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Hi Justin,

 

Fantastic work on the wagons!  The GW plywood van is interestingly missing from the vast range of 4mm GW kits and RTR models out there on the market.  The 5-plank open looks in some ways analogous to the SR Dia. 1375 and the LNER Dia.178., (Cambrian and Parkside kits respectively). I think there was an GW version too.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Edited by Colin parks
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Hi Colin,

 

Thank you. It's intersting that you mention the similarities between the LMS 5 plank and the others built at the time by pre-Nationalisation. From what I can gather they were essentially all the same wagon with the same width planking and door size. The ironwork and rivet detail differed between each company and the thickness of the planking varied depending on when they were built (1 1/2" hardwood during the war and imediate post war and 2 1/2" the rest of the time). It's interesting just how different the various Parkside and Cambrian kits that cover this 'family' are from each other (and that also includes the BR Shocopen in the Parkside range). The Parkside sides from the BR steel ended open somehow look right and it's a fantastic moulding detail wise which is why I started with it for the LMS open. I would probably use them as a starting point for any SR and LNER 5 plank opens as well in preference to the other options with revised artwork for the etched bits.

 

A decent 10' wheelbase GWR 5 1/2 plank is also a curious omission from what is out there as is an LMS/GWR/BR period gunpowder van. LMS 12T plywood and all wood ventilated vans wouldn't go amiss either! Instead we get two lots of shunting trucks from the RTR boys...

 

Justin 

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Hi Justin,

 

The list of omissions looks like a good few ideas for possible 4mm kits or RTR models. Perhaps these work horses of the system just are not exotic enough for some manufacturers (or modellers?) to take interest. But when old photos are analysed, it becomes clear just how many variants of the humble open wagon and goods van there were on the rail network right onto the sixties or even a bit later.

 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

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Firstly some virtual modelling before we move into the realms of things that actually exist in the physical world.

 

Last time I mentioned some wagon springs that I intended to get 3D printed. These have evolved to included axleboxes and even more spring types. So far I have done drawings for 6 types of axlebox and 6 types of spring. All are for the BR period covering four types of oil axleboxes and two types of roller bearing along with 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 leaf springs and the LMS 7 leaf J hanger types as fitted to wagons with the LMS clasp brake. The backs of the axleboxes are slotted to suit my sprung underframes. These are currently with Modelu awaiting printing.

 

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The BR 1/801 Fish Van saga is nearly at an end. Aside from trying to sort out the roof one of the things that has delayed the whole thing has been revisions to the etch artwork and another test build. These have been in an attempt to make the body as easy as possible to build without losing any detail. I’ve seen plenty of etches that look fantastic but at the same time a nightmare to actually put together.

 

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The general method is to laminate together a series of layers for the sides and ends using wire pins to keep everything aligned. You end up with what you might expect to find in a Parkside kit. Everything is then attached to a central frame. Nothing original about the use of pins to align layers but it work so well I can’t understand others don’t use it more often.

 

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The first of several etches for the bogie bolster C project has been assembled. This is a complete underframe for one of the vacuum braked examples that were fitted with BR plate bogies (the arrangement of the brakegear was slightly different on those fitted with Gloucester bogies).

 

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The trussing is from 1.2mm L section, cut at the relevant points and bent to shape over an etch frame. Other etches will cover unfitted underframes (including D/C brakegear) and simple levers and vees to detail the Bachmann model.

 

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The original intention was to use of Bachmann bodies with these underframes however this is currently under review. There are things about them that don’t look great (the top of the solebar being moulded onto the body side for one) but also because the plastic used is a pig to work with. With my period being the mid sixties I want several Bogie Bolster Cs with the steel channel bolsters rather that the wooden ones on the Bachmann model. This means removing the bolsters on the Bachmann model which is not easy at all. So I’m currently thinking about creating a master for the body and getting them cast to go with the complete underframes.

 

I’ve also recently undertaken a couple of interesting commissions.

 

Firstly are 3D printed signs for Robin Gay and his Wantage tramway project. The artwork was created from pictures and a sample font for the lettering. The quality of the 3D printing from Modelu is fantastic. The 4mm version is just 23mm long!

 

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Second is an etch for windows for Bitterley signal box. This is for Gordon Ashton’s latest project. Gordon wasn’t happy with the suitability of what he could find already available so I had a go using photos of the box and known dimensions.

 

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I shall look forward to seeing the end result of both of these items at some point!

 

Justin

 

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Some Superb looking stuff* there Justin. Let us know if anything will be available at Wakefield. I may need to adjust my finances.

 

P

*Lover of Stuff.

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Wibbling furiously...

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Some Superb looking stuff* there Justin. Let us know if anything will be available at Wakefield. I may need to adjust my finances.

 

P

*Lover of Stuff.

Hi P,

 

There will be a full list of the new items in a couple of weeks. The fish van will be amongst them as will my version of the 17'6" x 10' LNER clasp brake chassis. I'm hoping to have the first of the bogie bolster etches for Expo EM with the rest at scaleforum along with the first of the freight bogies.

