proto 87 - which i still really like! I now find myself constantly drooling over the likes of Atlas 0 scale in US outline. I already have a substantial collection of US H0 outline stuff - i've modelled US H0 for some 20 years now and while it's absolutely great, i think the time may have come to look at moving up a scale as i do have some British 0 RTR and indeed some German (Lenz and Rivarossi). So my question really is: how does Atlas 0 scale compare with, say Heljan British 0 or Lenz German 0? I am aware that US 0 is actually 1/48th scale compared to British 0 at 1/43rd or German 0 at 1/45th(!) so does US 0 still run on say, Peco RTR 0 track or Lenz track for that matter. What kind of minimum radius does Atlas require? Actually i've just downloaded the Atlas track catalog and it looks like 36" is the minimum set-track radius! BUT: i'm still confused with things like 0-27, 0-31 etc. Does this refer to the gauge or radius? What is the difference between Atlas Master, Trainman & Industrial? Can Atlas, Lionel, Weaver & MTH et al, all run together? Especially with digital control? I suppose i'd better lay for groundwork for what i want/have got to play with! I have a fair bit of Lenz trackwork that was bought for my German outline stock, lots of straight track, five points (at 65" radius) and a complete circle of 2nd radius curves which are 40.5" radius! This is to go in my attic which has just got room for a oval layout - probably scenic'd one side and storage sidings on the other. I would be looking at basing my modelling on some part of the Jersey Central (CNJ) probably late fifties to early sixties as i love Alco RS3's, RSD's, FM Trainmasters, GM F units, GP's etc. If i could ever afford a brass "Babyface" or "Double ender" - i would be made up but don't really want to sell my whole H0 collection just for that! I'm not looking to run big modern superpower diesels or steam, really. Mainly freight based unless i can get some reasonably accurate coaches later on. I have a Gaugemaster Prodigy 1 or a Roco Multimaus to power it all but if i need to upgrade, would probably choose an NCE powercab. Well, i think thats about it - heres hoping that someone may be able (& willing!) to answer this rather lengthy series of questions. I've placed this in "Overseas Modelling" as i feel it's the most appropriate place but, please correct me if i'm wrong! Many thanks in advance if i do get any responses, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-59 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Not being in O-scale my self i can't speak to quality of bands. But US O runs on 32 mm track like most other O-scale. We also have both AC 3-rail and DC 2-rail(IIRC Atlas makes their locos in both) O-27 O-31 etc refer to diameter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcoRS1 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 one of my local hobby shops here in Portland, OR, says that Lionel and MTH have there own control systems, in the O scale would they don't interoperate with each others controllers, but both controller can be used on the track at the same time. They should of adapted a standard like DCC has been for the lower scales. O scale can be made DCC though, I been thinking of an G or O scale layout too, a small one with also alco, I like RS1's. in O scale I love the fact that the diesels have smoke generators. Maybe I should make it a garden layout. I have no knowledge of O scale, so I could not answer these questions for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Hi guys, Thanks for responses so far. After studying the Atlas downloaded track catalog some more, it did begin to dawn on me that the designations 0-27, 0-31 etc MUST mean track radius as i saw other dedsignations like 0-64 and 0-72 etc. It does seem strange indeed that some manufacturers should adopt their own unique control system, preventing other makers stock to run on "their" systems. Why not say "okay, DCC is here to stay, we'll go with it"! I do know that MTH has bucked the DCC trend in H0 from an earlier post on here but it strikes me as rather foolish. Ridiculously so in a less well supported scale such as 0. Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted October 13, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2009 John: The designations of O27 and O31 are both specific and general. Lionel traditionally made 2 types of track: O and O27. O was a heavier track (like Hornby O) while O27 was a lighter track, intended for starters until they could move up to proper O. O27 had a diameter of 27" -- measured to the outside of the ties (No kidding!) while O had a diameter of 31" -- measured the same way. So sme people started calling it O31. But they also made wider radii. There was a 72" diameter that matched O and was called O72. Sometimes there was O42 that matched O27. I don't have my Lionel catalog handy, but I think there are now 3 radii in each size. Note that the more prestigious size is the larger track, not the finer one. I don't know if the other diameters are also measured over the ties; I think not. The newest Lionel track is called Fastrack. Plastic base with roadbed, and much more expensive. The 3 versions will not join directly together but there is a transition track from Fastrack to O. There are other manufacturers of track. I don't think any of them are directly compatible, except Gargraves matches O. The track gauge has always been quoted as 1 1/4", but the diagram showed it measured to the center of the railhead. I think that everyone now supplies Lionel compatible couplers. Some manufacturers supply locos in both tinplate (3-rail) and scale conditions. Be aware. Lionel make trains from decidedly toy-like to near-scale. The radius requirements match. And different control systems are the Glory of Free Enterprise! (Didn't she sink on the Channel Ferry run?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted October 13, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2009 Oh, there was a thread here about Transformers because Lionel wasn't inclined to make any for 240V 50hz. This was a year or 2 ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcoRS1 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Glory of Free Enterprise! (Didn't she sink on the Channel Ferry run?) The Ferry was called Herald of Free Enterprise, it was the first ferry ever went on. she flip on here side outside Ostend @John, I personally like the quality of all the MTH loco at the local hobby store, if I do O scale, I for sure am not doing third rail, I don't like that pick up wheel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERROR02 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 If you want realism and your main interest is diesels then stick to Atlas 2-rail MTH does make 2-rail models, that only run on their DCS system. But they make far more less models in 2-rail than Atlas. If you would consider steam locomotives then MTH could be of interest. I have both systems. I like the simplicity of the system versus the DCC system especially in forming lashups and it is wireless as well. i like their steam locomotives, but when you're a rivet counter then you will be dissapointed, rd Rail or Sunset would then be a better choice. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted October 15, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2009 Just be careful with whether you get a 3 rail or 2 rail model. From my experience of US locos if you see 'O Scale' then you will get a better and more accuarate model than if you see 'O Gauge'. O Gauge is usually the 3 rail lionel type stuff. This often compromises on scale length/wheelbase, in order to get round the small radius curves. O Scale is the accurately modelled side of the market. MTH, Rail King and I think Williams work in both and Weaver tends to be O scale. These tend to ahve die cast bodies. For the really good stuff look for the word Brass. This is the super detailed stuff usually made in Korea and imported by firms such as Sunset Models, Overland and others. It can come either in plain brass or factory painted, but I would add a very strong health warning. They can serioulsy damage your WEALTH and could lead to penury and divorce. O scale brass is also addictive. From my own experience O scale will all run on standard Peco code 124 track. US O Gauge kit generally has larger and I think deeper flanges. Also the slight scale difference usually allows you to get US sized locos underneath British bridges though you can have problems with claerances on platform edges. It can be fun, I run a UP 4-8-4 on my Midland 1923 based layout at shows and kids keep asking to see the 'Big black engine' at shows. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Unfortunately my thread on my O scale locos is buried back in the old RMweb somewhere and as far as I know inaccessible at present.... I'll have to start a Blog about them... Here's my points for consideration... - For some strange reason 3-Rail O scale is still very popular in the US. Any designations like 0-27 etc seem to be mostly associated with 3-Rail. Avoid 3-Rail locos like the plague. Some 3-Rail wagons ('cars') can be converted to 2-Rail just by swapping the trucks & wheels, but a lot of 3-Rail cars are not accurately scaled. From now on I am only talking about 2-Rail:- - "New" Atlas locos run superbly, right up there at the top. I say "New" because Atlas first released some O scale stuff in the early '70s (made by Roco) which is good for it's age, but the current range is superb. I have an SW1200 Switcher and GP35 that can creep far better than my Heljan Hymek. - Locos can get around 2foot (yes, 24-inches!!) radius curves BUT will pull the stock off the track whilst doing so, due to insufficient coupler swing. 