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StuartM

An Asymetrical double outside slip in 2mm

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I think I'd call that a single outside slip, but what's in a name.....(0.42mm Mullie :smile_mini2: )

 

Martin,

You may like to know that because you kindly provided the video clip earlier on, I ended up downloading the TDV and have to say that for some reason it seems far easier to use, so much so that I've finally been able to draw a single and a double slip; perhaps it's because now I've spent some time making pointwork, the termanology seems to make more sense?, I don't know, but I can knock up a single slip in under 10mins now which makes me a very happy bunny and leaves me excited at the prospect of all that complicated pointwork just waiting to be built, so many thanks for taking the time to post the clip.

Rgds,

Stuart

 

Don,

Your method sounds far to complicated for me, mechanical switchs coupled to other moving parts, recipe for unreliabilty to my mind, give me a programmable cip and a relay any day :)

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I ended up downloading the TDV and have to say that for some reason it seems far easier to use, so much so that I've finally been able to draw a single and a double slip; perhaps it's because now I've spent some time making pointwork, the termanology seems to make more sense?

 

Hi Stuart,

 

I'm glad that you are now finding Templot useful. smile.gif

 

I have just this afternoon updated the TDV version, so you will need to download it again. Sorry about that. The download is at:

 

http://85a.co.uk/for...500&forum_id=18

 

regards,

 

Martin.

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Hi Don,

 

The only known picture of a semi-outside slip is this one:

 

http://www.scalefour...s/mrc09-04.html

 

One switch (set of points) is inside the diamond, and the other switch is outside the diamond. Stuart's example has both switches outside the diamond for each slip road, so it's not a semi-outside slip, it's a full outside slip.

 

If both rails are outside the diamond it is not usually called a slip road, it is more often known as as a scissors.

 

The PWI handbook "British Railway Track - Design, Construction and Maintenance" says:

 

"A flatter radius can be obtained for the slip roads than is obtained by the standard Single or Double Slips layouts by placing the switches outside the diamond, and the layout is then known as Outside Slips, which have to be specially designed and manufactured. The further the switches are from the common crossing of the diamond, so the flatter will be the radius of the slip road, but in all outside slip layouts, each slip road requires two common crossings in addition to those required for the diamond."

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

Martin I am sure you have more knowledge of this than me so I accept your definition of a semi outside slip. However I am not alone in calling those with the switches outside but the rail inside a semi outside slip. Perhaps in earlier days the name was applied more loosely. However the examples I have seen would never be called a scissors crossover. With the scissors the principle routes usually straight are the those not through the diamond.When a train crosses over it is diverted through the diamond to the other route. That is not the case with the picture you show even if the rails were completely outside the diamond.

Don

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Don,

 

You could try thinking about it from the other direction. If you take a scissors crossing on parallel lines with a 6'6" separation between the inner rails, how far can you push them inwards before one or more rail needs to overlap, or lie within, the diamond? I think you'll find that for all practical cases it isn't very far. Now imagine that, rather than being parallel, the lines diverge at either end. In my, albeit limited, understanding, this formation is far from common but would still be a scissors crossing.

 

Nick

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Don,

 

You could try thinking about it from the other direction. If you take a scissors crossing on parallel lines with a 6'6" separation between the inner rails, how far can you push them inwards before one or more rail needs to overlap, or lie within, the diamond? I think you'll find that for all practical cases it isn't very far. Now imagine that, rather than being parallel, the lines diverge at either end. In my, albeit limited, understanding, this formation is far from common but would still be a scissors crossing.

 

Nick

 

You are missing part of my argument the usuage is not the same with a scissors trains can run through both main lines unless there is a need to crossover. This determines the signalling and the control. The type I am referring to is normally in a goods yard and you would not expect both routes to be in use at once. However I may be incorrect and railwaymen could refer to these as scissors perhaps Beast or the Stationmaster could advise.