 

I know an accountant who goes by the name of Paul and will be assisting me at Scalefour North. He maybe able to help you with any necessary finacial adjustments.  ;) See you in Wakefield.

 

Justin

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....you did say that those juicy 3D printed axleboxes/leaf spring assemblies would be on your stand at Wakefield....didn't you Justin?

 

Dave

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I know an accountant who goes by the name of Paul and will be assisting me at Scalefour North. He maybe able to help you with any necessary finacial adjustments.

 

Funny that, I also know an accountant who goes by the name of Paul. Now if he could arrange to have the cost of the refurbishment of the cricket pitch seen in the attached photograph secretly transferred to my bank account I think it may have the desired effect on my facial adjustment.

It will probably be more conducive in altering it from it's current  permanent grimace :sad_mini2: to a far more harmonious smile. :smile_mini2: 

post-508-0-25171000-1456871061.jpg

 

P

Edited by Porcy Mane
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Decent looking J hangers! At last!!

 

The difficulty is that I'd quite like to do several of these things but the Bogie Bolster C has just taken the lead. That looks exquisite. :)

 

Adam

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....you did say that those juicy 3D printed axleboxes/leaf spring assemblies would be on your stand at Wakefield....didn't you Justin?

 

Dave

Hi Dave,

 

I'm definately hoping to have the test prints on the stand at Wakefield. The current plan is to do whitemetal castings from the 3D prints via lost resin brass castings. If the initial prints are good and the artwork doesn't need too much tweaking there's a chance of having some of the castings available for Scaleforum later this year.

 

Justin

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No virtual modelling in this update, all real world stuff. I collected the 3D test prints of the BR era axleboxes and springs yesterday morning. The weather was much brighter this today so I had chance to take a few photographs:

 

5 leaf spring with BR '16T' oil axlebox

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5 leaf spring with BR 2 part square oil axlebox

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6 leaf spring with BR 2 part oil axlebox

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LMS 7 leaf spring with BR platefront axlebox

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BR 6 leaf spring with hooded roller bearing

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9 leaf spring

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The only thing that I'm not completely happy with is the definition in the gap between individual springs. This is entirely down to my drawings so I will rework them and see if I can get a bit more of a gap. Modelu's printers have tried to do it but it was a bit too small on the artwork. The 'steps' visable in some of the prints will be taken care of once the casting masters are in brass.

 

This shot is for comparison with some of the springs that are already out there. Along the top are, from left to right, an MJT 5 leaf spring with RCH axlebox, a Wizard models LMS spring with J hangers and an MJT 9 leaf.

 

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Something else that I've been playing with is a mechanism for springing buffers. I've never been very fond of little coil springs in the buffer housing. They always seem to stick, vary in size and so spring rate within a batch and are most of the time seem too strong for their purpose. So I've done a few test pieces which use steel guitar wire for the springs. They are of sourse intended for use with my chassis and the initial results are very promising. Finding the right gauge of wire will involve a bit of trial and error depending on the situation but changing them is a doddle. The cooupling hook is one of mine that will be available soon along with BR type instanter links.

 

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Something else that I forgot to put onto the last update was another variation in the 'find another use for Parkside PC02A sides saga'. This time it's a BR 1/040 Shocopen. The usual spec for these was corrugated steel ends but due to steel shortages in 1952 part of a batch were built with wooden ends. The sides have been deepened by 0.5mm using plasticard strip. The eagle eyed will notice the lack of door springs on the chassis. It also has the wrong type of lever guard. Thus is down to the fact that it's been pinched from a BR Shocvan for photographic purposes. It's not in the latest list but I've got one set of etches for this in my box for this weekend. If anyone wants one ask me.

 

post-13847-0-11072800-1460462384_thumb.jpg

 

Justin

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Hi Justin.

 

These are looking very good!

 

I can see what you mean, even at 50 microns 3D printing has trouble with 'fine' definition. I see Modelu offer up to 30 micron 'Super High Detail' Resolution, that might be worth a shot? I suppose it depends how much the increased expense is.

 

Likewise I've never been a fan of the coil sprung buffers, they are not soft enough for prototypical operation.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Regards

 

Matt

Edited by ClikC

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Hi Matt,

 

I'm pretty sure that Alan printed these at 30 microns. The printers he use for Modelu are great but they do strugle a little with angled flat surfaces. There's no trace of stepping on either the horizontals or verticals which is a big improvement over the squirty types like Shapeways use.

 

Hopefully this buffer springing system will be a big improvement over the coil springs and the 'softness' will be easily adjusted by chosing a different thickness spring wire.

 

Justin

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My only hands on experience is with a MakerBot Replicator, and the 'stepping' is awful with its 100 micro resolution.

 

How much 'give' do you get from the leaf springs, or is it all fairly rigid? I'm wondering if 3D printing may be viable for springing/ suspension, but my gut feeling is they would probably stress fracture over time. Although I do have a 3D printed wrist band that has a lot of flex designed into it, in order for one to put on and take off.