4ft and above will be fine. - almost everything is designed to take the standard Kadee #805 coupler... none of the myriad variations as in HO. - Usually Peco track is no problem. I have had some wheelsets with a slightly smaller back-to-back that struggled through the frog & checkrails, but opening them out slightly cured the problem. - US O scale is significantly cheaper than UK/EU O scales (Brass excepted!!), even with fluctuating exchange rates and Import Duties when buying direct from the US. If it comes up on Ebay it tends to go fairly cheaply too as there is less interest in it from UK modellers. - the one downside is the ammount of space it takes up.... although the ability to take sharper curves than UK stuff can (with buffers and 3-links) does help. Here's a few pics of some of my stuff... (The F-Units and GP9 {#401} are from the original Atlas/Roco range- better F-Units are available in the new range) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 The Ferry was called Herald of Free Enterprise, it was the first ferry ever went on. she flip on here side outside Ostend [nitpick mode] It was just off Zeebrugge where she rolled over, not Ostend, Townsend Thoresen Ferries didn't sail to Ostend, only Dover-Calais and Dover-Zeebrugge, I sailed on her a few times and her sister ships. The disaster spelt the end for TT ferries who could no longer trade and were sold to P&O. [/nitpick mode] Interesting thoughts on US 7mm, I to am looking for some modern locos, either RTR or preferably brass kits, not ready made like Overland, nice as they are, the price is a little out of my pocket range at this juncture in life . Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Interesting thoughts on US 7mm, I to am looking for some modern locos, either RTR or preferably brass kits, not ready made like Overland, nice as they are, the price is a little out of my pocket range at this juncture in life . For US Brass kits this is a range you might like to look at... http://www.mike.calvert.btinternet.co.uk/GilmaurDiesels.htm The maker is actually based in Devon, so you don't even have to import them!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh wizard Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi just come across this post so sorry for the late reply, at the moment I have both Weaver and new Atlas locos and rolling stock on my shunting plank and the quality is superb the older weaver Loco,s run ok but are not a patch on the newer atlas locos, the peco 0 gauge track is ok but I will relay with the atlas o gauge when gaugemaster gets some in ,so to your enquiry the answer is its superb for the price I havnt regretted going American 0 and its great for hands free switching (shunting) Merv from a rainy south wales coast...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 For US Brass kits this is a range you might like to look at... http://www.mike.calvert.btinternet.co.uk/GilmaurDiesels.htm The maker is actually based in Devon, so you don't even have to import them!! Many thanks, I'd been looking for Mike Calvers products for a while with no luck, sadly it doesnt look like his GE Dash8 is in the catalogue anymore, though listed as a future possible, that'd be one I'd grab right away. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Stewart Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Michael, Drop Mike Calvert an email and I'll bet he'll be glad to help. Mike's kits are very good and his aftersales support is first class. I'm presently building his U18B kit which I would recommend. Colin Many thanks, I'd been looking for Mike Calvers products for a while with no luck, sadly it doesnt look like his GE Dash8 is in the catalogue anymore, though listed as a future possible, that'd be one I'd grab right away. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Stewart Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Here's an inprogress photo of the Gilmaur (Mike Calvert) U18B siting on FB trucks Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Here are a couple of pics of Mike Calverts SW1500 and his -8. The -9 was a test etch from him to see what I thought of it. I don't know if he ever marketed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m davies Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Brian, I've not seen the Dash 8 marketed yet, as Colin suggests, perhaps a mail to ask if he has any more spare test etches might be in order, it does look to build up into a nice model. Kindest Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasond Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Apologies for discovering RMWeb so late, but there's only so many forums