Don

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Don,

 

I too could be wrong but I don't think I'm missing anything. Signalling is irrelevant as it depends on the context and there is more than one way to operate a double slip of either type. David Smith's GWR Switch and Crossing Practice confirms the descriptions given by Martin and others. GWR terminology is different, conventional slips are called 'compounds' and outside slips are called 'diamonds with outside slips'. There is no mention of any formation between these and scissors crossings, though there is also no mention of what Martin has describe as a "semi-outside slip". I think perhaps the only thing missing here is some evidence for your claim that

However I am not alone in calling those with the switches outside but the rail inside a semi outside slip.

 

Nick

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though there is also no mention of what Martin has described as a "semi-outside slip"

 

Hi Nick, Don,

 

That's probably because the photo in my link is the only known example of such a thing. Unless anyone knows otherwise? smile.gif

 

Track-speak around the world varies a lot, so let's not get into too much of an argument about it. It just gets a bit confusing for beginners if we don't all use the same terms. My understanding and usage is summed up in this diagram:

 

2_200610_240000000.png

 

In both cases the switch deflections can be set so that the main road is across the diamond, or so that the main road is along the side road. The latter is not so common in the case of an outside slip, although it does depend on the curving through the formation and which road is the running line.

 

In both cases you can have another side road on the opposite side.

 

In the case of the outside slip it then becomes a Double Outside Slip (in which case the main roads are always across the diamond and the switch deflections are to the slip roads).

 

In the case of the half-scissors it then becomes a Full Scissors, and if straightened out with the side roads as the running lines, it becomes a Scissors Crossover.

 

A half-scissors is unusual in yards and sidings because it takes a lot more space as you can see, without saving anything on components.

 

It would be possible to have an outside slip on one side and a half-scissors on the other side, although I can't recall ever seeing such a thing.

 

Double outside slips are not common in the UK, but are used in Germany and elsewhere in the world. This is 3ft-6in gauge in Cape Town, South Africa:

 

2_171702_590000000.jpg

Thanks to John Lewis for the pic.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

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1 rivet, 2 rivets, 3 rivets 4 etc

Building more track, Stuart? I hadn't realised you could use the ply and rivet method in 2mm.

 

Nick

 

ps. apologies for my small part in the terminological diversion...

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ps. apologies for my small part in the terminological diversion...

Yes, but I started it!

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Change of track plan,

My original idea just didn’t fit in the space I have available so I've had to come up with a new plan which is actually better than the first one so it was worth the week of playing around with templates and track to get it right.

 

The plan includes a three-way turnout which seems to be all the rage at them moment; I have no idea what my three-way is called but I presume it's not "asymmetrical". I'd call it a three-way left hand turnout but I'm sure others will correct me.

You'll notice there is a Templot template by the third exit, this was the route of the oridginal exit but it turned out to be far to sharp a curve for the converted class 04 to get round so I ended up rebuilding the turnout so the exit curves were more gentle

I've tried to use easitrack chairs as much as possible and I'm quite pleased with the result.

 

The idea has evolved so that the model will be of a signalling works.

post-10866-0-52642600-1328468655_thumb.jpg

post-10866-0-00418300-1328468679_thumb.jpg

post-10866-0-45141700-1328468684_thumb.jpg

post-10866-0-90618000-1328468692_thumb.jpg

post-10866-0-18374100-1328468697_thumb.jpg

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WOW!

 

Seriously impressive trackwork (as always) Stuart! I like the idea of how you used a mix of easitrack chairs along with etched ones, do the plastic chairs stick ok to the PCB?

 

M :)

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WOW!

 

Seriously impressive trackwork (as always) Stuart! I like the idea of how you used a mix of easitrack chairs along with etched ones, do the plastic chairs stick ok to the PCB?

 

M :)

Thanks

I'm still riding the learning curve but I learn something with each new turnout.

The easitrack chairs stick to the pcb sleepers no problem using super glue.

It's the solders that hold the rails inplace, the easitrack chairs are all left loose until everything is completed and proven to work, then and only then do I glue them in place

Rgds,

StuartM

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I have no idea what my three-way is called

 

Hi Stuart,

 

That's a Type 2 tandem turnout. smile.gif

 

Type 2 tandems have the second switch in the turnout road of the first switch. (Type 1 tandems have the second switch in the main road of the first switch.)