 

I imagine the wire thickness required will vary depending on the mass of the rolling stock being hauled. One idea (read pipe dream) I've had floating around for a while, was looking at the possibility of DCC controlled functional brake rigging in say a Mk1 BG, which may allow for a locomotive to 'buffer up' to a train, without said train then rolling away. Although, with enough mass and soft springing of the buffers, such an idea is probably a folly.

 

Regards

 

Matt

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Alan's printer is great and especially good at organic shapes. Extreme FUD from Shapeways is also pretty good. I used that for the master for the 1/801 fish van roof and it only need a little rubbing down after a couple of coats of standard Halfords rattlecan primer to get a smooth surface. I wouldn't use anything else from them though, even normal FUD.

 

I thought that about the springs this morning as I was glueing them in place. The 5 leaf felt one about right. The 6 leaf one might be ok if a little stiff and the LMS springs are perhaps too far the other way. There isn't much give in the 8 and 9 leaf versions. I've no idea how long they'd last.

 

I like the idea of having the springing on the buffers soft enough to properly space the wagons on a rake of fully fitted wagons and still have them go around 4' curves without derailing! :-) DCC brakes sounds like an interesting idea. Very handy for parking things anywhere that isn't fairly flat...

 

Justin

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Nice springs. Regarding using them as working springs, even if they are flexible enough to provide prototypical springing I think they would need to have the ability to slide through the spring/J hanger come trunnion to allow the spring to lengthen as it's arc is compressed. Even though the movement would be minuscule I think some spring freedom would be required for it to work effectively.

 

Buffer springs: Have you tried those from Alan Gibson? The spring rate is considerably softer than MJT springs and Colin now sells them without buffers in packs of 10. The Copper springs from his plunger pick ups are also very soft but larger diameter.

 

Justin, could you put one of your fish vans to one side for me, if that would be OK? I'll collect it on Sunday.

 

P

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Hi P,

 

If you tried using the prints as functional springs I would simply fit them to the axle bearings and leave the shoes free. This would give you enough movement as the arc is compressed. As you say it wouldn't be a lot.

 

Useful to know about the Alan Gibson springs as I haven't tried them. I'll try and get a set on the weekend as there are some instances where the above mechanism isn't going to fit, the fish van to start with.

 

I will gladly put one of the fish van kits aside for you. See you Sunday.

 

Justin

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Having had a snoop last night, I'm impressed with both the axlesboxes and buffer springing! 

 

One area where the buffer springing could be particularly useful (aside from personal preferences discussed above) is for oval buffers. The current mechanism still has a bit of slop (which is fine, not being aimed at oval buffer heads specifically) but the only other option I've seen is a square shank.  I havent honed the technique for drilling square holes yet though :scratchhead: .  I think this method could be fettled to suit.

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Hi Pete,

 

I agree it could be fettled to suit. The 'slop' in the bearing plates on the the buffer shanks could be tightened to prevent buffer rotation or some kind of guide built in to the same effect. I think there are numerous applications. Need to get it properly sorted for my wagon chassis before thinking about anything else though!

 

Justin 

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Nice springs. Regarding using them as working springs, even if they are flexible enough to provide prototypical springing I think they would need to have the ability to slide through the spring/J hanger come trunnion to allow the spring to lengthen as it's arc is compressed. Even though the movement would be minuscule I think some spring freedom would be required for it to work effectively.

 

Peco did try flexible rubber/plastic generic springs with their "Wonderful Wagons" decades ago, which was brave, if nothing else.

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My only hands on experience is with a MakerBot Replicator, and the 'stepping' is awful with its 100 micro resolution.

 

How much 'give' do you get from the leaf springs, or is it all fairly rigid? I'm wondering if 3D printing may be viable for springing/ suspension, but my gut feeling is they would probably stress fracture over time. Although I do have a 3D printed wrist band that has a lot of flex designed into it, in order for one to put on and take off.

 

I imagine the wire thickness required will vary depending on the mass of the rolling stock being hauled. One idea (read pipe dream) I've had floating around for a while, was looking at the possibility of DCC controlled functional brake rigging in say a Mk1 BG, which may allow for a locomotive to 'buffer up' to a train, without said train then rolling away. Although, with enough mass and soft springing of the buffers, such an idea is probably a folly.

 

Regards

 

Matt

 

As a point of reference (or that nothing is really new in this world) I recall Ted Scanell of the Central London Area Group demonstrating working brakes on a coach several years ago.  I'm pretty sure that it pre-dated the use of DCC.

 

The brakes were held on using memory wire.  As you probably know, when a current is passed through it, it contracts.  That pulled the brakes off, and away down the slight gradient the coach rolled  :-)

 

I'm sure that some combination of AC currents and rectifiers was involved, as it was perfectly possible to run this coach as part of a rake behind a locomotive.  It was probably a BR Mk.1 as well!

 

Cheers

Flymo

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