you can scour before the wife jams the coal bucket on your head. Anyway, I've been DEVOTED to US O-scale since 1969, modelling the Delaware & Hudson (New York state RR now owned by CP Rail) in 2-rail, 12vDC. Just recently I acquired a switching layout from a man with a coal bucket on his head who was having to get focussed. I think this will be DCC/sound. I am so devoted that I've been importing stuff for many years - some more proactive than others - as Quince Valley Designs. Currently an AtlasO, Weaver, Sunset dealer, going to Llanbedr on Sunday 6th, Hampsthwaite March 3rd and hopefully Halifax GOG in June. Website at www.quincevalleydesigns.co.uk needs a prod, but I've got some of the new Atlas U23Bs, Trainman 60ft passenger cars, track, 2nd-hand, etc in stock. btw Mike Calvert and I used to do Gilmaur together. We started with a U33C back in the 70s. The dollars earned in the US paid for stuff to be brought over here. And that's when the overdraft began. Now we are at opposite ends of the country, we've split the business, but collaborated on the Winchester Meet (non-British O-scale meet) 16 October 2010 (www.winchestermeet.info). If Mike isn't doing -8s, Atlas will be bringing out a C40-8W in their Trainman line with sound at the end of the year. btw2 AtlasO Master Series means road-specific detail, Trainman is more generic in details (both 2- and 3-rail), Industrial Rail is O-27 (3-rail only). AtlasO uses QSI's DCC implementation, which you can also run on 12vDC and get the sounds with a QSI Quantum Engineer box wired between your controller and the track. Or roll your own with a Loksound (dual-mode) decoder and a Broadway DCS Commander or MRC Black Box. 2-rail MTH with DCS works on 12vDC, but is not compatible with DCC, but may be some time in the future (already is in HO?). Again an MTH box will let you play more than just basic sounds on 12vDC. Weaver is good value, some models better executed than others (eg: modern mechanical reefer with sound!). As reported before, there are some cracking Lionel freight cars, look for the ones where their blurb says something like 'separately applied metal details', just factor in the cost of 2-railing them. I keep Kadees in stock and try to keep a selection of wheels and trucks (bogies) . If anybody is still with me, I'm always pleased to chat on about one of the hobbies best-kept secrets (US O-scale that is...) - 01524 427185 if you have any questions! Regards Jason Dickie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 Thanks Jason and also to everyone else who has contributed to this thread, Jason's post is most opportune as i have been looking at the Atlas 0 scale site again, this struck me as MOST appealing: http://www.atlaso.com/ogp9a.htm D'oh!!!! Better get disposing of some of my H0 stock, then! Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Jason - noting you are a D&H fan, and the comment about the lack of time to scour websites - If you haven't already found it, you might be interested in this http://www.frankenmodell.de/dh.html . In German, but the piccies are nice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasond Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Wow shortliner, wish I hadn't mentioned this switching layout I've acquired. Still it's only the boards - well and the track. And some nicely weathered buildings. I shall take full credit for putting the legs back on.... John, selling stuff is boring. What you need to do is get down the A494 towards Ruthin (10 mins from Warrington) and at Llanbedr DC take the last right before you leave the village - B5429. The village hall is along on the right. So that's next Saturday 6th Feb, 11.00am onwards. It's one of the local Gauge 0 Guild groups - friendly bunch. Test track, members' sales, me, refreshments. Speaking of which, watch out for Megan's snack bar in a lay-by on the A494 about 5 miles before. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Don't worry about it, welcome to RMwebs DarkSide modelling club! Fortunately we don't have any coal buckets in our house Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERROR02 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 to give you an idea about the runnning quality of MTH 2-rail locomotives, a couple of movies of my Mohawk and SD 70 locomotives. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cg-hv_dAIE Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 to give you an idea about the runnning quality of MTH 2-rail locomotives, a couple of movies of my Mohawk and SD 70 locomotives. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cg-hv_dAIE Paul Nice! I didn't know MTH even does 2-rail locos; I was under the impression it was all 3-rail..?!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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