 

It's an impressive piece of work in 2mm scale. Unfortunately you have missed out one of the check rails, and another one needs to be a bit longer, like this:

 

post-1103-0-14938200-1328472801.jpg

 

The check rails are important in sharply curved pointwork, otherwise there is a real risk that the wheel flanges will hit the nose of the vee.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

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Hi Martin,

Thanks for the name and the advice

Your right about the check rails. I hadn't noticed (obviously)

The loco and the wagons seem to run through the pointwork perfectly ok, but of course now you've pointed it out it's going to knor away now until I add them.

Below is another photo from straight above which makes the mistakes more obvious.

Rgds,

StuartM

post-10866-0-40008800-1328475248_thumb.jpg

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Hi Stuart,

 

Here are some pics of a type 2 tandem turnout at Beverley.

 

Pictures kindly supplied by Mick Nicholson.

 

beverley_tandem1.jpg

 

 

beverley_tandem2.jpg

 

 

beverley_tandem3.jpg

 

Thanks Mick. thumb_smiley.gif

 

regards,

 

Martin.

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Thanks Martin,

Yet more inspiration which also proves your point re the check rails.

I must try harder :training:

I seem to remember seeing a photo of a tandem turnout on the surburban side of Kings Cross at some stage.

Rgds,

Stuart

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HI..

 

Great work, wish I could build track work as good..

 

Also, I would change the x crossing to a single slip and remove the point just before the bridge..

 

Stuart-AU

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Interesting track plan Stuart.

 

I like the mix of high level and low level stuff - presume you will use the 4 track mainline as a static display of rolling stock?

 

It reminds me a tad of the excellent exhibition layout Anderstaffe Yard with the line appearing from beneath.

 

One question...will you have enough length in the fiddleyard spur for your train lengths? Might be worth making that a 'plug in' cassette which can overhang to increase the length a tad and the cassettes stored beneath the high level embankment lines? Just a thought.

 

By the way...fab trackmaking... :yes:

Edited by bcnPete

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Checkrails perfect or not, that tandem really looks the dog's n*ts from an oblique angle with the Easitrac chairs in place. Fantastic.

 

Can't wait to see the control logic you do for this lot!

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The track plan isn't to scale so a bit misleading, the headshunt and turn round loops have been planned (and measured ) to accomadate 1 class 04 and either 2 bogie flats or 4 4wheel trucks/vans. the idea being that there will have to be much shunting to break and make each trainload, but then as this is being made soley for the purposes of watching my 04 shunt trucks the more manouvors the better.

 

The mainline tracks will be static to start with, however the intention is to build this layout as a module that will become part of a bigger layout over time as I build more modules; each module incorporating all thoses things I've dreamed of having on a layout, so I hope to have full length trains running on them at sometime.

 

The control circuit will be the same on my 2011 challenge entry except this time I think I might try and incorporate some additional components and coding that will allow the layout to operate automatically so I can just sit back and watch if I feel like it.

 

By the way Pete, congrates on the placement in the 2011 challenge

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The latest photo showing the corrected check rails

post-10866-0-41690000-1328565873_thumb.jpg

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Many thanks Stuart...

 

Thanks to expand on the layout plans futher - like the module idea too :yes:

 

On your diorama model I liked the difference in height between the depot and running lines - it made for some very dramatic photos and I can imagine the same on this layout too.

 

I look forward to seeing this progress.

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Many thanks Stuart...

 

Thanks to expand on the layout plans futher - like the module idea too :yes:

 

On your diorama model I liked the difference in height between the depot and running lines - it made for some very dramatic photos and I can imagine the same on this layout too.

 

I look forward to seeing this progress.

Thanks Pete,

Different levels make a more interesting model imho; look at your Moreswell viaduct, just two lengths of track and a bridge but very effective.

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Some more photos while I had the camera out

post-10866-0-93395900-1328567104_thumb.jpg

post-10866-0-67845900-1328567124_thumb.jpg

post-10866-0-44306300-1328567131_thumb.jpg

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